Mary as having authority as the "Queen Mother"?

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adstrinity said:
Such as?
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I *think *an argument goes…
that it can’t be Mary because Mary couldn’t have suffered birth pangs using Rev 12:2 and Gen 3:16. Birth pangs are a result of the fall. Since Mary is free from sin she couldn’t have suffered birth pangs so therefore she can’t be the woman of Rev 12.

???
 
389670 said:
Do you have anyone else in mind?
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Point being is Revelations doesn’t mention the name Mary, but Isaiah doesn’t mention the name Jesus either. But clearly it is Jesus, just like Revelation clearly states that it is Mary without any mention…get it?
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Point being is Revelations doesn’t mention the name Mary, but Isaiah doesn’t mention the name Jesus either. But clearly it is Jesus, just like Revelation clearly states that it is Mary without any mention…get it?
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Not really.
 
SIA said:
Hmmm, Jesus didn’t say that but yet you imply that. Revelation doesn’t mention Mary but yet you imply it. See where this is going?🙂
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Who gave birth to the One who saves the world?

Who are “the rest of her children, who follow HIs commandments”?

I agree that the woman in Revelation is a polyvalent image.
389670 said:
Why couldn’t the woman in Rev 12 be someone else than Mary?
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The image has elements reflective of Mary, the Church, and the Nation of Israel. Apocalyptic literature is, by definition, multilayered.
 
SIA said:
Mary isn’t mentioned past the book of Acts. You need to put your glasses on.
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Think about what you are saying here. The books of the Bible were written, compiled, preserved and promulgated by the Catholic Church. The fact that the books were arranged in the order they were is not chronological, and it is not based on giving any on element of Catholic Theology priority. You seem to be saying that, since you cannot see Mary in any of the books “past Acts” that her role is of little significance.
 
guanophore said:
Think about what you are saying here. The books of the Bible were written, compiled, preserved and promulgated by the Catholic Church. The fact that the books were arranged in the order they were is not chronological, and it is not based on giving any on element of Catholic Theology priority. You seem to be saying that, since you cannot see Mary in any of the books “past Acts” that her role is of little significance.
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You are way ahead of yourself here. The Catholic church wrote the Bible? I think you better take a look at history my friend. The RCC doesn’t corner the market on God and everything else, sorry. And the point remains that Mary is not mentioned past the book of Acts. Don’t just simply dismiss that or pretend that it doesn’t mean anything. The Mary of Catholic theology is not the Mary of the Bible. Plain and simple.
 
SIA said:
You are way ahead of yourself here. The Catholic church wrote the Bible? I think you better take a look at history my friend. The RCC doesn’t corner the market on God and everything else, sorry. And the point remains that Mary is not mentioned past the book of Acts. Don’t just simply dismiss that or pretend that it doesn’t mean anything. The Mary of Catholic theology is not the Mary of the Bible. Plain and simple.
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The Catholic Church forbids anyone to ascribe any attributes of deity to Mary, whether inside or outside the grace of God. However holy she might be by grace, she still remains a creature. Mary would be the first to say that, but for the grace of God, she would have no privileges beyond those of other women. The Catholic Church teaches the same. But she certainly did receive graces that no other woman ever received or ever will receive, and in supernatural dignity and power surpasses them all. In bringing forth Jesus Christ she brought forth the life of my soul, and she is as much my mother in the supernatural order as my earthly mother in the temporal and natural order. And I for one hope ever to retain a child’s devotion to my heavenly Mother till the day of my death and for all eternity. I know that as Eve was the mother of all the living, yet brought us forth to suffering, misery and death, so Mary, the second Eve, between whom and Satan God promised to put enmity, brought me forth to the happiness and life of God’s grace.

Eve listened to Satan, disobeyed God, gave us to eat of the tree of evil, left us miserable and driven from the paradise of the grace of God.

Mary listened to an Angel, obeyed, gave us to eat of the tree of life, restored happiness to us and us to God’s grace, and she is enthroned in heaven with Christ. And there she is my Mother and my Queen. I can only wish she could be as proud of me as I am of her.
 
leg said:
The Catholic Church forbids anyone to ascribe any attributes of deity to Mary, whether inside or outside the grace of God. However holy she might be by grace, she still remains a creature. Mary would be the first to say that, but for the grace of God, she would have no privileges beyond those of other women. The Catholic Church teaches the same. But she certainly did receive graces that no other woman ever received or ever will receive, and in supernatural dignity and power surpasses them all. In bringing forth Jesus Christ she brought forth the life of my soul, and she is as much my mother in the supernatural order as my earthly mother in the temporal and natural order. And I for one hope ever to retain a child’s devotion to my heavenly Mother till the day of my death and for all eternity. I know that as Eve was the mother of all the living, yet brought us forth to suffering, misery and death, so Mary, the second Eve, between whom and Satan God promised to put enmity, brought me forth to the happiness and life of God’s grace.

Eve listened to Satan, disobeyed God, gave us to eat of the tree of evil, left us miserable and driven from the paradise of the grace of God.

Mary listened to an Angel, obeyed, gave us to eat of the tree of life, restored happiness to us and us to God’s grace, and she is enthroned in heaven with Christ. And there she is my Mother and my Queen. I can only wish she could be as proud of me as I am of her.
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Mary restored happiness to us? That’s blasphemous. Jesus Christ alone is our joy and our happiness. You come up with your mother and your queen on your own. Scripture doesn’t tell us that. Pretty dangerous attributes you are throwing around.
 
SIA said:
Mary restored happiness to us? That’s blasphemous. Jesus Christ alone is our joy and our happiness. You come up with your mother and your queen on your own. Scripture doesn’t tell us that. Pretty dangerous attributes you are throwing around.
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If one who professes to be a Christian and to believe in the Bible thinks to please Christ by speaking contemptuously of His Mother, he is very much mistaken. I do not know whether you hold your own mother in reverence and esteem. But I will presume that you do. And I will merely say that Jesus was a far better Son to His Mother than you ever have been to yours. If you would resent any attempt to belittle your mother, you have a faint indication of what Christ thinks of such words as yours. Mary was selected for a great purpose. Selection by an infinitely wise God is not a haphazard proceeding. There were reasons for the selection of Mary rather than others, and those reasons had to do with her holiness and fitness above all others for the immense dignity.
 
leg said:
If one who professes to be a Christian and to believe in the Bible thinks to please Christ by speaking contemptuously of His Mother, he is very much mistaken. I do not know whether you hold your own mother in reverence and esteem. But I will presume that you do. And I will merely say that Jesus was a far better Son to His Mother than you ever have been to yours. If you would resent any attempt to belittle your mother, you have a faint indication of what Christ thinks of such words as yours. Mary was selected for a great purpose. Selection by an infinitely wise God is not a haphazard proceeding. There were reasons for the selection of Mary rather than others, and those reasons had to do with her holiness and fitness above all others for the immense dignity.
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You are falsely accusing me. I never said anything contemptuous about Mary. I said that Mary is being held to a false level of divinity in the Catholic church. That isn’t insulting to Mary and in fact, it is respectful to Mary because it is the truth. Your methods of trying to paint someone who will not raise Mary to a level of diety as being insulting to her is really getting old and worn out.
 
SIA said:
You are falsely accusing me. I never said anything contemptuous about Mary. I said that Mary is being held to a false level of divinity in the Catholic church. That isn’t insulting to Mary and in fact, it is respectful to Mary because it is the truth. Your methods of trying to paint someone who will not raise Mary to a level of diety as being insulting to her is really getting old and worn out.
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Firstly, I deny that Mary was just an ordinary woman. She was a human being, but amongst human beings there are degrees of dignity. And she was no ordinary woman to whom God thought fit to send an Archangel with the salutation, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.” Nor was she an ordinary woman to whom Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Ghost, cried out, “Blessed art thou amongst women; and whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me.” Had any ordinary woman come to visit Elizabeth, no such exclamation would have fallen from her lips.

Secondly, I think you would agree that Mary was selected for a great purpose. Selected by whom? By God. Now God has ever fittingly prepared those whom He has deigned to call to great duties. We see that in the case of the Prophets, and above all, in the case of that greatest of all the Prophets, St. John the Baptist. Yet not one of these had so close a relationship to Jesus as she who was destined to be His Mother.
 
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