Mary DID have other children

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oldfogey:
Actually, then, I guess I don’t really know what the “point” was. It was common and there were laws governing it, but it would not have been mentioned?
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Since the Bible specifically says, “not all is written” here, I would imagine her vow of virginity, which in and of itself is not a revelation of God but a human discipline wouldn’t have been mentioned.
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oldfogey:
Actually, I was just enjoying a thread not based on knowitallism and blowhardism, like many of the threads on these forums. Rather than going back to do research, I think I’ll spend more time in prayer. At least there won’t be sarcasm involved.
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I must apologize, I often use sarcasm in my speech, and it was not intended towards you. Please accept my sincere apology.
 
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rheins2000:
Where do you find evidence that St. Joseph had other children?
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The protoevangelium of James, it’s one of those “extra-biblical” books which are not considered inspired Scripture. You can find it at :newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm
Keep in mind it is not Scripture. It is also not Catholic Church teaching.
 
I remember back in my second year of college, a Pentecostal girl told me that Mary was not a perpetual virgin, by quoting Matthew 1:25. At that time I didn’t know how to answer that. Now I do, and I really wish that back then I knew about the refutation that St. Jermome wrote to Helvidius. That would have shown her that even in the early church, the Christians believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary, and were well aware of the scripture passages that Protestants still cite today. It is almost like they have re-invented the wheel. Anyway, I just have Protestants read St. Jerome’s refutation, it usually gets them to think twice about church teachings.
 
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Tom:
The protoevangelium of James, it’s one of those “extra-biblical” books which are not considered inspired Scripture. You can find it at :newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm
Keep in mind it is not Scripture. It is also not Catholic Church teaching.
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However, the Eastern Catholic churches do hold the belief the St. Joseph was a widower and St. James is Jesus’ step brother.
 
Psalm45:9:
However, the Eastern Catholic churches do hold the belief the St. Joseph was a widower and St. James is Jesus’ step brother.
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I have absolutely no problem with that, it makes good sense. I also have no problem with the possibility that the “brothers and sisters” are in fat nieces and nephews. Anyone with a KJV (as most good protestants do) can refer to Gn 14, 14 where it refers to Lot as Abram’s “brother” we know “brothers” in Scripture often means “kinsmen” (to include women).
 
If Mary had other children, then it would not make sense for Jesus to tell John, “Behold your mother” and "behold your Son. If Jesus would have other brothers then that duty to take care of mother would have fallen to the next oldest. But Jesus was saying more, Jesus was giving his own mother to all of us and we are all her children, So Mary has millions of children. Some say however that if Joseph had other children from a previous marriage they would have made the journey with them to Bethlehem. But that wouldnt be the case if they had reached adulthood and registering their own family. Joseph according to tradition was quite a bit older than Mary, so it all makes sense.
 
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ICXCNIKA:
One area of disagreement between Catholics and Protestants is on the question of whether Mary had other children besides Jesus. Luke 2:7 calls Jesus Mary’s firstborn. This does not imply that she has children after Jesus because the term firstborn is a legal declaration that implies all the rights and priveleges of a firstborn son, wether an only child or not. However, Protestants point to such scriptures as Mark 6:3. “Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” Protestant Christians point out that Mary, based on scriptures such as this, did indeed have other children. Although I will show that Mary does have other children, and the Bible clearly teaches it, scriptures such as these do not prove the point.

First of all, the Greek word “adelphos” for brother is used in the New Testament to refere to any kinsman, not just brother. A second argument against using scriptures mentioning Jesus’ brothers is found in John 19:26-27.
“When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, ‘Woman, behold, your son.’ Then he said to the disciple, ‘Behold, your mother.’ And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.” If Mary had other sons then they certainly would be the one’s responsible for taking care of their mother. What an insult for Jesus to offer their mother to someone who isn’t even a blood relative.

Based on these arguments, the Catholics have a better claim to Mary’s perpetual virginity. However, I would like to share some scriptures that clearly prove that Mary has other children.

As pointed out above, Luke 2:7 says that Mary “…gave birth to her firstborn son.” If Jesus is the firstborn, who then are Mary’s children who follow the firstborn? In Romans 8:28-29 Paul tells us that “we know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.”

The Bible declares that Jesus is the firstborn and that we, his followers, are his many brothers. Jesus is the firstborn son of Mary and we then are Her many children.

In Colossians 1:15 Paul goes on to tell us that Jesus “is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.” When Catholics call Mary “Mother” and when they refer to Her as the Mother of all people, they are simply echoing what the scriptures teach us. Jesus is our brother, Mary is His Mother. He is our firstborn brother and we share the same Mother as he. In fact, the book of Revelation declares that Christians are the offspring of Mary our Mother. (Revelation 12:17).

Did Mary have other children? Indeed she did and we are those children.
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Just to add to the thinking in your piece, here, “The firstborn male who opens the womb” is the one who had to be redeemed for 5 silver shekels. When the “firstborn male who opens the womb” verse was quoted in Luke, in Chapter 2, immediately thereafter Mary and Joseph make the purification sacrifice – they don’t actually pay the redemption fee. Citing the “firstborn male” verse was probably a tricky way of foreshadowing that Jesus was going to be killed.
 
Psalm45:9:
However, the Eastern Catholic churches do hold the belief the St. Joseph was a widower and St. James is Jesus’ step brother.
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and by holding to this part of the story in the Protoevangelium of James they are ignoring the Scriptural texts that clearly refute that Joseph was a widower with children when he married Mary.

It is a spurious work and even if it acknowledges Mary’s virginity, the author has not properly understood the relationship of the four men to Jesus and Mary. The evidence is provided by the Scripture: James and Jude Thaddeus, who are in the lists of the Apostles are the sons of Alphaeus, a brother of Joseph. They are not the sons of Joseph. The other two, Simon and Joseph (Joses or Joset depending upon translation) are brothers of the other two and they are named as the sons of the other Mary. Hence it is Scripture that refutes:
  1. that Mary had other physical children
  2. that Joseph was an elderly widower with children.
Maggie
 
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