Mary Co-Redemptrix Poll

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It adds clarity to the truth about Mary. She couldn’t be Full of Grace unless she was free of ALL sin. God created her that way and she, of her own free will, remained that way. Where Eve said NO to God, Mary said YES. She is called the Second Eve. Jesus calls her Woman, which means Mother of ALL. God called her Woman in the Garden right after the Fall of Adam and Eve. God said it, I believe it and that settles it! ( I had a magnet for my refrigerator that said that)
Memaw, I love your no-nonsense answers!

But how does it reveal Jesus? That is an important question to think about.

I think it reveals His mercy and love…how much he can do in a soul that completely surrenders to Him.

Just like Adam was perfectly joined to Eve so that it says he thought of her as ‘bone of my bone, flesh on my flesh’, I think Jesus, as the second Adam, felt this way about Mary. She was the Bride of the Holy Spirit. She was perfectly joined to Christ in His mission. Her flesh clothed Him. Her womb served as His first home in this world. her milk fed and bourished Him. Mary can look at Jesus and say “You are bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh…”

Her prayers accompanied His mission and she stood at the foot of the cross like a Priest offering His sacrifice to the Father. This adds to the Church’s understanding of the Lay priesthood because it shows how the congregation is like Mary, at the foot of the altar offering the sacrifice in union with Christ the High priest.

Mary shows us the path to unity in mind, heart and spirit to Christ. She reveals His heart by being His 'magnifyer".
“My soul magnifies the Lord”.
 
It adds clarity to the truth about Mary. She couldn’t be Full of Grace unless she was free of ALL sin. God created her that way and she, of her own free will, remained that way. Where Eve said NO to God, Mary said YES. She is called the Second Eve. Jesus calls her Woman, which means Mother of ALL. God called her Woman in the Garden right after the Fall of Adam and Eve. God said it, I believe it and that settles it! ( I had a magnet for my refrigerator that said that)
The Church does not need a new and potentially divisive title to do any of that.
 
What has the Church fouled up in teaching about Mary that such a title is needed now?
 
The Church does not need a new and potentially divisive title to do any of that.
Thats your opinion. I think I will let the Holy spirit decide that one, Who are we to tell The Holy Spirit what to do. I am sure many thought the Dogma of the Immaculate Conceptions would be divisive in 1854, (and some still do) but that didn’t stop the Action of the Holy Spirit. We can either accept the truth as taught by Jesus thru the Catholic Church with the authority given it by Jesus or we can cry about it. Lets just wait and see what happens and then thank God for HIS guidance. HE can’t be wrong.
 
What has the Church fouled up in teaching about Mary that such a title is needed now?
I can see you don’t really understand the Catholic Faith. The Church has never nor ever can “foul-up” anything. The church only clarifies what it already believes and that is just what a dogma is. Nothing new.
 
Halo,

Let’s put it in this way, replacing HAIL to HELLO.

Luke 1:28. And coming to her, he said, “HELLO, full of grace! The Lord is with you.”

Matthew 26:49. Immediately he went over to Jesus and said, “HELLO, Rabbi!” and he kissed him.

Matthew 27:29. Weaving a crown out of thorns, they placed it on his head, and a reed in his right hand. And kneeling before him, they mocked him, saying, “HELLO, King of the Jews!”

John 19:3. And they came to him and said, “HELLO, King of the Jews!” And they struck him repeatedly.

I think as you read this it sounds funny.😃
 
What has the Church fouled up in teaching about Mary that such a title is needed now?
For one thing most of the clergy I know hardly mention Mary out of some notion that mentioning her will take away from Jesus or, just like many of the Protestants I see posting here I feel they think Marian devotion is equal to any other devotion, so there seems to be widespread misunderstanding about the 'Universal Motherhood" concept.

Many Catholic Churches in our area do not crown her anymore…or do so in a limited way. I believe she should be crowned in every home and that would bring so much healing to families!

Marian Apparitions are not talked about as if they don’t really matter at all (I mean Chruch approved ones), Rosary groups are dwindling in our area. I get a sense that Priests are not truly tied to Mary, loving her like Jesus did. And I feel that maybe why the Priesthood is in such trouble.

Notice how Satan attacked the feminibe figure in the garden inorder to get at the more obvious target of Adam…well, the same thing still happens. Separate the faithful from mary and you have separated then from the Son.

The layity similarily is split…there are always hard core Marian devotees, but many ssem to see devotion to Mary as optional.
Many Marian Dogmas previously taught are not totally believed in by layity…or not understood.

I think the Church here in America has really fallen short in showing her honor which, to me, shows that the there is a separation from Jesus as well. If Jesus is in the church there would be more love for the Mother.The two go hand in hand or Heart in Heart might be a better way of saying it…
 
I can see you don’t really understand the Catholic Faith. The Church has never nor ever can “foul-up” anything. The church only clarifies what it already believes and that is just what a dogma is. Nothing new.
So what is lacking in all that the Church has already clarified re Mary that she needs a new title to make up for it?
 
For one thing most of the clergy I know hardly mention Mary out of some notion that mentioning her will take away from Jesus or, just like many of the Protestants I see posting here I feel they think Marian devotion is equal to any other devotion, so there seems to be widespread misunderstanding about the 'Universal Motherhood" concept.

Many Catholic Churches in our area do not crown her anymore…or do so in a limited way. I believe she should be crowned in every home and that would bring so much healing to families!

Marian Apparitions are not talked about as if they don’t really matter at all (I mean Chruch approved ones), Rosary groups are dwindling in our area. I get a sense that Priests are not truly tied to Mary, loving her like Jesus did. And I feel that maybe why the Priesthood is in such trouble.

Notice how Satan attacked the feminibe figure in the garden inorder to get at the more obvious target of Adam…well, the same thing still happens. Separate the faithful from mary and you have separated then from the Son.

The layity similarily is split…there are always hard core Marian devotees, but many ssem to see devotion to Mary as optional.
Many Marian Dogmas previously taught are not totally believed in by layity…or not understood.

I think the Church here in America has really fallen short in showing her honor which, to me, shows that the there is a separation from Jesus as well. If Jesus is in the church there would be more love for the Mother.The two go hand in hand or Heart in Heart might be a better way of saying it…
A personal devotion to Mary is not required of Catholics and not having one is not going to make you more likely to be influenced by Satan.

No one has to believe in any apparitions - not even approved ones.
 
Thats your opinion. I think I will let the Holy spirit decide that one, Who are we to tell The Holy Spirit what to do. I am sure many thought the Dogma of the Immaculate Conceptions would be divisive in 1854, (and some still do) but that didn’t stop the Action of the Holy Spirit. We can either accept the truth as taught by Jesus thru the Catholic Church with the authority given it by Jesus or we can cry about it. Lets just wait and see what happens and then thank God for HIS guidance. HE can’t be wrong.
Trick is being sure that if it is ever approved it is a work of the HS.

The delay may be the real work of God.
 
Halo,

I guess this comment of mine should be in other thread, but all questions goes directly to the source of the misunderstanding THE CHURCH. Still I’ll post it here.

I believe in the Holy Catholic Church. When a Christian believes in what the Church teaches, he follows and obeys Christ because the Church is His Body. And the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Timothy 3:15. But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.)

(Ephesians 1:21-23. far above every principality, authority, power, and dominion, and every name that is named not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.) The scripture associating the Church with Christ. Christ is saying out the Church is also His body.

(Ephesians 5:21-32. Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body. As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. So (also) husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.)
Christ and His Church one just like a husband and a wife. You can’t have one without the other. In order to know Christ fully you have to know His Church, in order to know His Church you have to know Christ. Without one of them you can’t know the complete Christ. Remember good old Saul? He was Jewish Zealot. A well educated Jew. He persecuted Christians. He wanted to kill Christians. While he was on the Road to Damascus he fell to ground because of the light (Acts 9:4). And what did Christ told Saul? Why are you persecuting Me. Look at what Christ said. Why didn’t Christ say, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting the people in My Church? He said why are you persecuting Me, because He is showing you the inter-relationship between the Church and Christ. They are one and the same. You can’t have one without the other.

So Catholic should and must obey without question. Like a sheep to a shepherd. That is why Christ said to Peter “Feed my lambs…Tend my sheep,…Feed my sheeps,”. We firmly believe the Church is under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Believe it or not.
 
So what is lacking in all that the Church has already clarified re Mary that she needs a new title to make up for it?
Co-Redemptrix is a title given to Mary to honor her co-operation with God in bringing our Savior to earth in order to redeem us. She is NOT the co-redeemer. It was God’s plan to create Mary for the Mother of Jesus. She fully co-operated with God. The Church has ALWAYS taught that. There is nothing “new” about this. Three persons in ONE GOD was taught by the Church from the beginning but the title “Trinity” was givin it by the Church in the Fourth Century. Protestants, (at least most of them) don’t seem to have a problem with that,
What makes you think anything is “lacking” in the Church??? Maybe its us thats lacking.
 
A personal devotion to Mary is not required of Catholics and not having one is not going to make you more likely to be influenced by Satan.

No one has to believe in any apparitions - not even approved ones.
I got news for you, the Church does REQUIRE us to have devotion to Mary. Why do you think the Dogma’s of The Immaculate Conception and the Annunciation were proclaimed a Dogma. All Catholics have to believe it. The Church already has to many pick and choose catholics, please don’t tell me you are one too.

As for private revelations, (I only refer to approved ones), the Church does not require we believe them but She does say they are “worthy of belief.” which is the same as putting her seal of approval on them. They have been studied by the Church and found free of error. But as far as I’m concerned if God sends the Mother of Jesus to earth to tell us something, I think we’d be very wise to listen.
 
I got news for you, the Church does REQUIRE us to have devotion to Mary. Why do you think the Dogma’s of The Immaculate Conception and the Annunciation were proclaimed a Dogma. All Catholics have to believe it. The Church already has to many pick and choose catholics, please don’t tell me you are one too.

As for private revelations, (I only refer to approved ones), the Church does not require we believe them but She does say they are “worthy of belief.” which is the same as putting her seal of approval on them. They have been studied by the Church and found free of error. But as far as I’m concerned if God sends the Mother of Jesus to earth to tell us something, I think we’d be very wise to listen.
Sister Lucia’s Beatification Process to Beg(name removed by moderator)ope Waves 5-Year Waiting Period

VATICAN CITY, FEB. 13, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI announced he will dispense with the five-year waiting period established by Canon Law to open the cause of beatification of Sister Lucia, one of the three Fatima visionaries.

The news was announced today in the cathedral of Coimbra, Portugal, by Cardinal José Saraiva Martins, prefect of the Congregation for Saints’ Causes, on the third anniversary of the Carmelite’s death.
The Holy Father dispensed with the established waiting period once before for the cause of Pope John Paul II. Benedict XVI made the announcement on May 13, the feast of Our Lady of Fatima, some 42 days after the Pontiff’s death in 2005.

John Paul II waived the waiting period in the case of Blessed Teresa of Calcutta. The blessed died Sept. 5, 1997, and was beatified by John Paul II on Oct. 19, 2003.

A communiqué of the Vatican press office states: “Benedict XVI, taking into account the petition presented by Bishop Albino Mamede Cleto of Coimbra, and supported by numerous bishops and faithful from all parts of the world, has revoked the five-year waiting period established by the canonical norms (cf. Article 9 of the ‘Normae Servandae’), and he has allowed for the diocesan phase of the Carmelite’s cause of beatification to begin three years after her death.”

Apparitions

Lucia de Jesus dos Santos was 10 years old when she said she saw for the first time, on May 13, 1917, a lady whom she later identified as the Blessed Virgin Mary, in the Cova de Iria.

She saw the vision with her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto, who were beatified by John Paul II in Fatima, in 2000.

In a pastoral letter dated Oct. 13, 1930, the bishop of Leiria-Fatima, José Alves Correia da Silva, declared the apparitions of Fatima worthy of faith and allowed public devotion. Since then, the shrine has become a center of spirituality and pilgrimage of international scope.

Born in Aljustrel in 1907, Lucia moved to Oporto in 1921, and at 14 was admitted as a boarder in the School of the Sisters of St. Dorothy in Vilar, on the city’s outskirts.

On Oct. 24, 1925, she entered the Institute of the Sisters of St. Dorothy and at the same time was admitted as a postulant in the congregation’s convent in Tuy, Spain, near the Portuguese border. She made her first vows on Oct. 3, 1928, and her perpetual vows on Oct. 3, 1934, receiving the name Sister Mary of the Sorrowful Mother.

She returned to Portugal in 1946 and two years later entered the Carmelite convent of St. Teresa in Coimbra, where she made her profession as a Discalced Carmelite on May 31, 1949, taking the name Sister Maria Lucia of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart.

She wrote two volumes, one entitled “Memories” and the other “Appeals of the Fatima Message.” In her writings, she recounts how the Virgin Mary and Child Jesus appeared to her on other occasions, years after the initial apparitions.

The mortal remains of the Carmelite were moved in 2006 to the Shrine of Fatima. The body of the nun, who died at age 97, is buried next to Jacinta. Francisco is buried in the same basilica.
 
I got news for you, the Church does REQUIRE us to have devotion to Mary. Why do you think the Dogma’s of The Immaculate Conception and the Annunciation were proclaimed a Dogma. All Catholics have to believe it. The Church already has to many pick and choose catholics, please don’t tell me you are one too.

As for private revelations, (I only refer to approved ones), the Church does not require we believe them but She does say they are “worthy of belief.” which is the same as putting her seal of approval on them. They have been studied by the Church and found free of error. But as far as I’m concerned if God sends the Mother of Jesus to earth to tell us something, I think we’d be very wise to listen.
The Church requires we accept all official teachings - including those about Mary.

The Church does NOT require any Catholic to have a personal devotion to her.

When the Church says an apparition is ‘worthy of belief’ it is more of a stamp that it does not contradict any truths of the Church. It does not in anyway bind all Catholics to believe them.
 
I got news for you, the Church does REQUIRE us to have devotion to Mary. Why do you think the Dogma’s of The Immaculate Conception and the Annunciation were proclaimed a Dogma. **All Catholics have to believe it. **The Church already has to many pick and choose catholics, please don’t tell me you are one too.

As for private revelations, (I only refer to approved ones), the Church does not require we believe them but She does say they are “worthy of belief.” which is the same as putting her seal of approval on them. They have been studied by the Church and found free of error. But as far as I’m concerned if God sends the Mother of Jesus to earth to tell us something, I think we’d be very wise to listen.
And on And on And on…ad nauseum…

All Catholics must accept the Church’s teaching, however Catholics are free to pray and worship anyway they choose within the context of the Church. So if I, as a believing Catholic, choose to pray to the Father as directed by His Son Jesus I am well within my rights. If I choose to not pray to Mary for her intercession, I am still within my rights. This does not mean I do not love her, or venerate her, or deny the Church. It simply means I utilize different avenues and graces than others.

You see the two are not mutually exclusive.

I will say this. If anything proves that declaring such a title will be trouble, this thread and the other like it does.
I can just see Our Blessed Mother now, head in her hands and sorrowing that her children feel they must battle so vehemently over something that would add nothing to the glory of her Son, or His Father.

Peace
James
 
And on And on And on…ad nauseum…

All Catholics must accept the Church’s teaching, however Catholics are free to pray and worship anyway they choose within the context of the Church. So if I, as a believing Catholic, choose to pray to the Father as directed by His Son Jesus I am well within my rights. If I choose to not pray to Mary for her intercession, I am still within my rights. This does not mean I do not love her, or venerate her, or deny the Church. It simply means I utilize different avenues and graces than others.

You see the two are not mutually exclusive.

I will say this. If anything proves that declaring such a title will be trouble, this thread and the other like it does.
I can just see Our Blessed Mother now, head in her hands and sorrowing that her children feel they must battle so vehemently over something that would add nothing to the glory of her Son, or His Father.

Peace
James
:blessyou: :harp: :harp: :amen: :harp: :harp:

:clapping: :clapping:
 
The Church requires we accept all official teachings - including those about Mary.

The Church does NOT require any Catholic to have a personal devotion to her.

When the Church says an apparition is ‘worthy of belief’ it is more of a stamp that it does not contradict any truths of the Church. It does not in anyway bind all Catholics to believe them.
That is what I said in the first place but like I also said we would be very foolish to ignore Our Lady.
Also to coldly “accept” an official teaching and have no devotion to Mary because of it, just doesn’t make any sense to me at all. Seems to me there is something lacking in that. The loss is yours my dear.
 
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