Mary as Immaculate Conception

[Good_Fella]

Mary is not offensive to me at all, I have great respect for her as I have said soooooooooooomany times before…He gave no evidence of wanting to share Mary or speak of her hardly at all. If this was His thought =, He and Mary would have been together and mentioned all the time together…the apostles are…He had no trouble speaking about people close to Him and that were with Him all the time…But the ones that He did mentionn were, Peter, James and John…They were with Him on most of the important things He did…NEVER Mary, so you tell me…Was He just forgetfull in mentioning her, or not a part of His ministry

Jesus gave us Mary to be our spiritual mother when he mentioned her to the disciple: Behold your mother. Since apostolic time the Church has understood the profound significance of our Lord’s gesture.

Jesus and Mary were physically together when she carried him in her womb and lived under the same roof for thirty years. None of the apostles were granted this immeasurably great privilege. And it was because of this intimately physical and spiritual relationship between Mary and the Source of all grace that she couldn’t have sinned in her life.

Mary was with Jesus when he performed his first and most important miracle at the wedding feast at Cana by his mother’s solicitation. It was at this moment that Mary formally gave her Son to his bride the Church. She was present with the apostles at Pentecost when the Church was born and the mystical marriage between Christ and his bride was solemnized by the descent of the Holy Spirit.

None of the apostles save John were with Jesus when he did the most important thing in his life atop Golgotha. The beloved disciple alone had stood at the foot of the cross together with Mary while Peter, James, and the rest were in hiding fearing for their lives after they had fled from the Garden of Olives.

Jesus had no trouble remembering his mother when he referred to her as more blessed for hearing the word of God and keeping it than for having borne him in her womb.

I have the impression that you have very little respect for the Mother of our Lord. Perhaps you should follow the example set for us by her cousin Elizabeth when she exclaimed How is it that the mother of my Lord should come to me? Obviously she wasn’t as indifferent as you are towards Mary, who comes to us in and through her divine Son. We have cause to leap with joy as John the Baptist did in his mother’s womb at the sound of Mary’s greeting and as David did when he sighted the ark of the Covenant. Mary is the Mediatrix of all grace: a title none of the apostles would dare presume to claim for themselves.

As the ark of the New Covenant, Mary has a mission which is far greater than that of the apostles, for it belongs to the hypostatic order of redemption. She is more intimately associated with the Redeemer in the work of salvation than any of the apostles were in their earthly ministry. Her contribution to the Incarnation has made all things possible with regard to apostleship. Thus the Church has traditionally invoked Mary as Queen of Apostles. Her fiat serves as the principal norm for true discipleship.

1 January 2010, Feast of Mary Mother of God

Pax vobiscum :harp:

 

[onenow1]

Sorry I should have used the name of Jesus, not God. and yes they do try to diatise her.

No deitasation going on here, except for the babe in the womb.

Luke 1:41-43, “…And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb! And how have I deserved that the Mother of my Lord should come to me”.”

=onenow “Leslie who is the Lord Elizabeth is speaking of in above the verses ? Elizabeth recognizes, the honor the Lord has given to her, Isn’t this obvious in the verse: she asks, how she is deserving of her presence.”

Mary’s response to Elizabeth.

Luke1:
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

=onenow " Wow ! Mary’s been saved already ! ’

48 for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me BLESSED;

=onenow “Can you explain this verse 48 to us and why only Catholics do this?”

49 for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name.

=onenow "What do you suppose these great things the Lord has done for Mary "?

50 And his mercy is on those who fear him from generation to generation.

=onenow

51 He has shown strength with his arm, he has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts,

“All these words are inspired of the Holy Spirit, the words of God.”

Peace, and May God Bless the New Year.
onenow1

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Thank you.

Raphael may be an unfamiliar angel to Leslie . . .

No Raphael is not unfamiliar to Leslie, she learned about him in C school…He is just not one of the angels named in the Bible.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Further proof that you have been defeated and have nothing left to say in defense of your 150 year old belief . . .

PS — 150 years is not a long time in this regard.

Well actually it has only been my belief for 38 years…, get it…a joke…and my dear Zach, you nor any man can defeat a child of the King, for in Him is my rightousness, and strength and being…I just picture you and PR jumping up and bumping bellies and high 5ing each other, and in all honesty it amuses me. You have as yet not proved one thing to me. I am just sick to death of this whole thread, so you enjoy, have a happy new year and keep on keeping on. One day you may be very surprised when you stand before the Father. See ya

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Jesus still is God made man, and Mary still is his mother. The divine Word did not cast his humanity aside when he ascended into heaven to take his place at the right hand of the Father.

Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we will also bear the image of the man of heaven.
1 Corinthians 15, 49

PAX :heaven:

 

[JustaServant]

It saddens me to see lapsed Catholics like Leslie turn a blind eye to the many fine responses she has gotten on this thread.
The Protestant presupposition is: ‘I’m from Missouri, show me in Scripture!’
The Catholic presupposition is: ‘Christ founded a Church that He has protected from error for 2,000 years, She would not lie.’
That is why the doctrines of Mary are usually the last thing the convert or revert accepts - since they are not explicit enough for his or her Protestant sensibilities.
That Jesus’ humanity came from Mary, is a powerful witness to the proper veneration of Mary. Evangelicals see Mary as more of an incidental, rather than integral part of the Incarnation - where God did the whole miracle and just used Mary’s body to birth the Messiah.
The more Marian a Catholic is, usually the more orthodox and thus would not ‘worship’ her. Since she is the Mother of the Church, and her intercessions are so powerful, and indeed central to Christian devotion, she is rightly honored as first in the order of grace. But, for the upteenth time, it is only by virtue of her Divine Son.

Lesle, I was once just like you. Read my testimony in my link. I was raised Catholic, like you. I became an anti-Catholic fundamentalist preacher. I thought I ‘knew everything’ just like you. And when confronted with the truth, I got angry, just like you.
But Leslie, you can shake your fist at the Blessed Mother all you want. You can rail against His Church.
But the waters of Baptism you recieved as child cannot be wiped away. There is a mark on your spirit that will never be removed. You can be ‘re-baptized’ and call yourself a ‘former Catholic’ all you want. You can run, but you can’t hide from God’s love. His love is a love that pursues wherever you go.
The Blessed Mother loves you and she will continue to pray for you to return home.
And someday you will…

 

[Louemma]

Why do the Catholics call Mary “The Sorrowful Mother”?
This don’t make sense to me at all.Reason being she seen Jesus when he rose on the third day.She also knew that not only was he her son,he was her redeemer and through him she,herself had eternal life.So I see Mary as anything but sorrowful.No,I see Mary as The Rejoicing Mother.He was dead but yet he lives and she knew this and I say she knew this before Jesus ever went to the cross.Good Heavens you know Jesus revealed this to his Mother and we know this, because he told his disciples.

 

[JustaServant]

Mary as the “sorrowful Mother,” has its origin in the Biblical prophecy of Simeon at the presentation of Jesus in the Temple, where he states to Mary:

“Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed” (Lk 2:34-35).

Over the centuries, the Church has recognized popular devotion to seven sorrows of Mary:
(1) the Prophecy of Simeon over the Infant Jesus (Lk 2:34);
(2) the Flight into Egypt of the Holy Family (Mt 2:13);
(3) the Loss of the Child Jesus for Three Days (Lk 2:43);
(4) the Meeting of Jesus and Mary along the Way of the Cross (Lk 23:26); (5) the Crucifixion, where Mary stands at the foot of the cross (Jn 19:25);
(6) the Descent from the Cross, where Mary receives the dead body of Jesus in her arms (Mt 27:57); and
(7) the Burial of Jesus. (John 19:40).

 

[Louemma]

Mary as the “sorrowful Mother,” has its origin in the Biblical prophecy of Simeon at the presentation of Jesus in the Temple, where he states to Mary:

Over the centuries, the Church has recognized popular devotion to seven sorrows of Mary:
(1) the Prophecy of Simeon over the Infant Jesus (Lk 2:34);
(2) the Flight into Egypt of the Holy Family (Mt 2:13);
(3) the Loss of the Child Jesus for Three Days (Lk 2:43);
(4) the Meeting of Jesus and Mary along the Way of the Cross (Lk 23:26); (5) the Crucifixion, where Mary stands at the foot of the cross (Jn 19:25);
(6) the Descent from the Cross, where Mary receives the dead body of Jesus in her arms (Mt 27:57); and
(7) the Burial of Jesus. (John 19:40).

I see.She knew the day was coming long before it happened.That would be sad to know something like that about your child.What he was to go through at the end of his earthly life.Poor Mary,to live for many years with that,knowing it would come to pass.

 

[Louemma]

Thomas is the only one that comes to mind and he would not believe until he saw Jesus.Mary I’m sure already believed.How could she not,she raised him and I am certain he explained all to his mother.The Bible may not have that recorded but we know the nature of Jesus from the word and that is why I’m certain she knew.

 

[PRmerger]

Thomas is the only one that comes to mind and he would not believe until he saw Jesus.Mary I’m sure already believed.How could she not,she raised him and I am certain he explained all to his mother.The Bible may not have that recorded but we know the nature of Jesus from the word and that is why I’m certain she knew.

My personal opinion is that many of his women disciples believed before they saw his resurrected body, but Scripture tells us that all of his apostles, with the exception of John, left him alone to die, ran away and hid in the crowds during his Passion and death.

 

[Louemma]

My personal opinion is that many of his women disciples believed before they saw his resurrected body, but Scripture tells us that all of his apostles, with the exception of John, left him alone to die, ran away and hid in the crowds during his Passion and death.

Mary didn’t.She was right there,her and John.

 

[PRmerger]

Mary didn’t.She was right there,her and John.

That she was.

My opinion is that she is called “Our Lady of Sorrows” because–whether she knew her Son would rise or not--she experienced great sorrow watching her Son suffer, be scorned and spit upon, scourged and and beaten and mocked. I believe she walked the path of the Via Dolorosa beside him, *suffering in silence *as he carried the cross and the weight of the world’s sins on his shoulders.

 

[Louemma]

That she was.

My opinion is that she is called “Our Lady of Sorrows” because–whether she knew her Son would rise or not--she experienced great sorrow watching her Son suffer, be scorned and spit upon, scourged and and beaten and mocked. I believe she walked the path of the Via Dolorosa beside him, *suffering in silence *as he carried the cross and the weight of the world’s sins on his shoulders.

I agree but she is not sorrowful now.God will not put anything on a person that is more then they can carry.Perhaps this is why God choose Mary.He made her with this in mind and gave her the strength she was going to need.She is not sorrowful now and I believe if she were to tell us today her view on this,she would tell us it was worth all the suffering to gain eternity through her son Jesus Christ.

 

[PRmerger]

I agree but she is not sorrowful now.God will not put anything on a person that is more then they can carry.Perhaps this is why God choose Mary.He made her with this in mind and gave her the strength she was going to need.She is not sorrowful now and I believe if she were to tell us today her view on this,she would tell us it was worth all the suffering to gain eternity through her son Jesus Christ.

Oh! Is that what you’re asking? If we think Mary is sorrowful now?
[SIGN1]Certainly not!! [/SIGN1] One cannot be sorrowful in heaven when one shares the beatific vision before the eternal throne of God!!

 

[Louemma]

Oh! Is that what you’re asking? If we think Mary is sorrowful now?
[SIGN1]Certainly not!! [/SIGN1] One cannot be sorrowful in heaven when one shares the beatific vision before the eternal throne of God!!

That is why I wondered why the catholics still referred to her as the sorrowful mother.She is the rejoicing Mother now

 

[PRmerger]

That is why I wondered why the catholics still referred to her as the sorrowful mother.She is the rejoicing Mother now

Indeed!

But when we talk about the Sorrowful Mother we’re referring to her sufferings as a mother.

Just like when you talk about Baby Jesus, we all know that you don’t mean you believe Jesus is still a babe!

 

[Louemma]

Indeed!

But when we talk about the Sorrowful Mother we’re referring to her sufferings as a mother.

Just like when you talk about Baby Jesus, we all know that you don’t mean you believe Jesus is still a babe!

He is every Christmas
I know that you are referring to her suffering here but all the suffering she went through is what she was created for(To be the Mother of Jesus)As mother’s we can only relate to a point of her sufferings but I believe Mary knew what the outcome was going to be.I believe Mary knew her son was to suffer in such a way but I also believe that she knew for a fact he would rise up out of that grave.In fact I would go as far as saying any woman to be visited by an Angel,be a virgin with child is most certainly going to know because God revealed his plan to her in the beginning of Jesus’s life on earth.God would certainly reveal to her Jesus’s ending on earth.
That’s something to ponder and yes she did suffer even with knowing because Jesus was her child.

 

[Good_Fella]

Why do the Catholics call Mary “The Sorrowful Mother”?
This don’t make sense to me at all.Reason being she seen Jesus when he rose on the third day.She also knew that not only was he her son,he was her redeemer and through him she,herself had eternal life.So I see Mary as anything but sorrowful.No,I see Mary as The Rejoicing Mother.He was dead but yet he lives and she knew this and I say she knew this before Jesus ever went to the cross.Good Heavens you know Jesus revealed this to his Mother and we know this, because he told his disciples.

At the cross her station keeping
stood the mournful Mother weeping,
close to Jesus to the last.

Through her heart, His sorrow sharing,
all His bitter anguish bearing
now at length the sword had passed.

Oh, how sad and sore distressed
was that Mother highly blessed,
of the sole-Begotten One!

Christ above in torment hangs,
she beneath beholds the pangs
of her dying, glorious Son.

Is there one who would not weep,
whelmed in miseries so deep,
Christ’s dear mother to behold.

Can the human heart refrain
from partaking in her pain,
in that Mother’s pain untold?

Bruised, derided, cursed, defiled,
she beheld her tender Child
All with scourges rent.

For the sins of His own nation,
saw Him hang in desolation,
Till His spirit forth He sent.

From the Stabat Mater Dolorosa

And he saith to them: My soul is sorrowful even unto death;
stay you here and watch."
Mark 14, 34

“And even a sword shall go through thine own soul.”
Luke 2, 35

The invocation of Mary as Our Lady of Sorrows is a commemorative title which serves as a recollection of the spiritual suffering our Blessed Mother experienced through the Passion and Death of her divine Son for the sins of the world. It marks the sorrowful nature of Mary’s predestination to the divine maternity and is made in honour of the Mother of our Lord for all she suffered on account of our sins. Since Mary made perfect satisfaction for our sins through her suffering in association with her Son in the divine order of redemption, a satisfaction of becomingness but not one of strict justice unlike that of our Lord and Saviour, she had to be preserved free from all sin. It was because of the sins of the world and its rejection of Christ that the souls of the Son and the Mother were overwhelmed with sorrow. Mary’s soul could not have been united with the soul of her Son if the Mother were sinful like those for whom our Lord had suffered and died. Jesus died for us because of our inclination to reject God and it was by this very same rejection that he was crucified. How unbecoming it would be for the Mother to be standing at the foot of the cross if she had ever rejected her Son by sinning against God.

Pax Christu :harp:

 

[Louemma]

At the cross her station keeping
stood the mournful Mother weeping,
close to Jesus to the last.

Through her heart, His sorrow sharing,
all His bitter anguish bearing
now at length the sword had passed.

Oh, how sad and sore distressed
was that Mother highly blessed,
of the sole-Begotten One!

Christ above in torment hangs,
she beneath beholds the pangs
of her dying, glorious Son.

Is there one who would not weep,
whelmed in miseries so deep,
Christ’s dear mother to behold.

Can the human heart refrain
from partaking in her pain,
in that Mother’s pain untold?

Bruised, derided, cursed, defiled,
she beheld her tender Child
All with scourges rent.

For the sins of His own nation,
saw Him hang in desolation,
Till His spirit forth He sent.

From the Stabat Mater Dolorosa

And he saith to them: My soul is sorrowful even unto death;
stay you here and watch."
Mark 14, 34

“And even a sword shall go through thine own soul.”
Luke 2, 35

The invocation of Mary as Our Lady of Sorrows is a commemorative title which serves as a recollection of the spiritual suffering our Blessed Mother experienced through the Passion and Death of her divine Son for the sins of the world. It marks the sorrowful nature of Mary’s predestination to the divine maternity and is made in honour of the Mother of our Lord for all she suffered on account of our sins. Since Mary made perfect satisfaction for our sins through her suffering in association with her Son in the divine order of redemption, a satisfaction of becomingness but not one of strict justice unlike that of our Lord and Saviour, she had to be preserved free from all sin. It was because of the sins of the world and its rejection of Christ that the souls of the Son and the Mother were overwhelmed with sorrow. Mary’s soul could not have been united with the soul of her Son if the Mother were sinful like those for whom our Lord had suffered and died. Jesus died for us because of our inclination to reject God and it was by this very same rejection that he was crucified. How unbecoming it would be for the Mother to be standing at the foot of the cross if she had ever rejected her Son by sinning against God.

Pax Christu :harp:

Thank you,the prayer was touching