Mary as Eve.

[mungodog]

Hi all, this is my 1st post so here goes…,
I am a practicing Anglican who am finding myself increasingly drawn to the RCC. I have been attending RCIA at my local parish for 4 yrs now and despite all the ups and downs of considering conversion (and prayer!), I felt that the answer I’d been waiting for was revealed to me at Mass on 2nd sunday of Easter. As a result, I intend to 'cross the Tiber next Easter.
My wife is also Anglican and will remain so, but she is of the opinion that ‘I have to do what is right for me’, in fact, as a result of this process, we have both deepened our faith and discipleship, and of course, will continue to encourage that although our paths might differ slightly!
I have read a lot of Scott Hahn’s books, (which I really like), and am currently his book, ‘Hail Holy Queen’. about the virgin Mary from a biblical perspective.
As a result, I understand her role now ; as our mother/mother of God/Queen mother/the new Eve and ark of the New Covenant, (plus I also like praying the Holy Rosary).
However…, I am stuck on an argument Scott puts forward in Ch2… he relates the point where hanging on the cross Jesus calls his mother ‘woman’, to Gen 2:23 where 'woman is the name Adam gives to Eve. He then states that, “Jesus, then, is addressing Mary as Eve to the New Adam”.
I get this point as it stands, but, does not Christ call the ’ woman at the well ’ woman too? and what about His address to Mary Magdelene , whom he also calls ’ woman ’ at the Resurrection? I seem to be stuck on this!
Can anyone help?
I know it’s not a major stumbling block, but its just niggling at me!
Blessings

Stuart.

 

[Gorgias]

I get this point as it stands, but, does not Christ call the ’ woman at the well ’ woman too? and what about His address to Mary Magdelene , whom he also calls ’ woman ’ at the Resurrection? I seem to be stuck on this!
Can anyone help?

Stuart,

I don’t think that Hahn is attempting to claim that the only usage of the word “woman” (even in the context of Scripture) is as a referent to ‘Eve’. However, I think I would suggest that, in this particular case, Hahn sees the use of this form of address as hearkening back to the way that Adam addressed Eve.

It’s an interpretative stance, and is open to discussion and debate. That being said, I think it’s simply pointing to one particular instance of the use of the word, and relating it to one other instance, rather than making an absolute claim about the word itself.

 

[friardchips]

Hi all, this is my 1st post so here goes…,
I am a practicing Anglican who am finding myself increasingly drawn to the RCC. I have been attending RCIA at my local parish for 4 yrs now and despite all the ups and downs of considering conversion (and prayer!), I felt that the answer I’d been waiting for was revealed to me at Mass on 2nd sunday of Easter. As a result, I intend to 'cross the Tiber next Easter.
My wife is also Anglican and will remain so, but she is of the opinion that ‘I have to do what is right for me’, in fact, as a result of this process, we have both deepened our faith and discipleship, and of course, will continue to encourage that although our paths might differ slightly!
I have read a lot of Scott Hahn’s books, (which I really like), and am currently his book, ‘Hail Holy Queen’. about the virgin Mary from a biblical perspective.
As a result, I understand her role now ; as our mother/mother of God/Queen mother/the new Eve and ark of the New Covenant, (plus I also like praying the Holy Rosary).
However…, I am stuck on an argument Scott puts forward in Ch2… he relates the point where hanging on the cross Jesus calls his mother ‘woman’, to Gen 2:23 where 'woman is the name Adam gives to Eve. He then states that, “Jesus, then, is addressing Mary as Eve to the New Adam”.
I get this point as it stands, but, does not Christ call the ’ woman at the well ’ woman too? and what about His address to Mary Magdelene , whom he also calls ’ woman ’ at the Resurrection? I seem to be stuck on this!
Can anyone help?
I know it’s not a major stumbling block, but its just niggling at me!
Blessings

Stuart.

Hi. The word used has to be read in context with what is being said, where it is being said, to whom it is being said, whilst in reference, and in relation to, Scripture, as a whole; all of this pertains as to why it is being said.

 

[panevino]

Hi all, this is my 1st post so here goes…,
I am a practicing Anglican who am finding myself increasingly drawn to the RCC. I have been attending RCIA at my local parish for 4 yrs now and despite all the ups and downs of considering conversion (and prayer!), I felt that the answer I’d been waiting for was revealed to me at Mass on 2nd sunday of Easter. As a result, I intend to 'cross the Tiber next Easter.
My wife is also Anglican and will remain so, but she is of the opinion that ‘I have to do what is right for me’, in fact, as a result of this process, we have both deepened our faith and discipleship, and of course, will continue to encourage that although our paths might differ slightly!
I have read a lot of Scott Hahn’s books, (which I really like), and am currently his book, ‘Hail Holy Queen’. about the virgin Mary from a biblical perspective.
As a result, I understand her role now ; as our mother/mother of God/Queen mother/the new Eve and ark of the New Covenant, (plus I also like praying the Holy Rosary).
However…, I am stuck on an argument Scott puts forward in Ch2… he relates the point where hanging on the cross Jesus calls his mother ‘woman’, to Gen 2:23 where 'woman is the name Adam gives to Eve. He then states that, “Jesus, then, is addressing Mary as Eve to the New Adam”.
I get this point as it stands, but, does not Christ call the ’ woman at the well ’ woman too? and what about His address to Mary Magdelene , whom he also calls ’ woman ’ at the Resurrection? I seem to be stuck on this!
Can anyone help?
I know it’s not a major stumbling block, but its just niggling at me!
Blessings

Stuart.

If it helps, Justin martyr and irenaeus discuss the Mary/Eve parallel

 

[spiderweb]

I would just say that the uses of “woman” at the well and to Mary Magdalene are somewhat generic. However in the context of Jesus on the cross, the word “mother” would more appropriately have been used. “Mother behold your son”. The fact that he doesn’t say “mother” but rather “woman” draws attention to it that it is more significant than just a generic usage of the word.

Eve is the mother of all the living (Gen 3:20) who can still die, but Mary is the mother of all the living who have eternal life (Rev 12:17). Thus both woman are mother of all the living but in a significantly different way.

 

[JohnR77]

I would just say that the uses of “woman” at the well and to Mary Magdalene are somewhat generic. However in the context of Jesus on the cross, the word “mother” would more appropriately have been used. “Mother behold your son”. The fact that he doesn’t say “mother” but rather “woman” draws attention to it that it is more significant than just a generic usage of the word.

Eve is the mother of all the living (Gen 3:20) who can still die, but Mary is the mother of all the living who have eternal life (Rev 12:17). Thus both woman are mother of all the living but in a significantly different way.

Exactly. Who calls his own mother “woman” ?
the unusual reference of woman is not disrespectful it just tells us that something special is going on here. Woman is an honorary title .
Mary is the new Eve

John
.

 

[JohnR77]

Mary must be the one who is the new Eve because she is the only one that qualifies.

Genesis 3:14-15
“The Lord God said to the serpent ‘… I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.’ ” RSV …

To be at enmity is for one person to be completely opposed to another. Notice that it is God who makes this woman and Satan completely opposed to each other. Also notice that it is not mankind in general or even all women, but a specific woman that God is speaking about. What God does He does perfectly, and so this opposition between the particular woman in question and Satan is perfect.

The “woman” in Genesis 3:15 cannot be a reference to Eve because she has already given herself over to Satan by sinning. The woman here is the one who’s “seed” is our Savior. She is the mother of Jesus Christ, the Blessed Virgin Mary. Mary is further identified by Jesus as the “Woman” in John 2:4

Read more at
Satan’s Number 1 Enemy
defendingthebride.com/ma2/number.html

.

 

[mungodog]

ah ha! yes of course, I get it now!
Thanks everyone for your replies.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi all, this is my 1st post so here goes…,
I am a practicing Anglican who am finding myself increasingly drawn to the RCC. I have been attending RCIA at my local parish for 4 yrs now and despite all the ups and downs of considering conversion (and prayer!), I felt that the answer I’d been waiting for was revealed to me at Mass on 2nd sunday of Easter. As a result, I intend to 'cross the Tiber next Easter.
My wife is also Anglican and will remain so, but she is of the opinion that ‘I have to do what is right for me’, in fact, as a result of this process, we have both deepened our faith and discipleship, and of course, will continue to encourage that although our paths might differ slightly!
I have read a lot of Scott Hahn’s books, (which I really like), and am currently his book, ‘Hail Holy Queen’. about the virgin Mary from a biblical perspective.
As a result, I understand her role now ; as our mother/mother of God/Queen mother/the new Eve and ark of the New Covenant, (plus I also like praying the Holy Rosary).
However…, I am stuck on an argument Scott puts forward in Ch2… he relates the point where hanging on the cross Jesus calls his mother ‘woman’, to Gen 2:23 where 'woman is the name Adam gives to Eve. He then states that, “Jesus, then, is addressing Mary as Eve to the New Adam”.
I get this point as it stands, but, does not Christ call the ’ woman at the well ’ woman too? and what about His address to Mary Magdelene , whom he also calls ’ woman ’ at the Resurrection? I seem to be stuck on this!
Can anyone help?
I know it’s not a major stumbling block, but its just niggling at me!
Blessings

Stuart.

Hi, Stuart!

Welcome Home! :extrahappy::extrahappy::extrahappy:

…yeah… what you are talking about is “type;” Catholic understanding seek and find references to Christology… it is put forth as an example not as Divine Revelation (although it is there by Inspiration so in that level it is more than just symbolic).

Here’s how I have come to understand this… the visual was first introduced by St. Paul (Christ being the New Adam–the Perfect Obedient Adam); as the Church developed the Fathers made the connection with the Virgin (Eve disobeyed Yahweh God; the Virgin gave her “fiat” in full compliance and Obedience to Yahweh God).

The “foot of the Cross” scene is important because it ties the Incarnation (Divine Conception of Christ) with Christ’s Ministry: ‘Woman, there’s your son,’ 'son, there’s your mother."

The twist comes with the Battle description in Genesis 3:15 which gets expanded in Apocalypse [Revelation] 12… and the title Woman/New Eve actually Unfolds right there in Scriptures:

17 Then the dragon was enraged with **the woman **

and went away to make war on the rest of** her children**, that is, all who obey God’s commandments and bear witness for Jesus. (Apocalypse [Revelation] 12:17)
Eve engenders all born under the penalty of the Fall (Original Sin); the Virgin, the New Eve, is the mother of all who are born of the Word Incarnate, through Faith (St. John 1:10-13).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[grannymh]

Hi all, this is my 1st post so here goes…,
I am a practicing Anglican who am finding myself increasingly drawn to the RCC. I have been attending RCIA at my local parish for 4 yrs now and despite all the ups and downs of considering conversion (and prayer!), I felt that the answer I’d been waiting for was revealed to me at Mass on 2nd sunday of Easter. As a result, I intend to 'cross the Tiber next Easter.
My wife is also Anglican and will remain so, but she is of the opinion that ‘I have to do what is right for me’, in fact, as a result of this process, we have both deepened our faith and discipleship, and of course, will continue to encourage that although our paths might differ slightly!
I have read a lot of Scott Hahn’s books, (which I really like), and am currently his book, ‘Hail Holy Queen’. about the virgin Mary from a biblical perspective.
As a result, I understand her role now ; as our mother/mother of God/Queen mother/the new Eve and ark of the New Covenant, (plus I also like praying the Holy Rosary).
However…, I am stuck on an argument Scott puts forward in Ch2… he relates the point where hanging on the cross Jesus calls his mother ‘woman’, to Gen 2:23 where 'woman is the name Adam gives to Eve. He then states that, “Jesus, then, is addressing Mary as Eve to the New Adam”.
I get this point as it stands, but, does not Christ call the ’ woman at the well ’ woman too? and what about His address to Mary Magdelene , whom he also calls ’ woman ’ at the Resurrection? I seem to be stuck on this!
Can anyone help?
I know it’s not a major stumbling block, but its just niggling at me!
Blessings

Stuart.

It is a very interesting stumbling block.

One of the ways to look at Adam’s “wow!” in Genesis 2: 23 is that Eve has the same human nature as Adam. This makes Genesis 1: 28 possible and it also assures us that Genesis 1: 27 is meant for every human man and every human woman. The woman at the well, one of my favorites, has the same nature as Adam. God loved that nature. John 3: 16-17.

We may think our husband is a Neanderthal, but he is not.