Mary as co-redemtrix

[anonymous_in_fl]

My 2 cents:

I am a convert to the Catholic faith from the Baptist church---- converted over 20 yrs ago.

I believe and understand in the Catholic way about Mary being “co-redemptrix”; however, I have been saying for the last 20 yrs "I wish they could give this concept a different title or translation with out using the prefix ‘co’ ".

In English it usually means “equal with”, and yes many Protestants get stuck right there and can’t get past it.

Just my opinion.

 

[rfournier103]

My 2 cents:

I am a convert to the Catholic faith from the Baptist church---- converted over 20 yrs ago.

I believe and understand in the Catholic way about Mary being “co-redemptrix”; however, I have been saying for the last 20 yrs "I wish they could give this concept a different title or translation with out using the prefix ‘co’ ".

In English it usually means “equal with”, and yes many Protestants get stuck right there and can’t get past it.

Just my opinion.

Lifelong Catholic here… I agree with you 1,000%. There should be a clarification, or different title.

 

[Falco]

Lifelong Catholic here… I agree with you 1,000%. There should be a clarification, or different title.

I so agree - if the English translation of the Latin title for Mary is liable to be misconstrued, it should be replaced.

To me, in English, it is like saying Mozart’s mother was a co-composer of her son’s music, or Mother Theresa’s mother is a co-saint for giving birth to her. if being the mother of a remarkable person gives you a stake in their achievements in life, then Jack the Ripper’s mother should be held responsible for his murders, Albert Einstein’s mother should receive his accolades, Mrs Obama should be helping run the country.

There is no denying that Mary is the most important totally human person who ever lived, but she was a willing instrument in giving life to Jesus. She could not have done it without God the Father, no matter how much she might have wanted to.

Co - redemptrix - a female redeemer alongside and working with Jesus - really??? I cannot accept that. Revere Mary for what she was - the holy virgin who gave her fiat, gave birth to Him, raised Him, cared for Him, and watched Him die. And played a part in the birth of His Church. What could be more important than that? An amazing woman.

 

[simple_soul]

The way I am beginning to see Mary’s role in our salvation more clearly is to relook at the story of creation. Eve was created to be Adam’s helper. It was from Adam that she was created. Since Our Blessed Mother Mary is refered to as the New Eve I take it that she helps Jesus the way Eve was supposed to help Adam. She was made pure and holy and imaculate through Jesus’ sacrifice of Himself. The more I learn about the story of Adam and Eve the more I am understanding the more I am understanding the role of Jesus and Mary. My thoughts are just still kind of spinning around in my head In a way I beleive this and a couple of other thoughts are helping me to understand better the titles of co-redemtrix and mediatrix. Just don’t quite have them all together yet. Still working on that I guess. Anyway, just I thought I would add them to the discussion to see if it helps or maybe get some help putting them all together.

 

[Miriam1947]

The Pope on Co-redemptrix 
“Yet when asked, in a 2000 interview by Peter Seewald contained in the book God and the World, whether the Church would go along with the desire to solemnly define Mary as Co-redemptrix, Ratzinger’s response doesn’t look good.
He says that the title Co-redemptrix “departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings” (53). He also says that “for matters of faith, continuity of terminology with the language of Scripture and that of the Fathers is itself an essential element; it is improper simply to manipulate language” (54). “
From Mark Shea’s blog:
Another title sometimes used to honor Mary is “Co-Redemptrix.” It’s not an “official title.” It’s just an expression of piety among some Catholics. And it affords a fairly typical example of the way in which the Church mulls things over for long time (usually centuries) before it makes any hard and fast decisions. At present, the Church doesn’t condemn the title, but it doesn’t encourage it either. A few years ago, Pope Benedict XVI (then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger) was asked about the many petitions Rome has received asking that Mary be formally declared “Co-Redemptrix.” He replied:
“I do not think there will be any compliance with this demand, which in the meantime is being supported by several million people, within the foreseeable future. The response of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is, broadly, that what is signified by this is already better expressed in other titles of Mary, while the formula “Co-redemptrix” departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings. … A correct intention is being expressed in the wrong way. For matters of faith, continuity of terminology with the language of Scripture and that of the Fathers is itself an essential element; it is improper simply to manipulate language.”
So does this mean the Church condemns those who honor her by this title? No. It just means that Pope Benedict is (rightly) worried non-Catholics will not understand the “correct intention” behind the title. So the title remains, for the foreseeable future, something Catholics may use if it matters to them (providing they rightly understand what it means) but it’s not something one finds in the Church’s liturgy or dogma.

Read more: ncregister.com/blog/jittery-about-mary/#ixzz1djmLpVYa

 

[R_C]

That is not the Pope. That is Cardinal Ratzinger. He also wrote that the title is “under the protection of papal teaching.”

 

[Goya]

I posted this earlier in another thread–but it works in this one just as well. perhaps even better.

Coredemptrix in the early Church

Mary’s coredemptive role with our Lord in the work of redemption emerges as an important theme in the early Church, beginning with Sts. Justin and Irenaeus in the second century. They used the image of the “New Adam” (Jesus) and the “New Eve” (Mary): The life of grace that the first Adam and the first Eve had jointly lost for mankind, was jointly restored by the New Adam and the New Eve. The virgin Eve, through her disobedience to the Father, interiorly cooperated with Adam in the sin that lost the life of grace for the human family (cf. Gen 3:6); the Virgin Mary, in her obedience to the Father (cf. Lk 1:38), interiorly cooperated with Jesus Christ, the New Adam, in the salvation of the human family through his redemption. Mary’s unequaled participation in the redemption of the human race as the New Eve was the universal Christian teaching in the early Church. In fact, the great Patristic scholar, John Henry Newman, said that “by the time of St. Jerome (331-420), the contrast between Eve and Mary had almost passed into a proverb.” St. Jerome had remarked: “Per Evam mors, per Mariam vita” (“Death through Eve, Life through Mary”).

Mediatrix in the early Church

By the fourth century, the Church Fathers manifested a profound understanding of Mary’s function as Mediatrix. In reference to the Blessed Virgin, St. Ephraem (373) said: “With the Mediator, you are the Mediatrix of the entire world” (S. Ephraem, Syri opera graeca et latine, ed., Assemani, v. 3, Romae, pp. 525, 528-9, 532). St. Cyril of Alexandria, in one of the greatest Marian sermons of antiquity, said: “Hail Mary Theotokos, venerable treasure of the whole world…it is you through whom the Holy Trinity is glorified and adored,…through whom the tempter, the devil is cast down from heaven, through whom the fallen creature is raised up to heaven, through whom all creation, once imprisoned by idolatry, has reached knowledge of the truth, through whom holy baptism has come to believers…through whom nations are brought to repentance….” (Hom. in Deiparam, PG 65, p.681). Antipater of Bostra, another Father of the Council of Ephesus (AD 431), wrote: “Hail you who acceptably intercede as a Mediatrix for mankind

…

Assembled by Dr. Mark Miravalle

fifthmariandogma.com/apologetics/faq/faq-2-church-fathers/

 

[CJECulver]

if the English translation of the Latin title for Mary is liable to be misconstrued…

Look folks. It’s simple.

“Co-redemptrix” is Latin. It is not an English translation.

If co-redemptrix is an English translation of a Latin title then what, pray tell, is the title in Latin?

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Love seeing mention of superb, world class scholar Dr. Mark Miravalle of Franciscan U of Steubenville.

According to a book on Mary he notes the word redemption = rede mer (spelling) to “buy back”. Mary helps to BUY BACK humanity by her FIAT, her YES.

Where would Jesus be without that “YES”?.. Mary, Help of Christians, helps her Son to buy us back. She gave Him His body did she not?

She is also a typology for the Church who assists Christ in buying us back.

 

[zippity]

You can talk in circles, as all above, about what Mary is. I agree that is what she is. But you cannot call her co-redemptrix, as she is not that. That title does not represent what she is. It misrepresents her to the eyes of the world.

I so agree. I will never call her co-redemtrix.

 

[zippity]

The Pope on Co-redemptrix 
“Yet when asked, in a 2000 interview by Peter Seewald contained in the book God and the World, whether the Church would go along with the desire to solemnly define Mary as Co-redemptrix, Ratzinger’s response doesn’t look good.
He says that the title Co-redemptrix “departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings” (53). He also says that “for matters of faith, continuity of terminology with the language of Scripture and that of the Fathers is itself an essential element; it is improper simply to manipulate language” (54). “
From Mark Shea’s blog:
Another title sometimes used to honor Mary is “Co-Redemptrix.” It’s not an “official title.” It’s just an expression of piety among some Catholics. And it affords a fairly typical example of the way in which the Church mulls things over for long time (usually centuries) before it makes any hard and fast decisions. At present, the Church doesn’t condemn the title, but it doesn’t encourage it either. A few years ago, Pope Benedict XVI (then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger) was asked about the many petitions Rome has received asking that Mary be formally declared “Co-Redemptrix.” He replied:
“I do not think there will be any compliance with this demand, which in the meantime is being supported by several million people, within the foreseeable future. The response of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is, broadly, that what is signified by this is already better expressed in other titles of Mary, while the formula “Co-redemptrix” departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings. … A correct intention is being expressed in the wrong way. For matters of faith, continuity of terminology with the language of Scripture and that of the Fathers is itself an essential element; it is improper simply to manipulate language.”
So does this mean the Church condemns those who honor her by this title? No. It just means that Pope Benedict is (rightly) worried non-Catholics will not understand the “correct intention” behind the title. So the title remains, for the foreseeable future, something Catholics may use if it matters to them (providing they rightly understand what it means) but it’s not something one finds in the Church’s liturgy or dogma.

Read more: ncregister.com/blog/jittery-about-mary/#ixzz1djmLpVYa

Thank you for your post and link.