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Eilish_Maura
Guest
The Church studies these and decides to approve them or not is done to help the faithful know what ones can be safely believed in - not which ones should be believed in.
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Memaw
Guest
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Memaw
Guest
Again, misunderstandings…Public Revelation means ALL that Jesus revealed and taught to the Apostles, that has been passed down to us thru Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture in the teachings of the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOLOSTIC CHURCH. founded by Jesus Christ while HE was still here on earth. Public" meaning it is for the whole Church for all time till the end of the world. Public Revelation ended when the last Apostle died. Meaning there will never be anything added to what Jesus taught His Apostles. NO one will ever have the power to change that and the Catholic Church has solidly protected the teachings of Christ for 2,000 years. The teachings of Public Revelation is binding on all Catholics and should be on ALL people.
Private revelation, meaning given to someone in a private way, even if there are others around to witness it, is NOT part of Public Revelation and if it goes against Public Revelation in ANY way it is not ever approved by the Church. Being a private revelation does NOT mean it cannot be made public, (known to others, even to the whole Church.) These are not binding as they were not part of Public Revelation, But if God sends the Mother of HIS SON to us with a message from Heaven, and the Church approves it then we would be very wise to listen to what she says. And yes, approved private revelations can and are honored by the Church in many ways, ie: The Sacred Heart of Jesus, The Miraculous Medal, The Rosary, Lourdes, Fatima, The Immaculate Heart of Mary, and others. Churches, towns, hospitals, schools and even people can be named after them, thats fine, Private doesn’t mean keep it hidden.
If your Catholic, I hope you get to know your faith much better, and if your not Catholic, I hope this gives you a better understanding of what we mean by Public Revelation and private revelation. Maybe you should become Paul the Seeker.
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CradleCath
Guest
Right. The Church tells us which apparitions are valid & expects the faithful to be intelligent enough to take heed of the messages given.
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CradleCath
Guest
Excellent post. Hopefully, those that need to understand this…will. To ignore God’s Messengers is not very wise. .
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
Apparitions - even approved ones - can be ignored with NO NEGATIVE EFFECTS.
The Church does NOT teach otherwise.
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GraceDK
Guest
James! You rock brother! (hope you can say that in English/ I’m not American)
Halleluja, your post just made me happy…
I often feel alone with my quest for a simple, holy, apostolic faith that I can just have in peace.
We know that the first Christians prayed the Our Father three times a day… did not let anyone judge them on the basis of which holidays and sabbaths they preferred to keep, what they liked to eat and when… and so on and so forth…
But sometimes I think we forget this apostolic freedom of the first Christians… all things are made complicated and but into heavy systems… we have a Vatican where people sit and have politically correct audiences or lengthy discourses instead of dropping their robes and stepping out into the streets to minister to crowds and heal the sick.
The Gospel is really simple and its beautiful in its simplicity. Jesus could have told us to become new rabbis who made halacha upon halacha, new mishah… new books on how to go around the simple laws layed down in the Bible… But He didn’t. He gave parables… parables on human dignity and the love of God.
I am not advocating a Christianity where everything goes or something like this… but I get tired when I have to explain marian dogma that are not explicitly described in the Bible, to people who are held away from the Sacraments for this same reason… or when I have to explain to the Jews why we have made new rules and new times of worship instead of the ones that were there at the beginning… or worse, when I have to explain to myself why it is that I have to confess a death sin if I dont go to Mass one sunday, while Paul said: dont ever let anyone judge you on the basis of festivals or sabbaths…
I wanna understand… and obviously I need to keep it simple because I am not as smart as scott Hahn.
I am sorry… I could continue.
I thought that this place would be full of people who are pro-new-marian-dogma… I am happy and surprised to see that I am not alone with my thoughts.
Thanks for expressing yours so well, James
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MaryJohnZ
Guest
The teachings of Public Revelation is binding on all Catholics and should be on ALL people.
St. Joan of Arc went to her death as a martyr, sentenced by Church authorities, because she saw being faithful to a ‘private revealtion’ as being faithful to God,
I was reading a book on Dogma and it said that revelation and inspiration proceed the outward explicit statement of dogma.
I think that is what private Revealtions, (especially these that seem to have a universal call in them), evntually result in bringing out another aspect of Divine Truth,…like this new Dogma.
So what we call a 'Private Revelation" can be a way that God is preparing the ground to receive a Public Revelation in the form of a Dogma like this.
If we look at different aspects of the church there is always two sides…one that is obviously outward in nature (like Public Revealtion) and one that is more hidden ( like Tradition).
You can continue that theme in other areas
Priesthood…laity
Sacraments… sacramentals
Public Liturgy…private devotion
ALMOST LIKE MASCULINE AND FEMININE NATURES!
Interestingly I was taking an Old Testament clas and they even call Wisdom literature the 'hidden books" of the bible because they are more feminine in tone.
It is like there is always a lesser element which is not ‘required’
of anyone and yet in essence these lesser aspects prepare our souls for the other, more 'Public" aspects. I doubt if God sees either aspect as less important for they seem to go hand in hand
if actions are to be fruitful. Private devotions, for example, often prepare us spiritually to attend mass with greater love…
Perhaps we can see Private Revlation in the same way if we just stop being legalistic and concentrate on what God is saying to us through them.
Welcoming a Prophet and you receive the reward of a prophet.
MaryJohnZ
St. Joan of Arc went to her death as a martyr, sentenced by Church authorities, because she saw being faithful to a ‘private revealtion’ as being faithful to God,
I was reading a book on Dogma and it said that revelation and inspiration proceed the outward explicit statement of dogma.
I think that is what private Revealtions, (especially these that seem to have a universal call in them), evntually result in bringing out another aspect of Divine Truth,…like this new Dogma.
So what we call a 'Private Revelation" can be a way that God is preparing the ground to receive a Public Revelation in the form of a Dogma like this.
If we look at different aspects of the church there is always two sides…one that is obviously outward in nature (like Public Revealtion) and one that is more hidden ( like Tradition).
You can continue that theme in other areas
Priesthood…laity
Sacraments… sacramentals
Public Liturgy…private devotion
ALMOST LIKE MASCULINE AND FEMININE NATURES!
Interestingly I was taking an Old Testament clas and they even call Wisdom literature the 'hidden books" of the bible because they are more feminine in tone.
It is like there is always a lesser element which is not ‘required’
of anyone and yet in essence these lesser aspects prepare our souls for the other, more 'Public" aspects. I doubt if God sees either aspect as less important for they seem to go hand in hand
if actions are to be fruitful. Private devotions, for example, often prepare us spiritually to attend mass with greater love…
Perhaps we can see Private Revlation in the same way if we just stop being legalistic and concentrate on what God is saying to us through them.
Welcoming a Prophet and you receive the reward of a prophet.
MaryJohnZ
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
If there is no new Public Revelation why would there be new dogma?
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CradleCath
Guest
No need to “shout”. I do not agree with you about the “no negative effects”. At Fatima Our Lady said:
When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fire of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of your Mercy. I have come to exhort the faithful to change their life, to avoid grieving Our Lord by sin, ]to pray the Rosary.
In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph, the Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and a period of grace will be granted to the world.
Will we go to Hell if we don’t pray the rosary as Mary reccomended…probably not. Will we receive the graces that Mary promised to the world? Probably not. As far as I’m concerned that is definitely a"negative effect".
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Memaw
Guest
Private revelations are not even “binding” on those that receive them.
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MaryJohnZ
Guest
You don’t understand what Public Revelation consists of and how it works.
Nothing new exists…it is all contained within the revlations given to the apostles but it unfolds in forms of new explicit statements called Dogmas over time.Implicit revelations are contained in Publlic revelation and are brought out as conscious forms.
"To make explicit is not to put human comments side by side with the divine deposit, but to uncover its real content hitherto veiled…"
on new dogmas;
"They are new, not by their substance or content, but by the way they express and manifest this substance or content…"
from:
WHAT IS DOGMA
Twentieth Century Encyclopedia of Catholicism
by Cjarles Journet
Hawthorn Books, NY copyright 1964
I would say,dogmas help remove the scales from our eyes to see the fullness of Truth more clearly.
MaryJohnZ
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Memaw
Guest
Then why does the Church teach us about Divine Mercy, even giving it a Special Feast Day MASS, (can’t get any better than that) as Our Lord asked Sr. Faustina, and why does the Church promote many other approved private revelations such as The Sacred Heart, Immaculate Heart, Lourdes & Fatima, They all have Special Feast Day Masses too. Popes have been there several times, John Paul was called the Fatima Pope. In fact, why does the Church even bother to study them and declare some of them “Worthy Of Belief.” What part of “Worthy of belief” do you not understand. Come on, you got to see how petty your argument really is. Seems like your stuck on the same ole tune. Open up your narrow little heart and live !!! & LOVE!!!
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
Only ‘probably not’???
How can you say ‘probably not’???
Getting sent to hell is not dependent on which private devotional practices one makes use of.
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Memaw
Guest
I am stunned by the Catholics here that do not know their Catholic Faith well enough to explain the simplest beliefs. I am high school graduate, cradle Catholic & do not consider myself to be anywhere near the wisdom that Scott Haun, a convert, has. But I am not stupid either. I know its my responsibility to know my faith and to continue to learn all I can for as long as I can. I am not young either, so I have spent many years learning. It is the WISDOM of the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC & APOSTOLIC Church that I depend on, not my own. If I don’t understand something, I research and learn what the Church teaches. I had a good Holy Catholic priest Uncle, of happy memory, that helped me so much over the years. He often told me, “Don’t ever depend on your own “opinion” as you may very well be wrong. Always go by what the Church teaches and you can’t go wrong.” I am afraid that too many go by their own opinion when it comes to the Bible and Church teaching and that causes much confusion. Why are we sooo anxious to tell the Church what to do. It was the Catholic Church that Christ gave the power to teach, govern and sanctify. And we would be wise to listen to Her in all things.James! You rock brother! (hope you can say that in English/ I’m not American)
Halleluja, your post just made me happy…
I often feel alone with my quest for a simple, holy, apostolic faith that I can just have in peace.
We know that the first Christians prayed the Our Father three times a day… did not let anyone judge them on the basis of which holidays and sabbaths they preferred to keep, what they liked to eat and when… and so on and so forth…
But sometimes I think we forget this apostolic freedom of the first Christians… all things are made complicated and but into heavy systems… we have a Vatican where people sit and have politically correct audiences or lengthy discourses instead of dropping their robes and stepping out into the streets to minister to crowds and heal the sick.
The Gospel is really simple and its beautiful in its simplicity. Jesus could have told us to become new rabbis who made halacha upon halacha, new mishah… new books on how to go around the simple laws layed down in the Bible… But He didn’t. He gave parables… parables on human dignity and the love of God.
I am not advocating a Christianity where everything goes or something like this… but I get tired when I have to explain marian dogma that are not explicitly described in the Bible, to people who are held away from the Sacraments for this same reason… or when I have to explain to the Jews why we have made new rules and new times of worship instead of the ones that were there at the beginning… or worse, when I have to explain to myself why it is that I have to confess a death sin if I dont go to Mass one sunday, while Paul said: dont ever let anyone judge you on the basis of festivals or sabbaths…
I wanna understand… and obviously I need to keep it simple because I am not as smart as scott Hahn.
I am sorry… I could continue.
I thought that this place would be full of people who are pro-new-marian-dogma… I am happy and surprised to see that I am not alone with my thoughts.
Thanks for expressing yours so well, James
It doesn’t matter what language you speak or where your are from, thats no excuse for staying ignorant of Her teachings. The Church is for All. She is universal. If you are Catholic, learn your faith, You can do that thru Catholic Answers. If your not Catholic, then watch Journey Home on EWTN, (Catholic Cable Network) on Monday nights at 7 pm CST. You might be surprised by TRUTH.
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
Even the “Fatima Pope” did not require all Catholics to believe in that private revelation - same with Sr. Faustina’s visions - which was within his power to do. That he never crossed that line says alot more than creating a new feast day on a the calendar.
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East_and_West
Guest
From Sin. He gave here the grace to never fall into the trap of sin that we all fall into and, thus, saved her from what the rest have been saved from after alreay fallen in.
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Memaw
Guest
You are stuck in a rut my dear. What do you think creating a Feast day means…Get over yourself.
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Memaw
Guest
Run that by me one more time.
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JRKH
Guest
I am equally stunned that there are Catholics here with so little regard for our Lord’s command to Love one another, that they feel the need to blast away at other catholics who hold different opinions. Even though those opinions are just as valid within the church as their own.
“Blessed be the Peacemakers for they shall be called Sons of God”.
Let’s try it and see what happens.
Peace
James
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