Mary did what she was told

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FightingFat

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Have you ever come across this idea from Fundamentalists? Mary was told by God she would carry Jesus and her acquiescence was irrelevant? Mary was not ASKED to bear the Messiah, she was TOLD she would. She simply acknowledged it would be done according to His will, not hers.

Any help? What Scripture should I be looking at here?
 
FightingFat said:
Have you ever come across this idea from Fundamentalists? Mary was told by God she would carry Jesus and her acquiescence was irrelevant? Mary was not ASKED to bear the Messiah, she was TOLD she would. She simply acknowledged it would be done according to His will, not hers.

Any help? What Scripture should I be looking at here?
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So did Jesus.
 
Just ask them if Eve chose to disobey God. She did, she had free-will. Mary also has free-will. But she chose to obey God. That is why she is the New Eve.
 
FightingFat said:
Have you ever come across this idea from Fundamentalists? Mary was told by God she would carry Jesus and her acquiescence was irrelevant? Mary was not ASKED to bear the Messiah, she was TOLD she would. She simply acknowledged it would be done according to His will, not hers.

Any help? What Scripture should I be looking at here?
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It is inconsistant to profess to believe in free will and then make the statement that Mary had no choice in the matter. We either have free will or we don’t. Ask them to explain this inconsistency. Either they have to admit that Mary had free will in the matter, or they have to admit they don’t believe that all humans have free will. In which case their acquiescence to accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior is irrelevant, as it would not be of their choice, but forced upon them by God. Which would make their altar calls nothing but useless rituals.
 
i guess none of us then have free will because we were told by our parents to do many things. of course unless you kept disobeying your parents then you have free will

🤷
 
Ginger2 said:
Jonah
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Jonah disobeyed, but he didn’t have any choice in the end did he? God sort of forced him to do what he wanted didn’t he?

Re: Our Lady, can we show from Scripture that she was asked and not told?
 
CB_Catholic said:
It is inconsistant to profess to believe in free will and then make the statement that Mary had no choice in the matter. We either have free will or we don’t. Ask them to explain this inconsistency. Either they have to admit that Mary had free will in the matter, or they have to admit they don’t believe that all humans have free will. In which case their acquiescence to accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior is irrelevant, as it would not be of their choice, but forced upon them by God. Which would make their altar calls nothing but useless rituals.
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It also debunks OSAS. I am free to renounce my belief in God and become an atheist. If I do so, am I still “saved”? If the answer is yes, then there is no such thing as free will.
 
Calvinistic drivel ( predeterminism) that is being used to try & discredit the notion that Mary was somehow more special or better than any other woman. If God forced all of this Upon her, then Catholic belief & practices Honoring Mary can be called into question be them in an attempt to undermine our beliefs so they can SAVE Us from the Whore of Babylon.

Basically, bad theology, Not supported by Scripture, Tradition, the ECF etc …

Regards
 
FightingFat said:
Have you ever come across this idea from Fundamentalists? Mary was told by God she would carry Jesus and her acquiescence was irrelevant? Mary was not ASKED to bear the Messiah, she was TOLD she would. She simply acknowledged it would be done according to His will, not hers.

Any help? What Scripture should I be looking at here?
Click to expand...
Duoay Rheims

Luke - Chapter One

26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

31 **Behold thou shalt **conceive in thy womb, **and shalt bring **forth a son; and **thou shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. 33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? 35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall **overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy **which shall **be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren: 37 Because no word shall be impossible with God. 38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Mary was told. She acknowledge it would be done, according to His Will.
 
Leeann said:
Duoay Rheims

Luke - Chapter One

26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

31 **Behold thou shalt **conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and **thou shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. 33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? 35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall **overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy **which shall **be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren: 37 Because no word shall be impossible with God. 38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Mary was told. She acknowledge it would be done, according to His Will.
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I once went on a job interview. During the interview, the interviewer handed me a job description, with a list things I was expected to do. You will do this, you will do that.
Due to my free will, I didn’t take the job. I didn’t do any of the things the interviewer said I would do.
Mary may have been overwhelmed by the situation, and it may never have crossed her mind to disobey, but she certainly had the free will to do so.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I once went on a job interview. During the interview, the interviewer handed me a job description, with a list things I was expected to do. You will do this, you will do that.
Due to my free will, I didn’t take the job. I didn’t do any of the things the interviewer said I would do.
Mary may have been overwhelmed by the situation, and it may never have crossed her mind to disobey, but she certainly had the free will to do so.

Jon
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Hi Jon

Yes, if you consider Mary was human like all of us, then certainly she would have the free will to do so, however the Catholic church’s “Mary” was/is apparently *not *human like all of us…they present her as someone born without sin.
 
Leeann said:
Hi Jon

Yes, if you consider Mary was human like all of us, then certainly she would have the free will to do so, however the Catholic church’s “Mary” was/is apparently *not *human like all of us…they present her as someone born without sin.
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She was human nevertheless. Born without sin? So did Eve. While Eve said no, Mary said yes.

Thanks for the excellent analogy, Jon.
 
Reuben_J said:
She was human nevertheless. Born without sin? So did Eve. While Eve said no, Mary said yes.
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Read my post…two different “Marys”…the 'human Mary" of the gospels and “the Mary” that the Catholic church has invented over the centuries.
 
Leeann said:
Hi Jon

Yes, if you consider Mary was human like all of us, then certainly she would have the free will to do so, however the Catholic church’s “Mary” was/is apparently *not *human like all of us…they present her as someone born without sin.
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I can understand this, as sometimes some Catholics seem to, in my view, overdo. I don’t think that reflects their teaching, however. If we recognise her sinlessness as not of her or by her merit, but instead as fully and completely God’s grace (that is what the angel said), then at least I can she was truly human.

Jon
 
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