Mary = Co-Redeemer or Co-Redemptrix

[kyrie100]

Dear All,
I am doing an exposition of the Roman Catholic Faith and I’m struggling to find some information about Mary - that is a lot of information out there, but I’m struggling to find quotes or primary sources of these doctrines (i.e. from the mouths/writings of popes/ the Vatican)

I have read Mary being called the Co-Redeemer and also the Co-Redemptrix? Some say that Catholics need both Mary and Jesus to be saved (Co-Redeemer). Other say that her title Co-Redemptrix is to honor her position as being something like a co-worker of the redeemer (Jesus), but she is not a co-redeemer (i.e. Jesus only)?? i’m confused…which is which?

Is the above mentioned or thoroughly explains

1. What exactly her title is
2. What it means - defined

Looking for primary resources

• Catechism of the Catholic Church
• Mentioned by Popes
• Vatican Documents

Thanks. Appreciate if someone finds anything they can reply asap.

Background.
I was raised Catholic. Moved over to the Protestant side because I believe more in the scriptures and than on the traditions which cannot be proven (from other sources other than the Catholic church), but always seeking. Taking 2 years off work and enrolled myself in Bible College. The professors like to call me a good Berean because I don’t just take someone’s word for it, I seek the scripture for myself. Currently also doing church history and doing extra work on the side to find out from Catholic’s point of view. I believe in the Unity of Christianity - we are suppose to grow together as the body of Christ and not as separate denominations. We can all learn from other another.

 

[Michael1978]

14 I am writing you about these matters, although I hope to visit you soon. 15But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. 16Undeniably great is the mystery of devotion,

Who was manifested in the flesh,

vindicated in the spirit,

seen by angels,

proclaimed to the Gentiles,

believed in throughout the world,

taken up in glory.

1 Timothy 3:14-16

The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the Bible alone. So those “traditions which cannot be proven” that you speak of come from the authority of the only church founded by Christ.

Here are some links for you to read on the topic you are researching:

catholic.com/magazine/articles/mary-mother-of-salvation

catholic.com/tracts/mary-mother-of-god

You can also do a keyword search on catholic.com

You can also search the Catechism online and Vatican documents on the Vatican website.

 

[kyrie100]

Thank you very much Michael for the links. It really helps.

Quote:
" The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the Bible alone. So those “traditions which cannot be proven” that you speak of come from the authority of the only church founded by Christ. "

I agree…but the church is the body of Christ. Every believer, not just the Catholic church.
It will do good for both sides to learn from each other. I’m not here to argue Catholic/Protestant, I needed sources and wasn’t’ sure where to look.

By the way, in case you’re wondering, I’m actually asking coz I’m arguing that Catholics don’t see Mary as the Co-Redeemer (Jesus +Mary), but rather as the Co-Redemptrix (like a co-worker). Good one for actually trying to fight for ya all.

Rather than encouraging someone to seek (historical text, etc), you try to shut me up just by saying that only the church has the authority founded by Christ. There is controversy with regard to the Greek words used for Peter and Church (Petros and Petra) too, but that’s another story. Appreciate some respect.

Thank you for writing back.

 

[Barbkw]

In order for God to become flesh, He needed a woman to give Him birth. In this way, Mary is the world’s co-redeemer with Jesus.

Their union fulfills the prophecy in Genesis as Jesus reverses the sin of Adam and Eve.

Genesis 3:15

I will put enmity between you and the woman,

and between your offspring and hers;

They will strike at your head,

while you strike at their heel.* g

G continues:

• [3:15] They will strike…at their heel: the antecedent for “they” and “their” is the collective noun “offspring,” i.e., all the descendants of the woman.

Christian tradition has seen in this passage, however, more than unending hostility between snakes and human beings.

The snake was identified with the devil (Wis 2:24; Jn 8:44; Rev 12:9; 20:2), whose eventual defeat seemed implied in the verse.

Because “the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil” (1 Jn 3:8), the passage was understood as the first promise of a redeemer for fallen humankind, the protoevangelium.

Irenaeus of Lyons (ca. A.D. 130–200), in his Against Heresies 5.21.1, followed by several other Fathers of the Church, interpreted the verse as referring to Christ, and cited Gal 3:19 and 4:4 to support the reference.

Another interpretive translation is ipsa, “she,” and is reflected in Jerome’s Vulgate. “She” was thought to refer to Mary, the mother of the messiah.

In Christian art Mary is sometimes depicted with her foot on the head of the serpent.

 

[kyrie100]

Irenaeus of Lyons (ca. A.D. 130–200), in his Against Heresies 5.21.1, followed by several other Fathers of the Church, interpreted the verse as referring to Christ, and cited Gal 3:19 and 4:4 to support the reference.

Another interpretive translation is ipsa, “she,” and is reflected in Jerome’s Vulgate. “She” was thought to refer to Mary, the mother of the messiah.
G continues:

Thanks Barbkw! Is there anyone online I can find this. I can’t exactly footnote on my essay this forum and your name on my paper

 

[ConstantineTG]

I think the term would cause a lot of people to fall into error, and would rather avoid it. Most people won’t sit and listen to a 10 minute explanation of the terms, so if the titles given to Mary are not self explanatory, best not to risk many falling into error.

Through Mary, Christ was born. Redemption is bought by the death of Christ on the cross. It is by Mary’s cooperation with God that all these things are made possible. But certainly she brings no salvation on her own. But she also is a great example for every Christian on how to attain salvation, by being totally submissive to God.

 

[Della]

Two books that you may want read, carefully because they are quite theologically deep and dense are: “The Glories of Mary” by St. Alphonsus de Liguori and “True Devotion to Mary” by St. Louis-Marie de Montfort. Both give arguments for the Catholic understanding of Mary’s place in salvation. I hope that helps.

 

[kyrie100]

Thank you so much. You have all been so delightfully helpful!

Also, ConstantineTG, I have to define the terms, even if it takes a long time. At least throw it out there and if my Professor wants to talk to me, he can. I already had a minor argument with him in class about it If I’m going to do an exposition, there will be one of the things I’m sure he will be looking out for.

I respect Mary, always have. I respect her for qualities she has (Humility, Faith, Meditation, Reflection, Courage).

A character study I did on Mary last semester if you want to read:
filehosting.org/file/details/286122/Character_Study_-_Mary.doc

 

[Barbkw]

usccb.org/bible/genesis/3

NABRE

 

[Barbkw]

You will find more material on Mary in the Catechism

scborromeo.org/ccc/index/m.htm

The full text on St. Irenaeus of Lyons “Against Heresies” Book 5, Chapter 21, Paragraph1

newadvent.org/fathers/0103.htm

 

[kyrie100]

You are the best!

Okay, overload now. Thanks all.
Will quote what I need and research the rest next month- break!!

 

[Myqyl]

There were several movements to give Mary these titles, but to my knowledge they never went beyond people wishing it so. Mary holds a very dear place in my heart, I pray the Rosary several times a day, but Jesus is my Savior. Period

While you are doing your Bible study, I’d suggest you look very closely at John 6… It was one (of many) chapters that brought me back from my Bible study with the non-Catholic Christians, to the compiler and guardian of the Bible for the past 2000 years. Don’t be surprised if at the end of your journey you find yourself back in the Catholic Church…

May God bless and guide you

 

[kyrie100]

Will go whereever the Lord takes me.
Already uprooted myself from 3 countries…

If any of you are willing to let me “harass” you with more question in future, could you add me to contact and friend request Thanks

 

[Barbkw]

While you are doing your Bible study, I’d suggest you look very closely at John 6… It was one (of many) chapters that brought me back from my Bible study with the non-Catholic Christians, to the compiler and guardian of the Bible for the past 2000 years. May God bless and guide you

While reading his “Against Heresies” on Mary, consider reading Irenaeus’ Book 5 Chapter 2 Verse 2-3. Irenaeus of Lyons was an Early Church Father who lived from 140 to 202 AD.
Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp, who in turn was a disciple of the Apostle John.

newadvent.org/fathers/0103502.htm

 

[Della]

It may also help you to know that the Church has defined very few titles for Mary. There are devotional titles the Church doesn’t object to, but hasn’t formally approved, either. Such titles seem to come and go from popular piety. As Myqyl cited, there was an effort on the part of some theologians and popularists in the Church to give Mary the title of Co-Redemptrix, a commission was set up in Rome to look into it, and they decided that it added nothing to our knowledge of Christ (which is what the Marian doctrines/dogmas/titles are supposed to do), that it would be devisive in that our Protestant brethren would not understand it, nor could they see a burning need for such a title at this point. It seems the Holy Spirit agreed because the movement to add this title to Mary has largely died out.

 

[kyrie100]

It may also help you to know that the Church has defined very few titles for Mary. There are devotional titles the Church doesn’t object to, but hasn’t formally approved, either. Such titles seem to come and go from popular piety. As Myqyl cited, there was an effort on the part of some theologians and popularists in the Church to give Mary the title of Co-Redemptrix, a commission was set up in Rome to look into it, and they decided that it added nothing to our knowledge of Christ (which is what the Marian doctrines/dogmas/titles are supposed to do), that it would be devisive in that our Protestant brethren would not understand it, nor could they see a burning need for such a title at this point. It seems the Holy Spirit agreed because the movement to add this title to Mary has largely died out.

Wait…it’s not her official title? I thought it was. Della…source source.

 

[Barbkw]

I think her official title in the Church is the Blessed Virgin Mother.

 

[kyrie100]

I think her official title in the Church is the Blessed Virgin Mother.

yeah…not what I meant. I meant…I thought she was also official known as the Co-redemptrix and is used interchangeably. But that was just what I read on the Internet, so I could be wrong…

 

[Barbkw]

yeah…not what I meant. I meant…I thought she was also official known as the Co-redemptrix and is used interchangeably. But that was just what I read on the Internet, so I could be wrong…

In the Early Church she was called the Theotokos.

Use of Theotokos in the early Christian Church

Many Fathers of the early Christian Church used the title Theotokos for Mary since at least the third century AD.

Origen (d. 254) is often cited as the earliest author to use Theotokos for Mary (Socrates, Ecclesiastical History 7.32 citing Origen’s Commentary on Romans) but the text upon which this assertion is based may not be genuine.

Dionysius of Alexandria used Theotokos in about 250, in an epistle to Paul of Samosata.

Athanasius of Alexandria in 330, Gregory the Theologian in 370, John Chrysostom in 400, and Augustine all used Theotokos.

Theodoret wrote in 436 that calling the Virgin Mary Theotokos is an apostolic tradition.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theotokos#Use_of_Theotokos_in_the_early_Christian_Church

 

[Barbkw]

yeah…not what I meant. I meant…I thought she was also official known as the Co-redemptrix and is used interchangeably. But that was just what I read on the Internet, so I could be wrong…

I think you should be aware that althou the word Co-Redemptrix may be used in the Church, Catholics don’t interpret the word in the same way that protestants do.

Non-catholic Christians get all freaked out over the title because they interpret the title differently than Catholics.