Mary as having authority as the "Queen Mother"?

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Someone–and I have no idea who–was doing a discussion on the role of Mary in the RCC as having a special place in the Kingdom and a special degree of authority vis’a’vis her Son based on the Old Testament role of the Queen Mother. Caught only a fragment of the discussion. Don’t even know what program the speaker was on–might’ve been Catholic Answers, might not have been. (I do a lot of my radio listening at work–between the tasks I’m actually getting paid to perform–so I often catch only bits-and-pieces of programs).

It sounds like an interesting and rather fresh approach to the role of Mary, but I have no idea how to begn looking for information on this so that I could find out who the speaker was–it was a guy, which narrows it down only slightly–whether he has a book on the topic, etcetera. Any suggestions or ideas as to who I’m looking for? Thanks!
 
Mary is the Queen of Heaven and Earth as described in Rev 12:1. Considering that her son is the King of Kings, it makes sense that she would be the Queen Mother. Also, it is fascinating to see the role of the queen mother throughout the Old Testament, especially during the time of the kings from 1-2 Samuel, 1-2 Kings, and paralled in 1-2 Chronicles. Her real power and importance (people went to see the queen mother for special favors from the king, she was not a figurehead) tells us some things about what we should expect that God equipped Mary with.

Also, I know there are those out these who say that the woman in Rev 12:1 is symbolic; this is not possible to do with an open mind while reading all of Rev 11-12, as Jesus and Satan are both described as individuals. John Martignone explains this very well in his apologetics CD “Mary and Purgatory” at www.biblechristiansociety.com
 
I meant to tell you also, the Biblical queen mother perpective was something I learned from taking Jeff Cavin’s “Great Adventure” Bible study. It is not uncommon to find portions of this Bible study aired on Catholic radio, so perhaps this is what you heard?
 
mpernot said:
Mary is the Queen of Heaven and Earth as described in Rev 12:1. Considering that her son is the King of Kings, it makes sense that she would be the Queen Mother. Also, it is fascinating to see the role of the queen mother throughout the Old Testament, especially during the time of the kings from 1-2 Samuel, 1-2 Kings, and paralled in 1-2 Chronicles. Her real power and importance (people went to see the queen mother for special favors from the king, she was not a figurehead) tells us some things about what we should expect that God equipped Mary with.

Also, I know there are those out these who say that the woman in Rev 12:1 is symbolic; this is not possible to do with an open mind while reading all of Rev 11-12, as Jesus and Satan are both described as individuals. John Martignone explains this very well in his apologetics CD “Mary and Purgatory” at www.biblechristiansociety.com
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Hi:

A lot of this is a distraction from the question I actually asked. Suffice it to say that Protestants historically understand the woman in Revelation 12 to be Israel and the Church simultaneously. The images of Israel as a woman are consonant with how the OT prophetic literature depicted the nation; and all Christians are familiar with the images from St. Paul of the Church as the Bride of Christ. This issue has been thrashed out previously on this forum.

I would ask if anyone is familiar with the broadcast I overheard pieces of and if they know who the speaker was? Thanks!
 
flameburns623 said:
Someone–and I have no idea who–was doing a discussion on the role of Mary in the RCC as having a special place in the Kingdom and a special degree of authority vis’a’vis her Son based on the Old Testament role of the Queen Mother. Caught only a fragment of the discussion. Don’t even know what program the speaker was on–might’ve been Catholic Answers, might not have been. (I do a lot of my radio listening at work–between the tasks I’m actually getting paid to perform–so I often catch only bits-and-pieces of programs).

It sounds like an interesting and rather fresh approach to the role of Mary, but I have no idea how to begn looking for information on this so that I could find out who the speaker was–it was a guy, which narrows it down only slightly–whether he has a book on the topic, etcetera. Any suggestions or ideas as to who I’m looking for? Thanks!
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You must’ve heard from the book “Hail Holy Queen” by Scott Hahn - a convert to Catholicism?
 
flameburns623 said:
A lot of this is a distraction from the question I actually asked.
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I wrote a second post regarding a Bible study that I have heard on Catholic radio as a possible source (you mentioned Catholic Answers). I meant to include this in the first post, so I apologize for that.

You introduced the topic as though it was something you had never heard before, and that was why I went into Rev 12:1 (the Queen of Heaven and this verse are very much related, so I felt it germaine to the discussion). I have heard the explanation of it that you gave. I don’t agree with it but now understand the intent of your post so I’ll save that for another time.
 
mpernot said:
Mary is the Queen of Heaven and Earth as described in Rev 12:1. Considering that her son is the King of Kings, it makes sense that she would be the Queen Mother. Also, it is fascinating to see the role of the queen mother throughout the Old Testament, especially during the time of the kings from 1-2 Samuel, 1-2 Kings, and paralled in 1-2 Chronicles. Her real power and importance (people went to see the queen mother for special favors from the king, she was not a figurehead) tells us some things about what we should expect that God equipped Mary with.

Also, I know there are those out these who say that the woman in Rev 12:1 is symbolic; this is not possible to do with an open mind while reading all of Rev 11-12, as Jesus and Satan are both described as individuals. John Martignone explains this very well in his apologetics CD “Mary and Purgatory” at www.biblechristiansociety.com
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Read Scripture, don’t read into Scripture. Mary is not the queen of Heaven. Mary does not have any authoritative role in our Salvation or otherwise. Mary is not the purest realization of the faith. Jesus Christ is. He is the author and finisher of life. Mary played a very blessed role and she is to be honored for it, but she does not have superhuman characteristics and does not play a part in our Salvation. Jesus said, “I am the way the truth and the life and no one shall go onto the Father except through me.”
 
Let’s not derail this thread into another endless debate about the Queenship of Mary. Stick to the original question.

Maybe it was one of these guys.

Your sister in Christ,

Ruthie
 
flameburns623 said:
Someone–and I have no idea who–was doing a discussion on the role of Mary in the RCC as having a special place in the Kingdom and a special degree of authority vis’a’vis her Son based on the Old Testament role of the Queen Mother. Caught only a fragment of the discussion. Don’t even know what program the speaker was on–might’ve been Catholic Answers, might not have been. (I do a lot of my radio listening at work–between the tasks I’m actually getting paid to perform–so I often catch only bits-and-pieces of programs).

It sounds like an interesting and rather fresh approach to the role of Mary, but I have no idea how to begn looking for information on this so that I could find out who the speaker was–it was a guy, which narrows it down only slightly–whether he has a book on the topic, etcetera. Any suggestions or ideas as to who I’m looking for? Thanks!
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Hello,

I don’t know who you are looking for, but here is something interesting from St. Thomoas Aquinas.

For St. Thomas, the figure of Judith was a type of Mary who in bringing forth Christ restored God’s people “to their original innocence” and that what was said of Judith, “Thou art the glory of Jerusalem, thou art the honor of our people,” really refers to Mary.
Judith 13:18 - Then Uzziah said, “Judith, my dear, the Most high God has blessed you more than any other woman on earth. How worthy of praise is the Lord God who created heaven and earth! He guided you as you cut off the head of our deadliest enemy.”
Judith 15:9 - When they arrived, they all praised her [Judith], “You are Jerusalem’s crowning glory, the heroine of Israel, the pride and joy of our people!”

udayton.edu/mary/meditations/thomasaquinas.html

Esther is another Marian typology for St. Thomas. Through queen Esther, that is, through the Blessed Virgin the sentence of damnation passed against us was revoked; namely through her intercession. Queen Esther, that is the Blessed Virgin, pleased the eyes of the King in helping to redeem the human race and she found favor in his presence, not only for herself, but for all mankind.
Esther (Greek) 8:3,7-8 - Then Esther spoke to the king again, throwing herself at this feet. She begged him to do something to stop the evil plot that Haman had made against the Jews. Then the King said to Esther, “I have hanged Haman for his ploy against the Jews, and I have given you his property. If that is not enough, you may write to the Jews whatever you like; and you may write it in my name and stamp it with the royal seal, for a proclamation issued in the king’s name and stamped with the royal seal cannot be revoked.”

udayton.edu/mary/meditations/thomasaquinas.html

I hope those links help.
 
The best thing to do is search through their archives to find a related talk on Mary as our Queen Mother.
 
flameburns623 said:
Someone–and I have no idea who–was doing a discussion on the role of Mary in the RCC as having a special place in the Kingdom and a special degree of authority vis’a’vis her Son based on the Old Testament role of the Queen Mother. Caught only a fragment of the discussion. Don’t even know what program the speaker was on–might’ve been Catholic Answers, might not have been. (I do a lot of my radio listening at work–between the tasks I’m actually getting paid to perform–so I often catch only bits-and-pieces of programs).

It sounds like an interesting and rather fresh approach to the role of Mary, but I have no idea how to begn looking for information on this so that I could find out who the speaker was–it was a guy, which narrows it down only slightly–whether he has a book on the topic, etcetera. Any suggestions or ideas as to who I’m looking for? Thanks!
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My guess is that it was Scott Hahn. He has a set of talks (originally on EWTN) and a book of the same title “Hail, Holy Queen”. Here’s the mp3:
catholicaudio.blogspot.com/2007/10/scott-hahn-hail-holy-queen.html

I really like Dr. Hahn. If he has a topic on something that you are curious about, chances are he’ll help you to understand it much better.
 
Again, my honest intent was to offer a suggestion to the OP’s question. My intent was not to derail the thread, so if my suggestion is not what was being sought then I apologize and will leave it at that
SIA said:
Read Scripture, don’t read into Scripture.
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Why, because you said so? We’re supposed to, with the guidance of the church, look to find the message that God is revealing to us in Scripture. You will miss a lot if you interpret everything literally.

And I think, if you’re honest with yourself, you don’t actually believe what you wrote there anyway. I’ll bet you have your own interpretation of Scripture that you had to “read into”. There’s nothing in my interpretation that’s counter to Scripture or the Church, you just don’t agree with it.

Not a slam on your view, just a defense of mine. PM me if you want to discuss more so that we don’t take any more away from this thread.
 
Mary is just another woman in heaven, there is nothing scriptural saying she is anything more. Revelation 12 doesnt even point to that because the dragon came from the same place and had seven crowns on his head she only had one and that was a crown with 12 twelve stars on her head. By catholic definition we should be worshipping that dragon because he’s crowned better, but thats not the case. The worse thing that a person can do is say that their interpretation of Revelation is the right one, its no different that the rabbi’s during NT time saying that the messiah has not come because he did not come as a ruler.
 
FollowTheWay said:
Mary is just another woman in heaven, there is nothing scriptural saying she is anything more. Revelation 12 doesnt even point to that because the dragon came from the same place and had seven crowns on his head she only had one and that was a crown with 12 twelve stars on her head. By catholic definition we should be worshipping that dragon because he’s crowned better, but thats not the case. The worse thing that a person can do is say that their interpretation of Revelation is the right one, its no different that the rabbi’s during NT time saying that the messiah has not come because he did not come as a ruler.
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The Catholic belief is not just based on Revelations. Catholics believe Mary to be the mother of the King - and in Davidic times, that would make her Queen.
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
The Catholic belief is not just based on Revelations. Catholics believe Mary to be the mother of the King - and in Davidic times, that would make her Queen.
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Thank you, this is what I was saying way back in post 3 (sorry if it was unclear, I admitted I meant to switch the order of posts 2 & 3). I suggested Jeff Cavin’s Great Adventure Bible study because he goes over this very thing midway through it; plus segments are aired on Catholic radio every now and then, to the OP’s question. I mentioned Rev 12 because it supports this Old Testament relationship between King and Queen Mother, not because I felt like creating controversy or felt that it was the “most important” verse.

Giving the honor that is befitting the mother of God (and imitating Jesus by doing so, as He did the same) is not equivalent to worship. God is free to bestow any power on Mary as He wishes, regardless of anyone’s personal biases against her:

Luke 1:37 - Because no word shall be impossible with God.
 
Jesus was not born in Davidic times, sorry to break the news to you. Also under these circumstances Mary would have to be divine, but Jesus’s brother was not divine in fact he turned from Jesus at first, after all she gave birth to him.
 
FollowTheWay said:
Jesus was not born in Davidic times, sorry to break the news to you.
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Sorry to break the news to you, but this is irrelevant. Does this mean that you believe that all the prophecies/parallels from Davidic times that Jesus fulfilled are irrelevant? The Old Testament reveals the New Testament. When Jesus quoted the psalm that David wrote (Psalm 21 in the Duoay-Rheims Bible) before He died on the cross, did the bystanders say “hey Jesus, sorry to break the news to you, but that quote came from Davidic times”? In Mat 27:47, it reads: “And some that stood there and heard, said: This man calleth Elias.”. They understood the history of their people, and the fact that the Psalm was being fulfilled in thier presence meant something to them. It meant enough that they considered one of the greatest Old Testament prophets.

Remember 2 Tim 3:16 - “All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice…” (emphasis mine).
FollowTheWay said:
Also under these circumstances Mary would have to be divine, but Jesus’s brother was not divine in fact he turned from Jesus at first, after all she gave birth to him.
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This doesn’t make any sense to me; if this is not a typo then I have no idea what it is.
 
This doesn’t make any sense to me; if this is not a typo then I have no idea what it is.
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FollowTheWay is not a Catholic, and apparently holds to what some of the non-Catholic churches teach - that Jesus had brothers, and that Mary was not special or different from other women.

He doesn’t know what he’s missing!

God bless all of us,

Ruthie

:gopray2: Thank you, Jesus, for giving Mary to me as my Perfect Mother. Thank you, Our Lady of Perpetual Help, for your many intercessions on my behalf.
:signofcross:
 
Ruthie said:
FollowTheWay is not a Catholic, and apparently holds to what some of the non-Catholic churches teach - that Jesus had brothers, and that Mary was not special or different from other women.
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Thanks, I definitely get that impression. I had a hunch that this is what ‘FollowTheWay’ was getting at, but the grammar didn’t make sense and I didn’t want to make a false assumption. I will say no more on this, as I’m sure this has definitively been put to bed in other threads…
 
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