Mary as having authority as the "Queen Mother"?

[guanophore]

Sorry I missed this post from a few pages back. I think you are referring to the west (Roman or Latin) and east (Orthodox) rites of the Catholic Church, and of course I agree. I am just starting to learn about the eastern rites but currently don’t know much, so please excuse any ignorance on my part here.

No, the Orthodox are not considered to be in communion with the Catholic Church. there are 23 Rites in the Catholic Church, all of them in communion with the Bishop of Rome. The Latin (Roman) Rite is the largest, and most common in the West. Most people are not aware that the other rites exist.

Protestants revolted against the Roman Rite in Europe, and one thing I often notice is that they accuse the “Roman” Church of things that are common to all the Eastern Rites, Orthodox, and Oriental Churches as well. To me, this invalidates the accusation that these things (like the perpetual virginity of Mary) were “invented” by Rome. These doctrines are shared by all Churches founded by the Apostles.

No apology needed at all. It is just one of my songs to sing.

 

[SIA]

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Galatians 3, 27

Pope Pius attributes to Mary the virtues all Christians should possess in emulation of our Lord who exhorted us to “be perfect as [our] heavenly Father is perfect” (cf. Mt 5:48). Your problem is that you completely ignore Jesus is just as much a human being as we are in his Divine Person and that we have been created in the divine image, expected to conform to it. Mary is the purest realization of what it means for us Christians to have faith. Her humble ‘fiat’ (cf. Lk 1:35) brought the Saviour into the world. The Church has praised Mary for her faith ever since apostolic time. Luke certainly reveals that God desires all generations to call Mary blessed for her act of faith and the fruits of her faith with regard to her privileged position with God. (cf. Lk 1:48). It’s blasphemous to deny our heavenly Father the pleasure to do “great things” for Mary on account of her Divine Maternity and true faith.

“Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
Luke 1, 45

“Wherefore also Luke, commencing the genealogy with the Lord, carried it back to Adam, indicating that it was He who regenerated them into the Gospel of life, and not they Him. And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith.”
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:22 (A.D. 180)

St. Irenaeus (Bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul) was a disciple of St. Polycarp, who was a disciple of St. John the Evangelist.

PAX :tiphat:

thank you for your response. I however see it merely as a defense for what Pope Pius XII stated. Respectively, I would expect nothing less from most Catholics. I see many things that Pius XII attributed to Mary that soley belong to either Jesus or the Holy Spirit. There is no defense for the blasphemous things that he said if you take a realistic view from the Scriptures. Mary was called blessed, but you seem to ignore that many have be called blessed in the Scriptures for several reasons. Mary was chosen by God for a special purpose. She is not superhuman nor can she do superhuman things. It is about what Christ manifests, not Mary.

 

[mpernot]

thank you for your response. I however see it merely as a defense for what Pope Pius XII stated. Respectively, I would expect nothing less from most Catholics. I see many things that Pius XII attributed to Mary that soley belong to either Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

Everything Mary has was given to her by God, she does not merit it of her own accord. Catholics don’t try to give to Mary anything that God has not already given her. Think about this:

Luke 1:37 - “Because no word shall be impossible with God.”

Do you think that God, if He wanted to, could have:

• Made Mary without sin?
• Kept Mary sinless through her entire lifetime?
• Assumed Mary body and soul into heaven?
• Crowned Mary queen of heaven?
• Given Mary the ability to share in his mediation and redemptive power in heaven?

Do you think that any of these things are impossible for God to do? Are only the deeds found explicitly in Scripture not impossible for God? I’m not asking whether there’s proof of any of these doctrines contained in this passage, I’m asking if these doctrines are possible for God to enact.

There is no defense for the blasphemous things that he said if you take a realistic view from the Scriptures.

What constitutes a “realistic” view from Scripture? Reading it in light of the teachings of the church that Jesus founded? Relying on one’s personal interpretation? Or relying on your personal interpretation? Whose interpretation of Scripture carries more authority - yours, or the Catholic Church’s?

Mary was called blessed, but you seem to ignore that many have be called blessed in the Scriptures for several reasons.

Very true; however, Mary was called more than just blessed. She was called “blessed among women” (Luke 1:28 and Luke 1:42), not just that she happened to be another blessed person in a group of previously declared blessed people. Also, Mary says that all generations would call her blessed (Luke 1:48), not just a few people in her life and that’s it. These sort of distinctions are not made for the other “blesseds” in Scripture, and Catholics fully comprehend why - Mary, as the mother of God, is indeed most blessed among creatures made by God. Read Luke 1 very carefully and objectively, and you will see that Mary is no ordinary creature.

Mary was chosen by God for a special purpose. She is not superhuman nor can she do superhuman things. It is about what Christ manifests, not Mary.

I’ll confine my response to Mary’s earthly life, as I would consider everyone in heaven to be “superhuman”. Catholics fully agree with every statement you made here. In fact, Catholic posters in this particular thread have been making these statements since it started and you were the one who had issues with them.

 

[guanophore]

I see many things that Pius XII attributed to Mary that soley belong to either Jesus or the Holy Spirit.  There is no defense for the blasphemous things that he said if you take a realistic view from the Scriptures.  Mary was called blessed, but you seem to ignore that many have be called blessed in the Scriptures for several reasons.  Mary was chosen by God for a special purpose.  She is not superhuman nor can she do superhuman things.  It is about what Christ manifests, not Mary.

Honoring what God has done in the lives of His people honors God. This is how it is intended to work. We are to shine as lights in the world. Of course Mary can do superhuman things, we all can! Jesus promised that greater things than He did, we would do, because He goes to the father. We see examples all through scripture of people doing superhuman things by faith. What about Heb. chap. 11? One who denies miracles denies God’s inheritance.

 

[Good_Fella]

thank you for your response. I however see it merely as a defense for what Pope Pius XII stated. Respectively, I would expect nothing less from most Catholics. I see many things that Pius XII attributed to Mary that soley belong to either Jesus or the Holy Spirit. There is no defense for the blasphemous things that he said if you take a realistic view from the Scriptures. Mary was called blessed, but you seem to ignore that many have be called blessed in the Scriptures for several reasons. Mary was chosen by God for a special purpose. She is not superhuman nor can she do superhuman things. It is about what Christ manifests, not Mary.

Pope Pius Xll has never taught anything blasphemous. I’m afraid you have taken many of his teachings out of context based on your narrow interpretation of Scripture. I cannot say anything more since you haven’t provided any quotes of the alleged many blasphemous things he supposedly taught in his encyclicals.

Mary is declared blessed in the scriptures by virtue of her singular Divine Maternity and faith in God’s word as opposed to Eve’s disobedience which brought about the fall and the serpent’s offspring originating with Cain. Mary was indeed chosen by God to conceive and bear his Only-begotten Son. And she was never coerced by God ignominously as Eve was tempted by the devil. Thus Mary is declared “most blessed among women” by her cousin Elizabeth. But she is rather (menounge = more) blessed for having heard the word of God and observing it (Lk 11:28). Elizabeth tells Mary: “Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.” The Church honours Mary in light of her Divine Maternity - one of “the great things” God has done for her - and act of faith which rested on her free consent and contributed to our salvation. The Church joins Elizabeth in honouring Mary for her privileges and virtues freely exercised in God’s grace. Our Blessed Mother’s love and faith are virtues that meritoriously belong to her through the grace of God and are acceptable and pleasing to Him. We must not deny Mary that same recognition God has granted her through the words of Elizabeth.

Jesus declared Peter blessed for having been graced with the knowledge of Christ’s divinity, but the scriptures reveal the imperative that “all generations shall” call Mary blessed. Her unique position with God and the fruits of her faith place Mary above the rest of our Lord’s true disciples in the order of grace. Unlike Mary, though, Peter was not at complete enmity with the serpent. Under the devil’s influence he attempted to dissuade our Lord from going to Jerusalem at Passover where he would be handed over to his enemies and tortured and killed, notwithstanding the knowledge the apostle had been graced with and his witness to Christ’s transfiguration. Peter had also demonstrated a lack of faith when he was called by our Lord to leave his boat and meet him on the water and when he denied our Lord three times. Peter would have been more blessed if he hadn’t acted out of faithlessness. After the resurrection the apostle had to reconfirm his faith in our Lord when Jesus asked him three times whether he “loved” him. Our Lord’s gesture was imperative since Peter was especially chosen to be his vicar on earth, a divine mandate beneath Mary’s divine maternal role in the order of grace.

The recognition the Church grants Mary rests on the many special graces she has received from God for his glory. God is glorified by our free consent to cooperate with his grace and obey his word in “faith through love”. The scriptures portray Mary as one who demonstrated perfect and unwavering faith. She merits the honour the Church shows her just as all of Christ’s true disciples merit a heavenly reward by persevering in faith through love. Ultimately it’s all about who Mary’s offspring is and the merits of his Passion and Death. Meanwhile the Church must honour Mary who is our spiritual mother, given to all Christ’s true disciples by our Lord and Saviour from the cross. The Church’s devotion to Mary is exercised in accord with the Fourth Commandment.

In a Roman catacomb there exists a frescoe depicting Mary above Peter and Paul with her arms outstretched to both of them. (This frescoe indicates a prevalent belief in Mary’s Assumption, one of the other “great things” God has done for her by his grace.) The two apostles together have always symbolized the Church. The Mother of God is certainly also the Mother of the Church: the mystical body of Christ consisting of those “who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus” (Rev 12:17).

"For if Mary, as those declare who with sound mind extol her, had no other son but Jesus, and yet Jesus says to his mother, ‘Woman, behold thy son,’ and not, ‘Behold, you have this son also,’ then He virtually said to her, ‘Lo, this is Jesus, whom thou didst bear.’ Is it not the case that everyone who is perfect lives himself no longer, but Christ lives in him; and if Christ lives in him, then it is said of him to Mary, ‘Behold, thy son Christ.’ "
Origen, Commentary on John, 1:6 (A.D. 232)

May I wish you and your kin a joyous and peaceful Christmas with an abundance of God’s blessings in the New Year.

PAX :harp:

 

[SIA]

Pope Pius Xll has never taught anything blasphemous. I’m afraid you have taken many of his teachings out of context based on your narrow interpretation of Scripture. I cannot say anything more since you haven’t provided any quotes of the alleged many blasphemous things he supposedly taught.

Mary is declared blessed in the scriptures by virtue of her singular Divine Maternity and faith in God’s word as opposed to Eve’s disobedience which brought about the fall and the serpent’s offspring originating with Cain. Mary was indeed chosen by God to conceive and bear his Only-begotten Son. And she was never coerced by God ignominously as Eve was tempted by the devil. Thus Mary is declared “most blessed among women” by her cousin Elizabeth. But she is rather (menounge = more) blessed for having heard the word of God and observing it (Lk 11:28). Elizabeth tells Mary: “Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.” The Church honours Mary in light of her Divine Maternity - one of “the great things” God has done for her - and act of faith which rested on her free consent and contributed to our salvation. The Church joins Elizabeth in honouring Mary for her privileges and virtues freely exercised in God’s grace. Our Blessed Mother’s love and faith are virtues that meritoriously belong to her through the grace of God and are acceptable and pleasing to Him. We must not deny Mary that same recognition God has granted her through the words of Elizabeth.

Jesus declared Peter blessed for having been graced with the knowledge of Christ’s divinity, but the scriptures reveal the imperative that “all generations shall” call Mary blessed. Her unique position with God and the fruits of her faith place Mary above the rest of our Lord’s true disciples in the order of grace. Unlike Mary, though, Peter was not at complete enmity with the serpent. Under the devil’s influence he attempted to dissuade our Lord from going to Jerusalem at Passover where he would be handed over to his enemies and tortured and killed, notwithstanding the knowledge the apostle had been graced with and his witness to Christ’s transfiguration. Peter had also demonstrated a lack of faith when he was called by our Lord to leave his boat and meet him on the water and when he denied our Lord three times. After the resurrection the apostle had to reconfirm his faith in our Lord when Jesus asked him three times whether he “loved” him. Our Lord’s gesture was imperative since Peter was especially chosen to be his vicar on earth, a divine mandate beneath Mary’s divine maternal role in the order of grace.

The recognition the Church grants Mary rests on the many special graces she has received from God for his glory. God is glorified by our free consent to cooperate with his grace and obey his word in “faith through love”. The scriptures portray Mary as one who demonstrated perfect and unwavering faith. She merits the honour the Church shows her just as all of Christ’s true disciples merit a heavenly reward by persevering in faith through love. Ultimately it’s all about who Mary’s offspring is and the merits of his Passion and Death. Meanwhile the Church must honour Mary who is our spiritual mother, given to all Christ’s true disciples by our Lord and Saviour from the cross. The Church’s devotion to Mary is exercised in accord with the Fourth Commandment.

In a Roman catacomb there exists a frescoe depicting Mary above Peter and Paul with her arms outstretched to both of them. (This frescoe indicates a prevalent belief in Mary’s Assumption, one of the other “great things” God has done for her by his grace.) The two apostles together have always symbolized the Church. The Mother of God is certainly also the Mother of the Church: the mystical body of Christ consisting of those “who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus” (Rev 12:17).

"For if Mary, as those declare who with sound mind extol her, had no other son but Jesus, and yet Jesus says to his mother, ‘Woman, behold thy son,’ and not, ‘Behold, you have this son also,’ then He virtually said to her, ‘Lo, this is Jesus, whom thou didst bear.’ Is it not the case that everyone who is perfect lives himself no longer, but Christ lives in him; and if Christ lives in him, then it is said of him to Mary, ‘Behold, thy son Christ.’ "
Origen, Commentary on John, 1:6 (A.D. 232)

May I wish you and your kin a joyous and peaceful Christmas with an abundance of God’s blessings in the New Year.

PAX :harp:

It is proven fact by Scripture that Pius XII attributed qualities to Mary that are either Christ’s or the Holy Spirit’s respectively. Deny it til’ you die. It’s on you. Pius XII’s statement went much further than honoring Mary or showcasing what God gave to her. It is purely Mary worship. Many early Church fathers do not agree with what Pius XII stated. St. Bernard and St. Thomas Aquinas are a couple for starters. You cannot defend this! Archbishop Strosmeyer in 1870 said, “We have made a goddess out of the virgin Mary.”

 

[guanophore]

It is proven fact by Scripture that Pius XII attributed qualities to Mary that are either Christ’s or the Holy Spirit’s respectively.

I think such statements reflect a lack of understanding of what it means to be partakers of the Divine Nature. Partaking does not mean that we are Divine, but that we have access to the qualities of divinity, because God is at work in us to will and to do His good pleasure.

Deny it til’ you die. It’s on you. Pius XII’s statement went much further than honoring Mary or showcasing what God gave to her. It is purely Mary worship.

I also think that statements like this are made by people who have a deficient understanding of worship, and of prayer. It is easy for those that are lacking in this area to get confused.

Many early Church fathers do not agree with what Pius XII stated. St. Bernard and St. Thomas Aquinas are a couple for starters. You cannot defend this! Archbishop Strosmeyer in 1870 said, “We have made a goddess out of the virgin Mary.”

I will be the first to admit that there are some who do worship Mary as a Goddess. I am personally acquainted with at least one such person. However, this is not the teaching of the Church, and therefore, cannot be laid at the feet of Christ.

 

[Good_Fella]

It is proven fact by Scripture that Pius XII attributed qualities to Mary that are either Christ’s or the Holy Spirit’s respectively. Pius XII’s statement went much further than honoring Mary. It is purely Mary worship. Many early Church fathers do not agree with what Pius XII stated.

Here’s what Pope Pius Xll has written about Mary in accord with the Deposit of Faith - Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition - in his Encyclical ‘Ad Caeli Reginam’, On Proclaiming the Queenship of Mary, 11 October 1954:

“Nor has that faith ever failed by which we are taught that Mary, the Virgin Mother of God, reigns with a mother’s solicitude over the entire world, just as she is crowned in heavenly blessedness with the glory of a queen.”

From now on the crown of righteousness awaits me, which the Lord, the just judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me, but to all who have longed for his appearance.
2 Timothy 4, 8

If we persevere, we shall also reign with him.
2 Timothy 2, 12

Just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ.
1 Corinthians 15, 22-23

I rejoice heartily in the Lord,
in my God is the joy of my soul;
For he has clothed me with a robe of salvation,
and rapped me in a mantle of justice,
like a bride bedecked with her jewels.
Isaiah 61,10

“O Virgin all holy, he who has said of you all that is honourable and glorious has not sinned against the truth, but remains unequal to your merit. Look down upon us from above and be propitious to us. Lead us in peace and having brought us without shame to the throne of judgment, grant us a place at the right hand of your Son, that we may be borne off to heaven and sing with angels to the uncreated, consubstantial Trinity.”
Basil of Seleucia (ante A.D. 459)

2. “And so with confidence We have recourse to Mary our Queen, making known to her those sentiments of filial reverence which are not Ours alone, but which belong to all those who glory in the name of Christian.”

“I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring.”
Genesis 3, 15

Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war with the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus.
Revelation 12, 17

When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
John 2, 3

“Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger, O you alone pure and blessed.”
Sub Tuum Praesidium (c. A.D. 250)

8. " From early times Christians have believed…that she of whom was born the Son of the Most High received privileges of grace above all other beings created by God…And when Christians reflected upon the intimate connection that obtains between a mother and her son, they readily acknowledged the supreme royal dignity of the Mother of God."

And coming to her he said, “Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you.”
Luke 1, 28

“Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”
Luke 1, 42

“He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that his tabernacle [the Virgin Mary] was exempt from putridity and corruption.”
Hyppolytus (A.D. 235)

“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair; there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.”
Ephraem (A.D. 370)

“Hail, Mary, you are the most precious creature in the whole world; hail, Mary, uncorrupt dove; hail, Mary, inextinguishable lamp; for from you was born the Sun of justice…through you, every soul achieves salvation.”
Cyril of Alexandria (A.D. 431)

To be continued

 

[Good_Fella]

34. “According to ancient tradition and the sacred liturgy the main principle on which the royal dignity of Mary rests is without doubt her Divine Motherhood…Likewise it can be said that the heavenly voice of the Archangel Gabriel was the first to proclaim Mary’s royal office.”

And coming to her he said, “Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you.”
Luke 1, 28

Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
Luke 1, 30-33

Weaving a crown out of thorns, they placed it on his head, and a reed in his right hand. And kneeling before him, they mocked him saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!”
Matthew 27, 29

"Say to the king and to the queen mother: ‘Come down from your throne.’ "
Jeremiah 13, 18

“He reshaped man to perfection in Himself, from Mary the Mother of God through the Holy Spirit.”
Epiphanius (A.D. 374)

“When she became Mother of the Creator, she truly became Queen of every creature.”
John Damascene (c. 700 A.D.)

35. But the Blessed Virgin Mary should be called Queen, not only because of her Divine Motherhood, but also because God has willed her to have an exceptional role in the work of our salvation."

“I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed. She shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”
Genesis 3, 15

Then Uzziah said to her: “Blessed are you, daughter, by the Most High God, above all the women on earth; and blessed be the Lord God, the creator of heaven and earth, who guided your blow at the head of the chief of our enemies. Your deed of hope will never be forgotten by those who tell of the might of God.”
Judith 13, 18-19

And the angel said to her in reply, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.”
Luke 1, 35

“There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Ignatius (c. A.D. 110)

‘Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, because thou didst conceive Christ, the Son of God, the Redeemer of our souls.’
Coptic Ostraca (c. A.D. 600)

*36. “Now in the accomplishing of this work of redemption, the Blessed Virgin Mary was most closely associated with Christ…so the blessed Mary, by repairing all through her merits, is Mother and Queen of all…and Mary is the Queen of all things, because she restores each to its original dignity through the grace which she merited.” *

“May God make this redound to your everlasting honor, rewarding you with blessings, because you risked your life when your people were being oppressed, and you averted our disaster, walking uprightly before God.” And all the people answered, “Amen!. Amen!”
Judith 13, 20

“Blessed are you who believed, that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
Luke 1, 45

“And you yourself a sword will pierce, so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”
Luke 2, 35

“As the human race was subjected to death through the act of a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin.”
Irenaeus (A.D. 180)

To be continued.

 

[Good_Fella]

*38. “…if Mary, in taking an active part in the work of salvation, was, by God’s design, associated with Jesus Christ, the source of salvation itself, in a manner comparable to that in which Eve was associated with Adam, the source of death,… it may be stated that the work of our salvation was accomplished by a kind of ‘recapitulation’… then it may be legitimately concluded that as Christ, the new Adam, must be called a King not merely because He is Son of God, but also because He is our Redeemer, so analagously, the Blessed Virgin is queen not only because she is the Mother of God, but also because, as the new Eve, she was associated with the new Adam.” *

God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.
Genesis 1, 27

For we are God’s co-workers.
1 Corinthians 3, 9

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the Church.
Colossians 1, 24

“He became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience which proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her: wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me according to thy word.’ And by her has He been born.”
*Justin Martyr (A.D. 155) *

39. “From her union with Christ she attains a radiant eminence transcending that of any other creature; from her union with Christ she receives the royal right to dispose of the treasures of the Divine Redeemer’s kingdom; from her union with Christ finally is derived the inexhaustible efficacy of her maternal intercession before the Son and his Father.”

“And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.”
Luke 1, 43-44

Then he sat down upon his throne, and a throne was provided for the king’s mother, who sat at his right. "There is one small favor I would ask of you,"she said. “Do not refuse me.” “Ask it, my mother,” the king said to her, “for I will not refuse you.”
1 Kings 2, 19-20

“Mary, the holy Virgin, is truly great before God and men. For how shall we not proclaim her great, who held within her the uncontainable One, whom neither heaven nor earth can contain?”
Epiphanius (ante A.D. 403)

“Hail, our desirable gladness; Hail, O rejoicing of the Churches; Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness; Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace; Hail, most venerable memory.”
Theodotus of Ancrya (ante A.D. 446)

“Raised to heaven, she remains for the human race an unconquerable rampart, interceding for us before her Son and God.”
Theoteknos of Livias (ante A.D. 560)

*“Let us entrust ourselves with all our soul’s affection to the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary; let us all with all our strength, beg her patronage, that, at the moment when on earth we surround her with our suppliant homage, she herself may deign in heaven to commend us with fervent prayer. For without any doubt she who merited to bring ransom for those who needed deliverance, can more than all the saints benefit by her favor those who have received deliverance.” *
Ambrose Autpert (ante A.D. 778)

40. “Hence it cannot be doubted that Mary most Holy is far above all other creatures in dignity, and after her Son possesses primacy over all.”

To be continued

 

[Good_Fella]

It is proven fact by Scripture that Pius XII attributed qualities to Mary that are either Christ’s or the Holy Spirit’s respectively.

*42. “Besides, the Blessed Virgin possessed, after Christ, not only the highest degree of excellence and perfection, but also a share in that influence by which He, her Son and Redeemer, is rightly said to reign over the minds and wills of men. For if through His Humanity the divine Word performs miracles and gives graces, if He uses His Sacraments and Saints as instruments for the salvation of men, why should He not make use of the role and work of His most Holy Mother in imparting to us the fruits of redemption?” *

“Therefore, you are to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
Matthew 5, 48

“My soul does magnify the Lord;
my spirit rejoices in God my saviour.”
Luke 1, 46-47

Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure, as he is pure.
1 John 3, 2-3

“Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do even greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.”
John 14, 12

So then the Lord Jesus, after he spoke to them, was taken up into heaven and took his seat at the right hand of God. But they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the word through accompanying signs.
Mark 16, 19-20

For as Christ’s sufferings overflow to us, so through Christ does our encouragement also overflow. If we are afflicted, it is for your encouragement and salvation; if we are encouraged, it is for your encouragement, which enables you to endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is firm, for we know that as you share in the sufferings, you also share in the encouragement.
2 Corinthians 1, 5-7

Grace to you and peace from God our Father. We always give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, for we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love that you have for all the holy ones [saints] because of the hope reserved for you in heaven.
Colossians 1, 3-5

First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone. This is good and pleasing to God our saviour, who wills everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2, 1-4

My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
James 5, 19-20

The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.
James 5, 16

“Mary, the Ever-Virgin – radiant with divine light and full of grace, mediatrix first through her supernatural birth and now because of the intercession of her maternal assistance – be crowned with never ending blessings…seeking balance and fittingness in all things, we should make our way honestly, as sons of light.”
Germanus of Constantinople (ante A.D. 733)
*
“With the Mediator you are the Mediatrix of the entire world.”*
Ephraem (A.D. 373)

PAX :tiphat:

 

[SIA]

*42. “Besides, the Blessed Virgin possessed, after Christ, not only the highest degree of excellence and perfection, but also a share in that influence by which He, her Son and Redeemer, is rightly said to reign over the minds and wills of men. For if through His Humanity the divine Word performs miracles and gives graces, if He uses His Sacraments and Saints as instruments for the salvation of men, why should He not make use of the role and work of His most Holy Mother in imparting to us the fruits of redemption?” *

“Therefore, you are to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
Matthew 5, 48

“My soul does magnify the Lord;
my spirit rejoices in God my saviour.”
Luke 1, 46-47

Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure, as he is pure.
1 John 3, 2-3

“Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do even greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.”
John 14, 12

So then the Lord Jesus, after he spoke to them, was taken up into heaven and took his seat at the right hand of God. But they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the word through accompanying signs.
Mark 16, 19-20

For as Christ’s sufferings overflow to us, so through Christ does our encouragement also overflow. If we are afflicted, it is for your encouragement and salvation; if we are encouraged, it is for your encouragement, which enables you to endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is firm, for we know that as you share in the sufferings, you also share in the encouragement.
2 Corinthians 1, 5-7

Grace to you and peace from God our Father. We always give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, for we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love that you have for all the holy ones [saints] because of the hope reserved for you in heaven.
Colossians 1, 3-5

First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone. This is good and pleasing to God our saviour, who wills everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2, 1-4

My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
James 5, 19-20

The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.
James 5, 16

“Mary, the Ever-Virgin – radiant with divine light and full of grace, mediatrix first through her supernatural birth and now because of the intercession of her maternal assistance – be crowned with never ending blessings…seeking balance and fittingness in all things, we should make our way honestly, as sons of light.”
Germanus of Constantinople (ante A.D. 733)
*
“With the Mediator you are the Mediatrix of the entire world.”*
Ephraem (A.D. 373)

PAX :tiphat:

We really do need to stick to what the Scriptures say about Mary and not what fallable man says. Mediatrix is found nowhere within God’s Holy Word. My Bible also says nothing about Mary being full of grace. It says that she was highly favoured by God which I think is a much more correct translation.

 

[onenow1]

We really do need to stick to what the Scriptures say about Mary and not what fallable man says. Mediatrix is found nowhere within God’s Holy Word. My Bible also says nothing about Mary being full of grace. It says that she was highly favoured by God which I think is a much more correct translation.

onenow1, Of course this is only your opinion, and of course you are entitled to it !

For some non-Catholics, every time the name ‘Mary’ is introduced, there seems to be a ‘stumbling block’, whereas they have no problem with other characters in the Bible. Holy Scripture is filled with intercessory pleas by others. Here are a few examples:

Gen18:23-33, Abraham pleads with GOD for the lives of the people of Sodom.

Ex 32:11 and Psa 106:3, Moses pleads with GOD over the golden calf.

Rom 15:30, St. Paul asks all to pray for him.

Col 1:9, St. Paul said, ‘we too have been praying for you unceasingly, since the day we heard this, and asking that you may be filled with knowledge of His will, in all spiritual wisdom and understanding’.

2Thess 1:11, St. Paul iterates ‘we pray always for you’.

James 5:16, St. James asks, ‘pray for one another’.

And then of course, Blessed Mary already had interceded with her Son in John 2:3-5, so a precedent for her intercession is already apparent.

Clearly there is only one ‘Mediator’, but there are many ‘Intercessors’ to GOD.

Peace,onenow1

 

[mpernot]

We really do need to stick to what the Scriptures say about Mary and not what fallable man says. Mediatrix is found nowhere within God’s Holy Word.

I hate to keep bringing this up…

From post 73, SIA wrote: “I* don’t believe everything that is truth is contained in Scripture, but I do believe that everything in the Bible is truth. Think about that.”*

Do you really believe this or not?

Also, when the church fathers taught faith and morals in full agreement with the church, they taught infallibly. I also think it’s interesting that before, you were telling all of us to read the church fathers because they didn’t hold any of the Catholics’ beliefs about Mary. Now that it’s been proven to you otherwise, they are just “fallible men”…

My Bible also says nothing about Mary being full of grace. It says that she was highly favoured by God which I think is a much more correct translation.

What Bible are you using? Hopefully not the KJV (which reads as you said above). You know, the version that has books missing and words changed because a fallible man did these things on his own authority to make Scripture say what he wanted them to. Do you think the Holy Spirit approves of rewriting the book that He authored? I’ll answer that for you; Rev 22:18-19 says no.

In my Bible (RSV, NAB and Duoay-Rheims all agree):

Luke 1:28 - "And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. "

The phrase “full of grace” is translated from the Greek word “kecharitomene.” This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just “highly favored.” She has been perfected in grace by God. “Full of grace” is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

I’m not an ancient Greek scholar, so I’m glad I have resources who are…

 

[guanophore]

We really do need to stick to what the Scriptures say about Mary and not what fallable man says. Mediatrix is found nowhere within God’s Holy Word. My Bible also says nothing about Mary being full of grace. It says that she was highly favoured by God which I think is a much more correct translation.

You are certainly free to limit yourself to whatever portion of divine revelation you desire.

Your own thinking about what is correct can also be your standard of translation.

The heck with what everyone else thought before you came along.

 

[SIA]

You are certainly free to limit yourself to whatever portion of divine revelation you desire.

Your own thinking about what is correct can also be your standard of translation.

The heck with what everyone else thought before you came along.

I’m talking about Scripture here. Fact is, the Douay Rheims Bible was revised more times than the King James version.

 

[SIA]

I hate to keep bringing this up…

From post 73, SIA wrote: “I* don’t believe everything that is truth is contained in Scripture, but I do believe that everything in the Bible is truth. Think about that.”*

Do you really believe this or not?

Also, when the church fathers taught faith and morals in full agreement with the church, they taught infallibly. I also think it’s interesting that before, you were telling all of us to read the church fathers because they didn’t hold any of the Catholics’ beliefs about Mary. Now that it’s been proven to you otherwise, they are just “fallible men”…

What Bible are you using? Hopefully not the KJV (which reads as you said above). You know, the version that has books missing and words changed because a fallible man did these things on his own authority to make Scripture say what he wanted them to. Do you think the Holy Spirit approves of rewriting the book that He authored? I’ll answer that for you; Rev 22:18-19 says no.

In my Bible (RSV, NAB and Duoay-Rheims all agree):

Luke 1:28 - "And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. "

The phrase “full of grace” is translated from the Greek word “kecharitomene.” This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just “highly favored.” She has been perfected in grace by God. “Full of grace” is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

I’m not an ancient Greek scholar, so I’m glad I have resources who are…

New International Version

 

[Good_Fella]

We really do need to stick to what the Scriptures say about Mary and not what fallable man says. Mediatrix is found nowhere within God’s Holy Word. My Bible also says nothing about Mary being full of grace. It says that she was highly favoured by God which I think is a much more correct translation.

Haven’t you read all four parts of my last reponse? The first three are on the previous page. It was to show you that Pope Pius hasn’t taught anything blasphemous in his encyclical. In most of it he cites the consistent teachings of the Church Fathers and Doctors. But I omitted their quotes. If you read everything I wrote, you’ll see how the scriptures portray Mary as our Mediatrix.

On the surface the modern translation “highly favoured one” is deficient in meaning but means the same thing as “full of grace”. Scripture must be intrepeted in light of Apostolic Tradition. The correct English translation is found in the Douay Rheims Version.
Luke originally wrote in the Greek: ‘Chaire kecharitomene’. Jerome translated the Greek into the Latin: “Ave, gratia plena.” The early Church Fathers accepted the expression “perfectly graced” or “full of grace”. All the same, it’s significant that the angel Gabriel addresses Mary not by her given name but by her spiritual state. This is after he “hails” her in recognition of her unique royal position of Queen Mother. The infant Church in Palestine certainly saw the Judaic connection with the Christian faith.

 

[guanophore]

I’m talking about Scripture here. Fact is, the Douay Rheims Bible was revised more times than the King James version.

Yes. Holy Scripture is one of the valuable strands of Divine Revelation. You can limit yourself to it if you should so desire. It is within you freedom to reject all of what was believed and taught for the 2000 years before you came along. You can read the holy documents, and make up in your own mind what you think they mean, according to your own standards.

 

[SIA]

Yes. Holy Scripture is one of the valuable strands of Divine Revelation. You can limit yourself to it if you should so desire. It is within you freedom to reject all of what was believed and taught for the 2000 years before you came along. You can read the holy documents, and make up in your own mind what you think they mean, according to your own standards.

I never said anything about being limited to Scripture alone. My statement is that Scripture is the highest authority in Christianity, not the only authority. I think that the reasoning that God gave us should count for something there along with the traditions of the Apostles and the Early Church.