Mary Co-Redemptrix ... Pope says No and I am confused

[C.Longinus]

If implying that the Holy Father’s grasp on theology is unsound and trying to please Protestants isn’t just that, I’m not sure what is.

 

[Cathoholic]

(name removed by moderator)

Mary can’t redeem us only Jesus can redeem us by His death, right?

By nature correct.

But by GRACE, can anyone else be brought INTO that Redemption?

THAT’S the question.

Recall Jesus in John 6 talking about giving His flesh for the life of the world.

God is using Mary (with Her cooperation) to be associated with PART of the instrumental cause of our Redemption in Her agreeing to being Jesus’ Mother. (Jesus takes His sacred body from Mother Mary’s Sacred body.)

That’s WHY St. Ephrem can say . . .

ST. EPHREM . . . Mary and Eve, two people without guilt, two simple people, were
identical. Later, however, one became the cause of our death,
the other the cause of our life. (4)
— St. Ephrem. St. Ephrem died in 373 A.D.

Considering every Sunday at Mass, we talk about in the Creed how Jesus received that flesh from the Blessed Virgin Mary, would you say the Blessed Mother has at least SOME preeminent participation here?

What do you think the Prophet Simeon meant
when he told the Blessed Virgin Mary . . . . .

"a sword will pierce your own soul too"?

 

[Cathoholic]

DoubtingKT . . . .

If at any point in time, anyone misinterpret and glorifies Mother Mary more than Jesus Christ, that will be a great injustice to her.

Absolutely!

Do you have any examples of anyone doing this here? (I want to go and charitably rebuke them.)

Also . . .

If at any point in time, anyone misinterpret and minimizes Mother Mary that contravenes what Jesus Christ taught us, that will be a great injustice to her.

That’s what the whole Five First-Saturday devotion is all about. Making reparation for those that do such harms. At least about certain teachings of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Here they are.

• Blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception.
• Blasphemies against her Perpetual Virginity.
• Blasphemies against her Divine Maternity and at the same time the refusal to recognize her as the Mother of all mankind.
• Blasphemies of those who seek openly to foster in the hearts of children indifference or contempt and even hatred for this Immaculate Mother.
• The offenses of those who directly outrage Her in her holy images.

.

The Blessed Virgin Mary was given for the Mother of all mankind at the foot of the Cross.

What is the significance of this?

Is it a mere title?

Or is there real meaning to it that has to do with more than mere sentimentality?

Is it NECESSARY? (Can we REJECT Mary as our Mother and still have God as our Father? Could THIS be by GRACE, PART of our Redemption? [And since Mary is a type or “typus” of the Church we could ask the same question there too.])

 

[Cathoholic]

Can we REJECT the Church as our Mother and still have God as our Father?

Fortunately for us, St. Cyprian answers the question.

No one can have God for his father, who has not the Church for his mother.–St Cyprian Bishop and Martyr D. 258 A.D.

Can we REJECT the Church as our Mother and still have God as our Father?

The answer, according to St. Cyprian of Carthage is “no”.
We cannot reject the Church as our Mother in one sense and have God as our Father.

And we are taught that the Blessed Virgin Mary is a type or “typus” of the Church.

CCC 967 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)510 of the Church.

So by logical extension, I suppose we COULD ask . . . .

Can we REJECT Mary as our Mother and still have God as our Father?

Cardinal John Henry Newman in his Difficulties of Anglicans, vol. ii, page 36, calls attention to the fact that the Apostolic Fathers do not speak of the Blessed Virgin merely as a physical instrument of Our Lord’s taking flesh, but as an intelligent, responsible cause of it; her faith and obedience being accessories to the Incarnation. As Eve failed in these virtues and thereby brought on the fall of the race in Adam, so Mary by means of the same had a part in its restoration. The Cardinal has shown that Justin Martyr, Tertullian, and Irenaeus represented distinct parts of the Church, geographically. Each taught that Mary is the second Eve. We must admit, therefore, that the doctrine that she was given a place in the plan of salvation comparable to that which Eve held in the fall of the human race was widespread throughout the earliest Church.
Quote from Unspotted Mirror of God By Monsignor Matthew Smith. Register College of Journalism, Denver Colorado, 1943. P. 131.

.

Also, in the (Latin Rite) Mass of “Mary at the Foot of the Cross”, we find this prayer:

“In your divine wisdom, you planned the redemption of the human race,
and decreed that the new Eve should stand by the cross of the new Adam:
as she became his mother by the power of the Holy Spirit, so, by a new gift of your love,
she was to be a partner in his passion,
and she who had given him birth without the pains of childbirth was to endure the greatest of pains in bringing forth to new life the family of your Church.”

 

[DoubtingKT]

Do you have any examples of anyone doing this here? (I want to go and charitably rebuke them.)

Hi Cathoholic, thank you so much for such an in-depth sharing! Truly very enlightening for me personally, written in a clear manner!

Hmm… I only joined this discussion at a later part, based on the limited replies that I read, I doubt I see anyone, knowingly or unknowingly, doing so!

But, I can imagine how some actions/words shared about Mother Mary by some individuals can be easily misinterpreted by others (especially those who do not know/are new to Catholicism)? Even though the intentions and theological understanding of Mother Mary by these individuals may be absolutely right!

I don’t think this should translate into limiting ourselves in praying or speaking truth about Mother Mary, because of the fear that it can be misinterpreted! Quite the opposite, all the more, it should be a platform and an opportunity to claim the truth!

I am inspired by your patience and willingness to share and correct any misconceptions about Mother Mary in your best capacity to people around you! (similarly so, for many people in this discussion!)

Will definitely reflect upon what you and the rest had shared, and formulate my own explanations! So that, the next time when I am sharing about Mother Mary or praying to Mother Mary, and I sense that someone may have misinterpreted me, I will have the courage and wisdom to share with the person in a loving way! Acting and sharing prudently so that I will lead more people to Christ (rather than derailing them), just like how you all are doing so!

 

[patricius79]

Can we REJECT Mary as our Mother and still have God as our Father?

It is so good for any man to really understand that Mary is his mother.

St. John Paul II wrote this in “Redemptoris Mater”"

One can say that if Mary’s motherhood of the human race had already been outlined, now it is clearly stated and established. It emerges from the definitive accomplishment of the Redeemer’s Paschal Mystery. The Mother of Christ, who stands at the very center of this mystery-a mystery which embraces each individual and all humanity-is given as mother to every single individual and all mankind.

 

[EndTimes]

How do you know Catholics love Mary more than other Christians? If so, how do Protestants interpose their lack of love into this equation?

Since your prior posts presuppose Sola Scriptura, you need to justify that first before drawing on Scripture.

yes… . it’s a broad-brushing of what ALL CATHOLICS do…

and … Sola Scriptura has been easily debunked - not that Scriptures are not v.important -

As In - Portions of JESUS in Holy Written Form.

 

[Katie777]

To Jesus through Mary…
Wedding at Cana

If where Jesus lived and walked is considered the Holy Land…what do you think about the Blessed Mother who gave birth to our Lord… She intercedes for us and is Co Redemtrix.
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[EndTimes]

If where Jesus lived and walked is considered the Holy Land…what do you think about the Blessed Mother who gave birth to our Lord… She intercedes for us and is Co Redemtrix.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Most important are for any who venerate Mary - is to truly do what she always says:

Keep your primary focus upon Mary’s Son - Jesus her Lord and Redeemer as well.