Mary Co-Redemptrix Poll

[Paul_the_seaker]

I find a great many disconcerting finger pointings and name callings. I too like James think that we should discuss the issues without anger, or pride. Perhaps a more fruitful approach is simply to look at things with clarity and define what we mean by the words we use? For example, what do we mean by redemption? Why was it needed. How was it done? How does it affect me? What am I supposed to do with it?

Once we can agree on what these terms mean, we might be able to go on to co-redemption. However, I suspect that if each of us examined what we mean when we uses these terms, there will little agreement there as well.

Perhaps this would be too boring? I don’t know. I seek the truth.

Paul

 

[GraceDK]

" As Bishop Fulton J. Sheen once said, “The truth is the truth, even if no one believes it and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it.” He also said that people don’t hate the Catholic Church, but they hate what they THINK is the Catholic Church.
Bishop Sheen has studied more, been more places, seen more Churches, and read and wrote more books than you ever will, and I will take his word over yours any day.
PS, maybe you should read some of his books."

Maybe if you made a better advertisement I would. But if reading Bishop Fultons books makes me as arrogant as you then no thanks. For all I care… some little kid somewhere can have more wisdom than Sheen. Being a bishop sure don’t make you Jesus… and it does not mean that you are smarter or wiser than all other men and women… it only means you have a greater responsibility to serve and to be a good role model.
You say you would take his word over mine any day… well that phrase does not say alot about neither him nor me, but alot about you. But I am happy I am not your bishop because then I would feel it was my responsibility to give you a good thrashing.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

" As Bishop Fulton J. Sheen once said, “The truth is the truth, even if no one believes it and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it.” He also said that people don’t hate the Catholic Church, but they hate what they THINK is the Catholic Church.
Bishop Sheen has studied more, been more places, seen more Churches, and read and wrote more books than you ever will, and I will take his word over yours any day.
PS, maybe you should read some of his books."

Maybe if you made a better advertisement I would. But if reading Bishop Fultons books makes me as arrogant as you then no thanks. For all I care… some little kid somewhere can have more wisdom than Sheen. Being a bishop sure don’t make you Jesus… and it does not mean that you are smarter or wiser than all other men and women… it only means you have a greater responsibility to serve and to be a good role model.
You say you would take his word over mine any day… well that phrase does not say alot about neither him nor me, but alot about you. But I am happy I am not your bishop because then I would feel it was my responsibility to give you a good thrashing.

Grace, According to the class I just took on Theology of Ministry
in which we read portions of Vatican II documents the belief is that Bishops have the gift of infallibility in their teaching as long as they are faithful to the Pope who has the gift of infallibility in transmitting truth…now that means that if a Bishop is unfaithful to the Pope he would loose that gift (scary thought but true).
Bishop Sheen was very faithful to the Pope in everything from what I know of him so I would trust his word on this.I can dig to find the statement in Vatican II if I must…

But, as to all the concern about the name calling, sense of anger… I would hope we can speak our concerns and differences with charity. I think the fact that there is so much difference in people’s perceptions and understanding is because Catholic education programs have been terrible for the past 30 years.
Even if the classes I am taking at the Diocese for lay formation I am distressed because Catholic nuns come in an say they are for women priests and all kinds of things… very distressing.
It is like they have changed the Church into a democracy and everyone should be able to vote on things. Plus people don’t trust their leaders as much since the scandals…adding to the disarray.
So let’s not be hard on eachother because in the end we all have been victims of this in one way or another.

God Bless ,Mary

 

[Memaw]

I find a great many disconcerting finger pointings and name callings. I too like James think that we should discuss the issues without anger, or pride. Perhaps a more fruitful approach is simply to look at things with clarity and define what we mean by the words we use? For example, what do we mean by redemption? Why was it needed. How was it done? How does it affect me? What am I supposed to do with it?

Once we can agree on what these terms mean, we might be able to go on to co-redemption. However, I suspect that if each of us examined what we mean when we uses these terms, there will little agreement there as well.

Perhaps this would be too boring? I don’t know. I seek the truth.

Paul

If you go back and read my quotes, you will see that I tried to do just that, but some just don’t want to hear the truth, I tried to tell them that Co-Redemptrix does not mean Mary is equal to Our Lord. She did not climb on the Cross with Him, we all know that. Ignoring Mary may not be a mortal sin, but it sure is foolish and and a great loss to the person. I was 25 years old when my first husband was killed in an accident, We had just celebrated our 8th Wed. Ann. We had 4 little boys ages 1-7. I was devastated. I asked Fr. who is the patron St. of Widows, and he said, “Why, the Blessed Mother, of course.” You can’t even imagine how she helped my thru this horriable time. I have since lost 2 babies and also my second husband and she has been with me thru it all. Was Jesus there, you bet, but she was with me, hand in hand, and he loves us both. When he sees me, he sees me holding HIS Mothers hand. Her arms around me. Love is in the air and in the Heavens. I thank HIM daily for giving us HIS Mother. The Church can give her any title it wants too cuz there will never be to many ways to Love OUR LADY. Remember, I said LOVE, NOT Worship. There is a BIG difference, at least to faithful Catholics that understand their Faith. Any body want to talk about HOW Catholics WORSHIP OUR LORD. Go to MASS with an OPEN heart and you will see.

 

[Memaw]

" As Bishop Fulton J. Sheen once said, “The truth is the truth, even if no one believes it and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it.” He also said that people don’t hate the Catholic Church, but they hate what they THINK is the Catholic Church.
Bishop Sheen has studied more, been more places, seen more Churches, and read and wrote more books than you ever will, and I will take his word over yours any day.
PS, maybe you should read some of his books."

Maybe if you made a better advertisement I would. But if reading Bishop Fultons books makes me as arrogant as you then no thanks. For all I care… some little kid somewhere can have more wisdom than Sheen. Being a bishop sure don’t make you Jesus… and it does not mean that you are smarter or wiser than all other men and women… it only means you have a greater responsibility to serve and to be a good role model.
You say you would take his word over mine any day… well that phrase does not say alot about neither him nor me, but alot about you. But I am happy I am not your bishop because then I would feel it was my responsibility to give you a good thrashing.

If speaking the truth is arrogant then I guess I am guilty, But thats better than being sooo stubborn you are blinded by your own ignorance. Guess what, I know my Bishop would agree with me, not you. He has a great love for Our Lady. As do all the priests I know. The key sentence in your statement above is, “For all I care” That says a WHOLE lot.

 

[GraceDK]

Mary.
About bishops being infallible… well, I did not know there was such a teaching. I know that the Holy Spirit and Jesus is infallible and they are the whole and sole power that transforms bread into Body and wine into Blood.
There is a difference in gifts of the Holy Spirit that come with Ordination and those that are given freely by the Spirit to whomever He choses, these being love, humility, wisdom, counsil and also prophetic gift, gift of healing etc…
I am of the conviction that Bishop Sabbah in Israel eg. lacks certain of these gifts and he makes much damage in my eyes… If I were to regard him as infallible only because the pope did not protest (as of yet. Benedict is not omniscient) I would find such a demand ridiculous.
You are right therein that we have to speak with each other in charity… but when it comes to Memaw at least I feel that the situation is this: I found him to be very patronizing. Now I am not claiming to be holy, wise or to be in direct agreement with some high clergyman (neither will he stand in my place when I find myself in front of the Throne one day) but I think that when Memaw is somehow claiming these things about himself then he is shoting himself in the foot when he cannot even address a sister in a charitable manner. It seems pride is an issue… like when he implies that I don’t venerate Mary without knowing me at all. I will not justify myself, for even though I hold that Christ is the Resurrection and the Life alone, Mary is also precious to me. But for me there is a huge difference in loving someone and calling her co-redemptrix. Now if I hold that it would be against the nature of Mary’s humility to even want to be associated with such a word… then I will be honest and say that. Memaw might imply I am a bad Catholic or bad Christian because of all these things but that is exactly my point about this whole dogma-business…
As I have said before I long for more simplicity in the Church.

Memav: I think we have finished this conversation. You dont know me and I dont know you. Lets leave it at that. Peace.

But Whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ - the righetousness that comes from God and is by faith. (Phil 3:7)

 

[TMC]

Let me ask something that I think I asked before, but maybe it was another thread.

What is the effect of getting this doctrine wrong or right? I am all for getting it right. But what if one is wrong? If Mary is the Co-Redemptrix, and I do not believe it, that does that have some bad effect for me? What about the Church, would refusing this have a bad effect?

Again, I am all for getting things right, but it seems to me that this is a purely theological question that has no effect on how I live my life, and no effect on salvation. Am I wrong? If I am correct that this doctrine does not change the way we live, why is it so important?

 

[GraceDK]

TMC… you are on the way to wisdom because you know how to ask the right questions.

 

[Memaw]

Mary.
About bishops being infallible… well, I did not know there was such a teaching. I know that the Holy Spirit and Jesus is infallible and they are the whole and sole power that transforms bread into Body and wine into Blood.
There is a difference in gifts of the Holy Spirit that come with Ordination and those that are given freely by the Spirit to whomever He choses, these being love, humility, wisdom, counsil and also prophetic gift, gift of healing etc…
I am of the conviction that Bishop Sabbah in Israel eg. lacks certain of these gifts and he makes much damage in my eyes… If I were to regard him as infallible only because the pope did not protest (as of yet. Benedict is not omniscient) I would find such a demand ridiculous.
You are right therein that we have to speak with each other in charity… but when it comes to Memaw at least I feel that the situation is this: I found him to be very patronizing. Now I am not claiming to be holy, wise or to be in direct agreement with some high clergyman (neither will he stand in my place when I find myself in front of the Throne one day) but I think that when Memaw is somehow claiming these things about himself then he is shoting himself in the foot when he cannot even address a sister in a charitable manner. It seems pride is an issue… like when he implies that I don’t venerate Mary without knowing me at all. I will not justify myself, for even though I hold that Christ is the Resurrection and the Life alone, Mary is also precious to me. But for me there is a huge difference in loving someone and calling her co-redemptrix. Now if I hold that it would be against the nature of Mary’s humility to even want to be associated with such a word… then I will be honest and say that. Memaw might imply I am a bad Catholic or bad Christian because of all these things but that is exactly my point about this whole dogma-business…
As I have said before I long for more simplicity in the Church.

Memav: I think we have finished this conversation. You dont know me and I dont know you. Lets leave it at that. Peace.

But Whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ - the righetousness that comes from God and is by faith. (Phil 3:7)

Since you think I am patronizing, I might as well get the last word too, since your done, but I do have a sense of humor and I am not a man, Memaw means Grandma, especially to my youngest grandaughter. I get a little tired of non-catholics trying to tell me what and how I believe and what my Church teaches. Yes the Bishops are infallible when in union with the POPE. (That doesn’t mean impeccable.) only when teaching on Faith and Morals. Faith is what we believe and Morals is how we live that faith. Look it up and study what the Church really teaches. Some of the learning process does depend on you, But you have to learn what the Church really teaches, not what someone says or thinks the Church teaches.
Now for me being condescending, I don’t mean to come across that way but I will always speak the TRUTH in defending the Faith. How you take it or what you do with it is up to you,. Catholics do believe everyone has a free will. And I use my free will to speak the truth, sorry if that offends you. Truth is LOVE

 

[Adhemar]

Let me ask something that I think I asked before, but maybe it was another thread.

What is the effect of getting this doctrine wrong or right? I am all for getting it right. But what if one is wrong? If Mary is the Co-Redemptrix, and I do not believe it, that does that have some bad effect for me? What about the Church, would refusing this have a bad effect?

Again, I am all for getting things right, but it seems to me that this is a purely theological question that has no effect on how I live my life, and no effect on salvation. Am I wrong? If I am correct that this doctrine does not change the way we live, why is it so important?

TMC,

The Coredemption underscores the importance of our share in the one mediation of Christ, and the baptismal priesthood of all the faithful, that our principle duty and grace is to offer sacrifice. The Coredemption is consistent with everything we believe in terms of our share in Christ’s mediation. We can believe it for the same reason that we believe in the efficacy of the Sacraments, the importance of the priesthood, the need for a visible head of the Church on earth, the necessity of works, the importance of tradition. These are all forms of sharing in the one mediation of Christ.

It underscores the importance of sacrificial contemplative love, that our sacrifices make a difference in Christ.

Both the Catholic belief in our share in the one mediation of Christ and the dignity and value of human suffering are devalued or outright denied. Mary has always been the “destroyer of heresies” and the model and Mother of the Church. When we see Her, we learn what the Church is supposed to be.

Furthermore, the Church does teach that we need to have a devotion to Mary, to acknowledge what God has done for Her and through Her. She is His masterpiece. He became Her Child. He has honored Her and She deserves to be honored for what He has done in Her. If the Coredemption is true, then being honored as Coredemptrix is Her due. The fathers say, He who honors the Mother also honors the Son.

 

[Memaw]

Let me ask something that I think I asked before, but maybe it was another thread.

What is the effect of getting this doctrine wrong or right? I am all for getting it right. But what if one is wrong? If Mary is the Co-Redemptrix, and I do not believe it, that does that have some bad effect for me? What about the Church, would refusing this have a bad effect?

Again, I am all for getting things right, but it seems to me that this is a purely theological question that has no effect on how I live my life, and no effect on salvation. Am I wrong? If I am correct that this doctrine does not change the way we live, why is it so that it is to be believed.

Doctrine is any truth taught by the Catholic Church as necessary for acceptance by the faithful. What makes it a Doctrine is that the Church authority, (the Magisterium) teaches that it is necessary to be believed.
There should never be any argument within us Catholics as to what our Church teaches especially if we believe Our Lord when he said HIS Church would NEVER error and the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against it… Humility is the key to being faithful Catholic. And we all need to work on that every day.

 

[Memaw]

Let me ask something that I think I asked before, but maybe it was another thread.

What is the effect of getting this doctrine wrong or right? I am all for getting it right. But what if one is wrong? If Mary is the Co-Redemptrix, and I do not believe it, that does that have some bad effect for me? What about the Church, would refusing this have a bad effect?

Again, I am all for getting things right, but it seems to me that this is a purely theological question that has no effect on how I live my life, and no effect on salvation. Am I wrong? If I am correct that this doctrine does not change the way we live, why is it so that it is to be believed.

This comes form the Modern Catholic Dictionary by Fr. John Hardon. S.J. not from me.

Doctrine is any truth taught by the Catholic Church as necessary for acceptance by the faithful. What makes it a Doctrine is that the Church authority, (the Magisterium) teaches that it is necessary to be believed.

There should never be any argument within us Catholics as to what our Church teaches especially if we believe Our Lord when he said HIS Church would NEVER error and the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against it… Humility is the key to being faithful Catholic. And we all need to work on that every day. Memaw

 

[CradleCath]

Common sense will tell you that if it is approved, then its wise to pay attention to the message. I really don’t understand what all this fuss is about but I think EM is enjoying keeping things stirred up.

That’s quite evident & has been remarked upon in several threads that she’s posted on.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Mary.
About bishops being infallible… well, I did not know there was such a teaching. I know that the Holy Spirit and Jesus is infallible and they are the whole and sole power that transforms bread into Body and wine into Blood.

Yes, and I did say they were infallible in teaching truth only if they are faithful to Pope who is infallible in proclaiming the teachings by virture of his office. The Bishop however can lose their gift by being unfaithful, which just make sense… And there are some leadership problems in our church unfortunately. So pray for Priests and Bishops and the Pope!

Listen Grace, don’t be downhearted just because this title is causing you trouble right now. I am sure you love Mary, and because you do believe she hears your prayers and Jesus does too, just ask them. Be quiet and listen to what they answer back
to you…

After all if we are people of faith we do believe they would answer the question. Listening in prayer is part of seeking. It is not wrong in anyway to question and doubt. If the church does proclaim the dogma, you can rest assured that God wanted it however and then ask God to help you understand. We all need to do that…
I have done it plenty of times and still do it.

There is plenty of evidence that this has been a part of tradition for a long while, so if it is to become explicit as a Dogma then God Willed that to happen.

Peace! Mary and Jesus love you and you aren’t the only Catholic who will struggle with the title. I know a lot of Priests who will struggle with it too,

God Bless, mary

 

[MaryJohnZ]

TMC;3326186:

Let me ask something that I think I asked before, but maybe it was another thread.

What is the effect of getting this doctrine wrong or right? I am all for getting it right. But what if one is wrong? If Mary is the Co-Redemptrix, and I do not believe it, that does that have some bad effect for me? What about the Church, would refusing this have a bad effect?

If it is Truth God will bring it about in the church at some time but people can delay it by stubbornly refusing it, by not listening to the Holy Spirit, by being sinful.The net effect of not doing God’s Will would be loss of grace in the present moment of time. Since I don’t know God’s Will or plan entirely I would not be able to say what that totally means…none of us can.

Again, I am all for getting things right, but it seems to me that this is a purely theological question that has no effect on how I live my life, and no effect on salvation. Am I wrong? If I am correct that this doctrine does not change the way we live, why is it so that it is to be believed.

Instead of thinking of Dogmas as leading us outward beyond Public Revealation think of them as leading us inward toward the total truth about God which is in Public Revealtion. So if this is proclaimed it helps us understand scripture and public rvelation more.

Doctrine is any truth taught by the Catholic Church as necessary for acceptance by the faithful. What makes it a Doctrine is that the Church authority, (the Magisterium) teaches that it is necessary to be believed. There should never be any argument within us Catholics as to what our Church teaches especially if we believe Our Lord when he said HIS Church would NEVER error and the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against it… Humility is the key to being faithful Catholic. And we all need to work on that every day.

Amen!!!

God Bless, Mary

 

[CradleCath]

Listen Grace, don’t be downhearted just because this title is causing you trouble right now. I am sure you love Mary, and because you do believe she hears your prayers and Jesus does too, just ask them. Be quiet and listen to what they answer back
to you…

Peace! Mary and Jesus love you and you aren’t the only Catholic who will struggle with the title. I know a lot of Priests who will struggle with it too,

God Bless, mary

Just want to add my thoughts to yours, Mary. Grace, though I’ve been one (& am one) who believes in Marion apparitions & has a great devotion to her…I voted NO in this poll. I don’t think that the title Co-Redemptrix is exactly right & descriptive of who Mary is. IMO., only Christ can be called Redeemer. So, IF the Church goes with this, I’ll be needing some answers, too.
I do believe I’ll get those answers, …should this become part of the deposit of faith. Until then, I’m on record as voting against this new title.

 

[ericktiu]

Halo,
I agree with you MEMAW(or LOLA as Filipinos call older women whether it’s blood relationship or not, as a sign of respect) all the way through this post.

Others defend, their zeal for their love of Christ alone. Which is a very simple faith.

While your zeal to defend the FAITH, is also because of the love for Christ, the love for Mother Mary and saints, and the love for Christ’s Church. Catholic faith is not just a simple faith, it is complex.

I voted “yes” because I understand and am not confused with title co-redemptrix. The Lord Jesus is my redeemer and Mother Mary helped in my redemption. Like Simon the Cyrenian help the Lord carry the cross to Golgotha, what more is Mother Mary.We are also called to redeem others. Well, we are one BIG family of redeemers but their is only one source of redemption, YEHOSHUA.

Jesus bless you and Mama mary loves you.

 

[MaryJohnZ]

Halo,
I agree with you MEMAW(or LOLA as Filipinos call older women whether it’s blood relationship or not, as a sign of respect) all the way through this post.

Others defend, their zeal for their love of Christ alone. Which is a very simple faith.While your zeal to defend the FAITH, is also because of the love for Christ, the love for Mother Mary and saints, and the love for Christ’s Church. Catholic faith is not just a simple faith, it is complex.

I voted “yes” because I understand and am not confused with title co-redemptrix. The Lord Jesus is my redeemer and Mother Mary helped in my redemption. Like Simon the Cyrenian help the Lord carry the cross to Golgotha, what more is Mother Mary.We are also called to redeem others. Well, we are one BIG family of redeemers but their is only one source of redemption, YEHOSHUA.

Jesus bless you and Mama mary loves you.

You know the priest’s homily today in church commented on the gospel which ended with Jesus alone, Moses and Elija were gone and his comment was we only need jesus. Now he didn’t say anything about the new Dogma, but I think he was referring to it…or read that into it… but I could have predicted he would have trouble with it. Jesus doesn’t really need anyone that is true but God allows things…he allows Himelf to need people. Afterall, as Grace said only Priests can consecrate the Bread and wine…
and we wouldn’t have had Mass this morning if the Priest had not been there. Didn’t Jesus ‘need’ that Priest to do that? Doesn’t he ‘need’ me to be a good mother to my children? Doesn’t jesus ‘need’ each of us to be His feet and hands in the world…and His voice at times? Now that might not be a ‘need’ in the sense that God can do anything by just wiling it, but it is a ‘need’ in the sense that God allows his work to be carried on by us. Jesus could have come into the world without a mother but he decided to do it that way, and He chose Mary and set her apart as 'Blessed". I think this Dogma shows that relationship, that kind of ‘dependence’, a ‘dependence’ that is Willed by God, not needed by Him.

That is a huge mystery…

Probably if we all could be completely independent and do everything ourselves we would choose that. God could have done it that way but he chose the other way, the way of becoming small,of becoming weak and dependent: a child in a Mother’s arms.

And now he has made Himself even more dependent in the Eucharist. He is even dependent on us to carry Him in the Host to
our sick and to eachother. He is dependent on us to provide a Tabernacle and he even waits quietly there for us to visit.

What an example of dependence! Our problem is in recognizing
all the ways we can serve and be Christ in this world.

Maybe this Dogma would help wake us up more to our role to carry Him to others just as mary did.

MaryJohnZ

 

[ericktiu]

Halo MaryJohn,

You know the priest’s homily today in church commented on the gospel which ended with Jesus alone, Moses and Elija were gone and his comment was we only need jesus. Now he didn’t say anything about the new Dogma, but I think he was referring to it…or read that into it… but I could have predicted he would have trouble with it.

The priest is right on Jesus alone, it’s because he is just giving the emphasis on the gospel Mt.17:1-9. Catholics know and understand “on Jesus alone” but not in a literally sense. Because as you have said which is also a part of the truth, the Lord would not need anyone to preach to gospel “…he allows Himelf to need people. Afterall, as Grace said only Priests can consecrate the Bread and wine…
and we wouldn’t have had Mass this morning if the Priest had not been there. Didn’t Jesus ‘need’ that Priest to do that? Doesn’t he ‘need’ me to be a good mother to my children? Doesn’t jesus ‘need’ each of us to be His feet and hands in the world…and His voice at times? Now that might not be a ‘need’ in the sense that God can do anything by just wiling it, but it is a ‘need’ in the sense that God allows his work to be carried on by us. Jesus could have come into the world without a mother but he decided to do it that way, and He chose Mary and set her apart as 'Blessed”. I think this Dogma shows that relationship, that kind of ‘dependence’, a ‘dependence’ that is Willed by God, not needed by Him.".
If you will continue reading the gospel in the Matthew 17:10-20 10 Then the disciples asked him, “Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 11 He said in reply, “Elijah will indeed come and restore all things; 12 but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him but did to him whatever they pleased. So also will the Son of Man suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist. 14 When they came to the crowd a man approached, knelt down before him, 15 and said, “Lord, have pity on my son, for he is a lunatic and suffers severely; often he falls into fire, and often into water. 16** I brought him to your disciples, but they could not cure him**.” 17 Jesus said in reply, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long will I be with you? How long will I endure you? Bring him here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked him and the demon came out of him, and from that hour the boy was cured. 19 Then the disciples approached Jesus in private and said, “Why could we not drive it out?" 20 He said to them, "Because of your little faith. Amen, I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
We can see & understand that Christ shared to the disciples to drive the demons out even if they would a faith with size of a mustard seed. And in here Jesus said “how long will I be with you?” meaning He was teaching them and preparing them to the commission He gave to them to preach and baptise. So it is like that in the Kingdom of God, we depend on Christ and on one another. BIG FAMILY as I have said.

That is a huge mystery…

Yup, we understand it. We are blessed coz we understand it and we are not confused.

The Lords will be done through His Church that this dogma be clarified for the faithful to believe and mostly accept whether they like it or not, because the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

Jesus bless you and Mama Mary loves you.

 

[Memaw]

Just want to add my thoughts to yours, Mary. Grace, though I’ve been one (& am one) who believes in Marion apparitions & has a great devotion to her…I voted NO in this poll. I don’t think that the title Co-Redemptrix is exactly right & descriptive of who Mary is. IMO., only Christ can be called Redeemer. So, IF the Church goes with this, I’ll be needing some answers, too.
I do believe I’ll get those answers, …should this become part of the deposit of faith. Until then, I’m on record as voting against this new title.

I truly wish you all could understand that Co-Redemptrix does NOT mean Mary is a redeemer. Please don’t stay stuck on that. Only Jesus Christ is our Redeemer. But Mary did co-operate with God in bringing about our redemption by saying YES to God’s will. The Church says Mary is the daughter of God the Father, she is the spouse of the Holy Spirit, and the Mother of God the Son. There IS NO greater Honor than that. There never has been nor ever will be any other human being that has held such a high honor. We can LOVE her as much as we want, Jesus loved her MORE, we can trust her with all our heart, God trusted her with HIS SON. She will never do anything but bring us closer to Her SON. I know, she has done that for me in so many ways. Every day is a new day to LOVE God for all HE has done for us.