Paul referred to himself (and all of us) as a co-laborer with Christ when he wrote:
How do you know it was John at the foot of the cross?
You seem to be suffering from the Nestorian heresy Les.
At the Foot of the CrossHow do you know it was John at the foot of the cross?
The mother of John the Apostle was behind them, a little way off. John did not need another mother.
Since you also claim to be the disciple at the foot of His cross, what prevents you from taking her to yourself?
This is a non-starter, G.
There is no need to “twist,” Leslie. It was written by a Catholic, for catholics. there is nothing in the NT that contradicts Catholic doctrine.
Maybe this will help.
I like the post, but she’ll always have an “answer.”Maybe this will help.
Jesus Christ was (is) a person, as you are a person, and we are persons.
Jesus Christ has two natures, a divine nature and a human nature. He is unique in being the only person ever born with two distinct natures.
He can do everything that GOD can do, and at the same time do everything that a man can do except sin.
As GOD, He knew everything. As man, He had to learn everything, as you and I have to do. Lk 2:52
His foster father, St Joseph, taught the creator of the universe how to be a carpenter.
It is a mystery as to how these two natures co-existed in His one person. It is known as the ‘Hypostatic Union’.
Jesus Christ is but one person, with two natures.
He is not two persons, each with His own nature. . \A son receives his nature from his father, male, human etc.
Jesus Christ received His nature from His father, a divine nature.
Since Jesus Christ is His Fathers Son, He is a divine person. He cannot be a human person also, as that would make Him two persons, each with a nature.
A woman gives birth to a ‘PERSON’ and that person possesses a nature, male, female etc. She does not give birth to a nature.
Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ, a ‘DIVINE PERSON’.
Since Mary gave birth to a divine person, that makes her the Mother of GOD. :yup:
Peace, Have a Happy Healthy and Blessed New year.
Onenow1
Well done. We’ll see.Maybe this will help.
Jesus Christ was (is) a person, as you are a person, and we are persons.
Jesus Christ has two natures, a divine nature and a human nature. He is unique in being the only person ever born with two distinct natures.
He can do everything that GOD can do, and at the same time do everything that a man can do except sin.
As GOD, He knew everything. As man, He had to learn everything, as you and I have to do. Lk 2:52
His foster father, St Joseph, taught the creator of the universe how to be a carpenter.
It is a mystery as to how these two natures co-existed in His one person. It is known as the ‘Hypostatic Union’.
Jesus Christ is but one person, with two natures.
He is not two persons, each with His own nature. . \A son receives his nature from his father, male, human etc.
Jesus Christ received His nature from His father, a divine nature.
Since Jesus Christ is His Fathers Son, He is a divine person. He cannot be a human person also, as that would make Him two persons, each with a nature.
A woman gives birth to a ‘PERSON’ and that person possesses a nature, male, female etc. She does not give birth to a nature.
Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ, a ‘DIVINE PERSON’.
Since Mary gave birth to a divine person, that makes her the Mother of GOD. :yup:
Peace, Have a Happy Healthy and Blessed New year.
Onenow1
Indeed.
(BB code added by PRmerger)
Mr. Martignoni is certainly correct, I think most of these ex-Catholics say that just to make us Catholics do a double take and think, “what? They were devout? They knew what the Church teaches and they converted away?” They try to get Catholics thinking like that and that initial doubt is what pulls lukewarm and even devout (in the correct sense!
) Catholics out of the Church. It’s very sad, really.Clearly you have been taught some errors about the Trinity, and the nature of Christ. This notion that the Son is not the creator, or that the Father “turned His face from Him” is a modern innovation that departs from the Apostolic gospel.
:tiphat:And thank you for informing me of this newsletter, it looks very promising!
Have you ever considered using the method that Jesus set up? Have you thougth about receiving the Gospel from those He sent, instead of having to “guess and come up with it”?
You have been misinformed about the Apostolic doctrine of original sin Leslie. We do NOT inherit Adam’s sin. We inherit the consequences of that sin, which is concupiscense, the sin nature or tendency toward sin. Not all have sinned. the passage in Rom. is referring to faithless persons sinning through disbelief, both Jew, and Gentile.
She chose not to sin. You can do the same.
No, Leslie. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates Mary ever sinned. However, that does not make her God. We are all expected to refrain from sinning. She was not sacrificed for us, either. You have been gravely misled.
the blood sacrifice that set us all free uncluding Mary. You can talk until you are blue in the face and you can only say she was perfect by your writings....NOT Gods. I go by Gods.....And as I said before...if she where perfect and never sinned SHE could have been the blood sacrifice.....You ARE makiing her equal to God and you are WRONG.Well, to the extent that these things were held by the Church prior to the time that pen went to papyrus to create scripture, this is true.
No, the doctrines of the Church are on par with Scripture. The Sacred Tradtition and the Scripture are considered equal strands of divine revelation.
Les, we are all expected to be without sin, and if God has His way with you, you will one day be sinless as well. Humans were not created with or for sin. Sin is an abberation, a fallen state from which Christ came to deliver us. No one can remain sinless without the grace of God.
Your right, it is a total waste of time…
It is a shame that you were so poorly catechized in the Catholic faith. The bigger shame is that you don’t even realize you were given wrong information!Have you ever considered using the method that Jesus set up? Have you thougth about receiving the Gospel from those He sent, instead of having to “guess and come up with it”?
Yes and that would be the inspired Word of God also known as the Bible
John had a mom.
Of cours he did or he would not have been born…I bet he had a dad to, however it does not say if she was still living…Just a thought, if I may have that
Why is is so offensive to you that Jesus might want to share His mother with His Bride?
Mary is not offensive to me at all, I have great respect for her as I have said soooooooooooomany times before…He gave no evidence of wanting to share Mary or speak of her hardly at all. If this was His thought =, He and Mary would have been together and mentioned all the time together…the apostles are…He had no trouble speaking about people close to Him and that were with Him all the time…But the ones that He did mentionn were, Peter, James and John…They were with Him on most of the important things He did…NEVER Mary, so you tell me…Was He just forgetfull in mentioning her, or not a part of His ministry…
Again I find myself wondering why you are here. It is clear from your posts that you got a very poor education in the Catholic faith.
No, I got an excellent education, no matter what you think. You see your think it was not good because I left, or doo not agree with you…Perhaps you would like
to tell the nuns and priest at Our Lady of Peace Academy that they do not know how to educate girls, and then to Marymount and tell them about their poor theology department is. I really am sick to death of you telling me my education was poor because I do not agree with you. Did it ever occure to you that I was very well educated…which I was…except in spelling of course…but I even know how to use a dictionary if I so choose…amazing isn’t it
You have been misinformed about the Apostolic doctrine of original sin Leslie. We do NOT inherit Adam’s sin. We inherit the consequences of that sin, which is concupiscense, the sin nature or tendency toward sin. Not all have sinned. the passage in Rom. is referring to faithless persons sinning through disbelief, both Jew, and Gentile.
That was pounded in our heads from the time I was 5 years old…So the doctrine changed again…
She chose not to sin. You can do the same.
Where doe it say that IN THE BIBLE…?
No, Leslie. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates Mary ever sinned. However, that does not make her God. Your right about that…
We are all expected to refrain from sinning. She was not sacrificed for us, either. Right I know that too…
You have been gravely misled.
My Bad…Please tell the Nuns that taught me are Jerks…
Leslie Polley;6111867:
Your right He does, perhaps you have achieved that, I have not…But I persavre
I am a FIRM believer in the Trinity…But he was being baptised, His Father said from heaven…this is my Son with whom I am well pleased…On the cross God turned his head from Jesus because He could not look on sin, and when Jesus assended into heaven, He left us the Comforter…The Holy Spirit…He now sits on the right hand of His Father…These are all speaking of them seperatly, and if this is heresy then the Bible is heresy…
THis whole post of yours is rediculous…Are you kidding me? Now she’s adding to the dictionary, go figure. :banghead:
The definition does not have these words and does not imply them, that is the preposition form of the word, I gave the conjunction definition of “until,” they have two different meanings.
Yes, you can say whatever you want, but what matters is whether or not it is true, your position, as you have been shown many times, is not.
From m-w.com/ —
Until
Preposition
Until
- used as a function word to indicate continuance (as of an action or condition) to a specified time
- before
Conjunction
You will see the same thing at www.dictionary.com. The English language is against you on this one.
- up to the time that
- up to such time as
You obviously are so prejudiced that you can’t even see that the English word (I’m assuming it’s your first language) “until” has two meanings.
You don’t want me to hold the same beliefs you do?
I never said you elevated your self anyplace. I simply said that you have set down in stone (and, in your mind, authoritatively), what is correct and incorrect.
I may not know every doctrine your church teaches, but I do know that you don’t believe Mary was immaculately conceived or a perpetual virgin, and this is what I am defending.
Calm down, I didn’t attack you, I merely pointed out an observation. “[T]he tree is known by it’s fruit” [Mt 12:33], you stubbornly and purposefully deny that the word “until” has two meanings without any reason to believe so. It’s been proven to you several times over that the word “until” has two meanings, but you refuse to believe it, therefore I said you were hardened of heart. And I sincerely apologize if I offended you, that is not what I meant to do, I’m sorry.
I just showed you what you yourself had to say about Nestorianism. As you can plainly see in the link, your red words, “I am so sorry…it is not heresy, it is truth.” Then, in my post 273, I told you what you claim to be truth . . . you’re the one who said it, not me. I realize that you believe Jesus is God, this whole ordeal has been more of an instructional lesson: read up on things before you say that they are true!
You are wrong, you have not answered my post number 335. I asked you to provide your proof again and you have not, you have simply written your opinions without Scripture to back them up.
You keep thinking that…lol, that’s just crazy talk. I can hardly see Christ going against the Will of His father just to save someone some embarrassment.
Did you by any chance happen to notice that nowhere in Her response, does it even imply she felt like she did a bad thing where She wouldn’t dare do something like that again as you stated. There was no: “Oops, sorry Son, my bad. I should have known better.” http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r49/Escape_bucket/oops.gif
Because not a second later, she completely ignored being reprimanded chuckles when She said: “Whatsoever he shall say to you, you do”. That to me sounds like a Woman who’s pretty sure Her request wasnt a bad one as well as having the certainty of it being met. The Mother of God would never ask of Him something that was totally againt His will.
You see, your interpretation Leslie has no flow with the rest of the passage. It stops abruptly. Where as ours goes perfectly with the Sacred Traditions of our Blessed Mother, being the great Intercessor that She is.
Further proof that you have been defeated and have nothing left to say in defense of your 150 year old belief . . .
