Mary "can't"? Why not?

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2ndGen

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“Mary can’t heal you!”
“Mary can’t do anything for you!”
“Mary can’t pray for you!”

Ok, so Mary can’t do this,
but Peter could?
Paul could?
Benny Hinn can?

Why is it that we are taught that whoever believes in Jesus,
they would be able to heal people, EXCEPT Mary?

What excludes Mary
(besides post 16th century humanly derived doctrines)
from being “just” like the rest of us?

Mary can’t do these things that were promised to EVERY Believer?

Why not?

Wasn’t Mary the FIRST Christian and the FIRST Believer?

While some boast of having Jesus “in” them,
Mary is the only one who can literally say that she had Jesus “IN” her.

So why is it that this “handmaid of The Lord”
is the only human being who CAN’T pray for us?

CAN’T heal us in Jesus’ name?

CAN’T do anything for us?

So I could pray for you, I could heal you, I could intercede on your behalf,
me, a lowly sinner, but Mary, who was praised by The Archangel Gabriel as being “full of grace”, with whom God was with, the Mother of our Lord, The Blessed, can’t?

Why “can’t” Mary “can’t”?
 
My :twocents: :

I was told this by our priest: whenever you see a picture of Mary, you will probably see her one of two ways:
  1. With that nice blue dress with the REALLY high waistline (!!! remember this)
2)Holding Baby Jesus.

(There are other depictions, I suppose, at her Son’s crucifixion, etc. the list is probably endless but I think these are the two most popular)

In the 2nd case, it is obvious where Jesus is, there is His mother’s arms.

In the 1st, it is logical to suppose through the position of the waistline in the painting/icon/whatever that Mary is pregnant in that picture and thus Jesus is present through her.

Just something to think about when you think somebody is “worshiping” an icon of Mary.

Just to put this in perspective, as I type this I am thinking of my church, St. Mary’s Episcopal Church, which has a lovely stained glass icon of Mary in the aforementioned blue and red with the high waistband with her hands lifted in supplication. Beautiful!

However, the presence of Christ with these pictures/icons of Mary notwithstanding, your points about how the others were charged with and DID heal others is very interesting and it is very telling that many non-Catholics seem to forget this point.
 
episcogirl said:
My :twocents: :

I was told this by our priest: whenever you see a picture of Mary, you will probably see her one of two ways:
  1. With that nice blue dress with the REALLY high waistline (!!! remember this)
2)Holding Baby Jesus.

(There are other depictions, I suppose, at her Son’s crucifixion, etc. the list is probably endless but I think these are the two most popular)

In the 2nd case, it is obvious where Jesus is, there is His mother’s arms.

In the 1st, it is logical to suppose through the position of the waistline in the painting/icon/whatever that Mary is pregnant in that picture and thus Jesus is present through her.

Just something to think about when you think somebody is “worshiping” an icon of Mary.

Just to put this in perspective, as I type this I am thinking of my church, St. Mary’s Episcopal Church, which has a lovely stained glass icon of Mary in the aforementioned blue and red with the high waistband with her hands lifted in supplication. Beautiful!

However, the presence of Christ with these pictures/icons of Mary notwithstanding, your points about how the others were charged with and DID heal others is very interesting and it is very telling that many non-Catholics seem to forget this point.
Click to expand...
You know something? I love to ask those who belittle Mary where Jesus got the blood that He shed for us.

When I tell them that He got all His hair, His DNA, His flesh and His Blood from Mary
(for no man contributed to his pro-creation),
it’s like slapping them in a face with a big wet cold fish (Christian symbolism not intended, just coincidental!).

Think about it, that very blood He shed that they bathe in symbollically physically came from her and her alone. It had to be pure. It wasn’t impure, then made pure for no bad fruit can come from a bad tree.

So, being that Jesus is the fruit of her womb (according to scripture), what does that make the tree that bore it?

If we can pray for each other, why can’t she pray for us?

“Mary’s dead! The dead can’t pray!” has been the answer.

But she’s seen in heaven by John (who coincidentally is The Apostle who was spared martyrdom for not abandoning Jesus and because he was to care for Mary upon Jesus’ death).

The faithful Christian is rewarded with Jesus’ mother as “those who keep His commandments and witness that Jesus is The Christ” are called the children of The Woman who gave birth to Jesus. (Rev 12;17)

Mary “is” our mother, that is, “if” you are a Christian. Look at the beautiful symbolism of Jesus (Who says He is “The Life”) coming through the womb of Mary in that it is through her womb that our eternal spiritual “Life” comes from Who is Jesus.

Anyway, she “is” alive and “in” Heaven.

For those who don’t believe that prayers are said in Heaven?
(Rev 5;8 & 8:3).

To honor her is not to worship her. We are called to “honor” our mother. And she is our mother.
 
I had never really thought about His blood that way. What a good point.
 
E-Girl…that was a beautiful observation and one I never seen. See? More learning from each other!

Now, think about this…

If you were the child of The American President and a war broke out in a country that was vehemently Anti-American and you caught a plane out of that country, would you leave your mom behind in that country to be ravished by the Anti-Americans?

Of course not! You’d either take her with you or make sure that she got on the next flight out, right?

Now, if we who are lowly sinners would do that for our own mothers, what would make one believe that Jesus, Who is The Son of God, would abandon His mother in a world where His followers would go on to be murdered, beaten, tortured, mutilated and persecuted for their belief in Him? Why “wouldn’t” He spare her from that? She’d be one of the prime targets of that persecution as she gave life to the Man Who would completely wreck The Pharisees world and disrupt the Roman Peace.

I believe with all my heart that Jesus didn’t abandon her to the world He left behind in the birth of His Church.

Revelations 12 tells us that “she was carried away with wings” from the persecution.

I believe that she “is” in Heaven, the mother of the King of Kings, making her the Queen.

And I firmly believe with all my heart and with all my soul that she loves us, that she loves us perfectly, that she loves us as her children, that she wants us all to come to the saving knowledge of her Son and that she prays for us.
 
episcogirl said:
I had never really thought about His blood that way. What a good point.
Click to expand...
The beautiful thing about opening up one’s heart to Mary is that it brings you closer to Jesus.

See? We work to fellowship with our fellow Christians of different denominations, why exclude the First Christian in history?

On top of all of that, if someone loved your mother, would that bring them closer to you? Imagine how much closer a person is to Jesus Christ is that loves His mother when one of His dieing wishes was that we all loved each other (including and “not” excluding His beloved Blessed Mother) as He loved us?

“How” did He love His mother?

“As” a mother.

If we obeyed His wish literally, we’d love her as our mother too because He is our brother and God our mutual Father.

Mary doesn’t take away from Jesus. She adds on to Jesus.

Like I’ve said before, while the anti-Marian is busy explaining to Jesus why he spent so much time belittling her role in Jesus’ life and in her sacrificing her only Son for us, I’ll be running to Mary for my big hug (even though she’ll probably give me a good talking to for being overly aggressive sometimes in defending her! LOL).

Then, she’ll call over the anti-Marian Christian to her and forgive him and give him a hug equally strong to the one she gave me, not putting any of her children above the other.

🙂
 
2ndGen said:
“Mary’s dead! The dead can’t pray!” has been the answer.

.
Click to expand...
Code: 
 Wouldn't a good response to this be, Mt 22:32  "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. He is God of the living, not of the dead."
Isn’t He Mary’s God too, and wouldn’t that mean that she is as alive as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Code: 
 Also, the tranfiguration with Jesus speaking with Moses and Elijah would mean that those who are with God are alive.

 Just a thought.
 
pete_29 said:
Wouldn’t a good response to this be, Mt 22:32 “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. He is God of the living, not of the dead.”

Isn’t He Mary’s God too, and wouldn’t that mean that she is as alive as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Code: 
 Also, the tranfiguration with Jesus speaking with Moses and Elijah would mean that those who are with God are alive.

 Just a thought.
Click to expand...
I’ve asked that on Protestant Forums and was quickly escorted out of the community and banned.

😦

I guess those verses “aren’t” in those particular Christian communities’ bibles.
 
pete_29 said:
Wouldn’t a good response to this be, Mt 22:32 “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. He is God of the living, not of the dead.”

Isn’t He Mary’s God too, and wouldn’t that mean that she is as alive as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Code: 
 Also, the tranfiguration with Jesus speaking with Moses and Elijah would mean that those who are with God are alive.

 Just a thought.
Click to expand...
No, the best one is Matthew 27 when they say “once you die, you’re dead! there are no living saints!”

(another response that got me deleted and banned…scritpure)

Matthew 27:51-53
51
Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,
52
and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
53
and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
 
Mary is the Woman prophesied in Genesis 3:15 as being uniquely “at enmity” with the serpent, the devil.
And this Woman, Mary, who brings for HER seed,
watches with joy as her seed (Jesus) CRUSHES the head of the serpent.

Mary the person on earth was filled to overflowing with the Grace of God. That is what Kecharitomene (full of grace, highly favored) literally means. God the Father saw fit, from all eternity, to predestine and choose Mary of Nazareth to be the vessel / ark in which and from whom God the Son would take flesh.
Personally, she was a woman of tremendous faith who meditated on the word of God and everything connected with Jesus, at all times.

God the Son of God took his flesh from her and in her pure and virginal body and dwelt within her fully God/fully Man for nine whole months. God the Father trusted her to teach and RAISE God the Son, too. That’s a lot of confidence placed in a human being.

Thus it would be grossly unfitting for Mary, the spouse of the Holy Spirit like nobody else ever HAS been or ever WILL be,
to lie rotting in the grave. She is the “Great Sign” prophesied throughout scripture.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
About praying the rosary:

Not only a devotion to The Holy Mother.

Think about the Mysteries. Most of them contemplate the life of Jesus (which, as a mother myself, I know Mary would have been a part!) which is always a worthy thing to contemplate. I think it is two of the Glorious Mysteries which are the Assumption and the Coronation of Mary. Which is mentioned in a previous post in this thread.

I think most non-Catholics do not know that the rosary is more than praying “Hail Mary.”

Among other things used are the Apostles’ Creed and the Our Father. I especially like the Fatima Prayer.

I do use Anglican rosaries as well but I have given away most of my stock as gifts and I have three left but I’m trying to keep them nice to sell at a church bazaar. I made one Catholic Rosary…that one sold just a couple minutes after the last bazaar I attended opened up! Imagine that! And at a “Protestant” church, too…hmmmmm…👍

Maybe I should try selling the Anglican ones at a Catholic Church bazaar…St. Rose does one every spring and fall…:whistle:
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
Mary is the Woman prophesied in Genesis 3:15 as being uniquely “at enmity” with the serpent, the devil.
And this Woman, Mary, who brings for HER seed,
watches with joy as her seed (Jesus) CRUSHES the head of the serpent.

Mary the person on earth was filled to overflowing with the Grace of God. That is what Kecharitomene (full of grace, highly favored) literally means. God the Father saw fit, from all eternity, to predestine and choose Mary of Nazareth to be the vessel / ark in which and from whom God the Son would take flesh.
Personally, she was a woman of tremendous faith who meditated on the word of God and everything connected with Jesus, at all times.

God the Son of God took his flesh from her and in her pure and virginal body and dwelt within her fully God/fully Man for nine whole months. God the Father trusted her to teach and RAISE God the Son, too. That’s a lot of confidence placed in a human being.

Thus it would be grossly unfitting for Mary, the spouse of the Holy Spirit like nobody else ever HAS been or ever WILL be,
to lie rotting in the grave. She is the “Great Sign” prophesied throughout scripture.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
Click to expand...
You’re preaching to The Choir…but keep on! I like it!

🙂
 
episcogirl said:
About praying the rosary:

Not only a devotion to The Holy Mother.

Think about the Mysteries. Most of them contemplate the life of Jesus (which, as a mother myself, I know Mary would have been a part!) which is always a worthy thing to contemplate. I think it is two of the Glorious Mysteries which are the Assumption and the Coronation of Mary. Which is mentioned in a previous post in this thread.

I think most non-Catholics do not know that the rosary is more than praying “Hail Mary.”

Among other things used are the Apostles’ Creed and the Our Father. I especially like the Fatima Prayer.

I do use Anglican rosaries as well but I have given away most of my stock as gifts and I have three left but I’m trying to keep them nice to sell at a church bazaar. I made one Catholic Rosary…that one sold just a couple minutes after the last bazaar I attended opened up! Imagine that! And at a “Protestant” church, too…hmmmmm…👍

Maybe I should try selling the Anglican ones at a Catholic Church bazaar…St. Rose does one every spring and fall…:whistle:
Click to expand...
I hope you enjoy this!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=208472

Also, I was once attacked by a non-Catholic Christian who just let me have it for being a Catholic who loved Mary.

She stated that we didn’t mention Jesus in the prayer. I honestly didn’t know how to respond. When I looked at the prayers said in The Rosary, for the first time I realized the whole prayer is basically about Jesus. It refers to Mary when asking her to intercede for us, but the rest of the Hail Mary is literally scripture!

On top of that, Jesus is mentioned (in the Hail Mary, the Our Father and the Glory Be) about 3 times more than Mary is!

Jesus is mentioned equally with Mary in the Hail Mary.

And what we praise her for is for her work for Jesus.

It’s never about her, it’s always about Jesus.

Did you ever notice how jealous some Christians are for Jesus? They don’t even mention God or The Holy Spirit anymore. It’s all just Jesus. Even Jesus placed God The Father from which He was begotten over Himself.

Jesus isn’t about excluding anybody and loving just Him,
but about including everybody in our love for Him.

Amen?
 
2ndGen said:
I hope you enjoy this!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=208472

Also, I was once attacked by a non-Catholic Christian who just let me have it for being a Catholic who loved Mary.

She stated that we didn’t mention Jesus in the prayer. I honestly didn’t know how to respond. When I looked at the prayers said in The Rosary, for the first time I realized the whole prayer is basically about Jesus. It refers to Mary when asking her to intercede for us, but the rest of the Hail Mary is literally scripture!

On top of that, Jesus is mentioned (in the Hail Mary, the Our Father and the Glory Be) about 3 times more than Mary is!

Jesus is mentioned equally with Mary in the Hail Mary.

And what we praise her for is for her work for Jesus.

It’s never about her, it’s always about Jesus.

Did you ever notice how jealous some Christians are for Jesus? They don’t even mention God or The Holy Spirit anymore. It’s all just Jesus. Even Jesus placed God The Father from which He was begotten over Himself.

Jesus isn’t about excluding anybody and loving just Him,
but about including everybody in our love for Him.

Amen?
Click to expand...
Amen.

I have to say that some of my family members who are Baptist do seem to be a bit “jealous” of Jesus…
 
By the way…Jesus is mentioned several hundred times in The Hail Mary.
 
episcogirl said:
Amen.

I have to say that some of my family members who are Baptist do seem to be a bit “jealous” of Jesus…
Click to expand...
I kind of could see where their coming from and from the outside, it’s admirable, but when one scratches beneath the surface, we have to understand that Jesus is about our loving everybody especially in His name.
 
2ndGen said:
Did you like the Hail Mary, Anatomy of a Prayer I wrote?
Click to expand...
Yes, in fact, looking at this

"Hail [Mary] full of grace,
The Lord is with thee,

Luke 1:28
And the angel being come in, said unto her:
“Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.”

which of course if from that “Anatomy of a Prayer”

That particular part is the basis of the fact that Mary is sinless, is it not? The “full of grace” part…it has to do with the actual Greek word used which I think is special in some way.
 
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