Mary as Mediatrix?

[CentralFLJames]

I must admit I’d never thought of Christ’s death quite in this fashion. The idea that the Creator God would break his own covenant in order to take the guilt of violating it on himself rather than have his partners in the covenant suffer the consequences…it is utterly poignant.
…

Peace to all
Jacques

We substantially believe a lot of the same thing here.
Let me make one more comment to ratify my prior comment about God making His covenant with Israel with the full knowledge that it would be broken. Recollect God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac and God withholding His hand after Abraham in sorrow but faith was willing to comply. This was to bind humanity to empathize with God’s sorrow in laying down His own Son for humanity and intimately bonding Himself to humanity through suffering and sorrow - God weeps with us.

Note too that God never intrinsically knew “evil” like humans did. It is completely alien to Him - it is just an area He sees as an empty place that is “wrong” and alien to His nature. Humans in a certain way in their desire to know both good and evil have given God a way to understand evil externally through our sufferings and through our repentance - but again not internally. Jesus was God participating in the human experience and again taking on ALL the consequences of sin onto Himself but again never letting it penetrate or taint His soul or Divine Nature. Thus we have a new prototype for humanity - a new Adam (and a new Eve topologically seen in Mary as Daughter Zion and also as bride - The Church - the new arc of God’s people waiting for the 40 weeks of gestation to be reborn into the promised land).

God is not only writing Mosaic Law on our hearts but actually raising our nature to above Adam & Eve’s original unfallen nature (truly making Mary “blessed above all women” – even more blessed than pre-fall Eve). God wants a real and genuine two-way love relationship with humanity. In order to do that He is elevating or nature to His own!! A mere human, barely above animal lacks the capacity to Love God in the way He loves Himself. But God re-making humanity on the divine-human prototype of Jesus elevates us to a nature of literal brother and sister of Christ. That means we not only just have the law written on our hearts but we are Christ like in nature. God has broken the stone tables and our stone hearts. He is firing our hearts with His Divine Fire of Love - The Holy Spirit. The law of Love. **I no longer call you slave but friends’ (John 15:15). ** It is no longer just a matter of obedience - but a full up two way love relationship that is worthy of eternal Beatitude with God.

I really think God has HUGE plans for the 2nd creation and I fully expect His Children will be given a role in helping Him Create it and of course ruling over it and participating it as Divine-Human beings - even higher than the biblical angels that help God in this creation. When one considers that God is infinitely perfect and good is becomes clear that Creation MUST be in a continuous expression of perfection. We are part of that expression and God is making all things new.

James

 

[SHW]

Originally Posted by fuzzylogix
I must admit I’d never thought of Christ’s death quite in this fashion. The idea that the Creator God would break his own covenant in order to take the guilt of violating it on himself rather than have his partners in the covenant suffer the consequences…it is utterly poignant.

It is impossible for God to break His own covenant. The Israelites broke every covenant but God never did. God could not possibly be God if He broke a covenant. This would be against His Divine Nature and therefore it cannot ever happen.

God had mercy on the Israelites and did not totally destroy them because of their transgressions but He still punished them for breaking His covenants with them by other means, such as slavery, desert wandering, etc.

SHW

 

[CentralFLJames]

It is impossible for God to break His own covenant. The Israelites broke every covenant but God never did. God could not possibly be God if He broke a covenant. This would be against His Divine Nature and therefore it cannot ever happen.

God had mercy on the Israelites and did not totally destroy them because of their transgressions but He still punished them for breaking His covenants with them by other means, such as slavery, desert wandering, etc.

SHW

I agree. Let me clarify my comments. The Covenant was broken by the Israelites. Legally, once a covenant is broken by one side or the other it is over. All I was saying is that God took upon Himself the penalty for the broken covenant as well as the penalty of humanity at large’s broken natural covenant due to worship and venerate the Creator for giving us all life. But let me also say that I do not mean to imply universal salvation in any of this - the bounty is paid but the law is still in force and all are still required to leave jail and start living according to its precepts.

James

 

[bluejesuit]

Very good bluejesuit. Correct.

The prefix “co” (co-mediatrix) does not mean “equal” as some of our fundamentalist friends would want to get everyone all spun up over. Nope. It means “with”. It is no different and no less biblical as “Mother with Child” that we see get in the manger scene.

James

Thanks Brother James. I’ll silently orbit this discussion and just observe. I’m very much inspired to write more.

Thanks again.

AM+DG:thumbsup:

 

[SHW]

I agree. Let me clarify my comments. The Covenant was broken by the Israelites. Legally, once a covenant is broken by one side or the other it is over. All I was saying is that God took upon Himself the penalty for the broken covenant as well as the penalty of humanity at large’s broken natural covenant due to worship and venerate the Creator for giving us all life. But let me also say that I do not mean to imply universal salvation in any of this - the bounty is paid but the law is still in force and all are still required to leave jail and start living according to its precepts.

James

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it. SHW

 

[Malachi_18]

I see this type of thing stated often.

How do you reconcile the idea of Mary’s intercession for you with what Paul said:

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

This verse seems to indicate that Christ alone has the divine right of intercession for us, and no other. To assign this right to Mary as well…would that not in effect infringe upon the divine right afforded Christ?

I read somewhere that Catholics call Mary by the title “mediatrix” sometimes. I can’t help but feel that this appears to be a form of usurpation of Christ’s role?

…

And lastly, while they admit that Christ is the One Mediator, they immediately diverge again, following a nice type of slippery slope by reasoning that if we may ask living Christians for help in prayer (which is correct), we may also ask this of the deceased (which I’m not so sure about). This logic is not really consistent or coherent. It is natural to assume that different laws govern the living and the dead.

I’d thus like to counter their last argument from that document with a quote from Ecclesiastes:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

This seems to show that once a person dies, they pretty much become unconcious, “knowing nothing”, until such time as God sees fit to resurrect them (on predestined days of resurrection, when all of mankind is brought to life together). Indeed, if Mary or any of the other saints are alive and interceding in heaven, what need could they have of resurrection?

Would this make the Bible verses that deal with the resurrection invalid or flawed? Or are certain people exempt from having to be unconcious in death? I really know almost nothing of Catholic doctrine, so I’m asking sincerely.

Thanks in advance

Good for you. You seem to be exercising some discernment.

You should know, however, that Ecclesiastes is written from the perspective of this side of Eternity, which is to say we have no direct knowledge of what goes on in heaven except what God has told us in the Bible. Once a person dies it is not that they “know nothing” but that we know nothing about their current affairs. Until such time as we will know as we are known.

I John 3:2 “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

When we get there we will know, but until then we cannot.