Mary, Did You Know

[benedictgal]

Perhaps that child’s mother has read St. Faustina’s diary. That is exactly what Jesus told her. Jesus loves a soul so much that He gives them more than one chance to turn to Him at the moment of death.

I know that Catholics are not bound to believe this, but I choose to believe.

As far as the song goes, it’s just a song. I sincerely doubt that any child’s faith is compromised by a mere Christmas song. Way too many other things to worry about in these times.

Yes, but, this is important. As I said earlier, many programs use music to teach elements of the Faith. When hymns that are doctrinally deficient are taught to children, then it gives them the wrong impression.

Y’all may think I’m nuts for being adamant about this song, but, it’s the integrity of the Church’s doctrine, the kernel of our Faith, that I believe needs safeguarding.

Recall that some time back, a poll was taken regarding what Catholics believe. According to the poll, quite a few of them didn’t believe in the Real Presence. Songs like We Remember don’t help the cause because they regard the Eucharist as merely a symbol (which is the Protestant notion).

 

[Cristiano]

Perhaps that child’s mother has read St. Faustina’s diary. That is exactly what Jesus told her. Jesus loves a soul so much that He gives them more than one chance to turn to Him at the moment of death.

This is about about a private revelation with all the implication of private revelations. A properly catechized person with a well formed conscience can choose what to believe of private revelations. However, I firmly think that private revelations should not be used to supersede the CCC or BC in the basics of primary education for the children. Maybe this is a good topic for a different/new thread.

 

[ac_claire]

The line “soon deliver you” implies that Mary is not yet delivered - this is a denial of the Immaculate Conception. Jesus will not “soon” deliver her - He has already done so. He will “soon” go the Cross, but He has already delivered her. The Catechism is very clear on the fact that Mary was preserved from original sin from the moment of her conception.

I think you are choosing to interpret this song in problematic way. Does not mean the song is actually problematic, or that it would even occur to most people to nitpick over something we probably would never have even noticed if not for these threads. (This goes for Amazing Grace, too.)

Again, I don’t think it’s necessarily appropriate for mass or for the OP’s children’s choir. But making a huge deal out of one line, no not even one line, four words of a song which may --under this certain interpreation! – seem to contradict the CCC…I think this is causing problems that don’t already exist.

I agree with whoever said that the OP happens to be one of the more knowledgable and gracious and articulate posters on this forum. That has been my observation as well, as a new member. However, this particular topic was put out there for discussion when a thread was made out of it, so I don’t think it’s uncharitible to add my opinion – that this entire discussion is becoming ridiculous. I think it is splitting hairs.

 

[La-Petite-Fleur]

I love the sound of the song, but the lyrics, as you mentioned, are troubling. Have you ever read Ven. Mary of Agreda’s Mystical City of God? She had visions or encounters with Jesus and Mary, and they showed her the specifics of the conception and birth of Jesus. But even in the Bible it appears that Mary is very aware of what happened to her… that she would conceive by the Holy Spirit. She knew, she knew!

Since it’s a non-Catholic-Christian song, they mention that Mary had to be delivered. I don’t think it is a Catholic song.

But what I do find most fascinating about the song is that it is a prayer to Mary. The entire song is speaking to Mary. That amazed me, since most protestants don’t believe in the communion of Saints.

 

[pnewton]

This brings up another interesting point: Of course she knew she was kissing the face of God. After all, didn’t the Archangel Gabriel tell Mary that the child she was going to conceive would be the Son of God?

And her cousin Elizabeth who called her the mother of her Lord.

 

[ncjohn]

Let’s hope I’ve got the hang of posting links from the Catholic answers site:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=163486​

The song is just very problematic.

And yet, golly gee, even Michelle states that the song can be viewed as orthodox
Michelle Arnold:

Both songs can be understood in an orthodox manner but not at first glance.

while you are proclaiming it to be “heretical”.

As I said earlier, there are times when many things need to be clarified to the young–and sometimes the not so young–in teachable moments. I often had to explain certain gospel readings–which can’t be classified as heretical–to my children when they were young because they got the meanings totally backwards. Should we outlaw reading the gospel too because people can be confused?

I guess you are certainly entitled to find the song “problematic”, though I don’t think you have the credentials to proclaim “heresy”, though any of us can certainly question if something might be.

What I find more “problematic” is that many on this site seem to think they have the authority to make pronouncements, based on their own opinion and preference, as if it were the mind of the Church, and that anyone who dares to disagree or have different preferences is then uninformed or less Catholic. Some of us actually do have a good deal of education and Catholic experience to fall back on; we just happen to disagree with some of your conclusions.

I’ll drop out at this point as nothing is going to be accomplished here anyway.

 

[Joysong]

La-Petite-Fleur:

But what I do find most fascinating about the song is that it is a prayer to Mary. The entire song is speaking to Mary. That amazed me, since most protestants don’t believe in the communion of Saints.

What a delightful breath of fresh air and perspective in this thread!
Something many of us overlooked, and something which just may be very pleasing to God due to the clean heart of the author. If that is how he envisioned Mary in his wonderment, even though his spiritual growth may yet be in seed form, who’s to say Mary was not honored in his heart?

I am reminded of my signature line, and that when the heart is right, all things — ALL things created work together for our good and God’s glory. May I share a beautiful example of this I just found today in another thread. A child-like heart will find God/Mary in everything they see or hear, even in the cup-shape of a flower! I simply showed him a picture, but his mind elevated it to a higher realm.

It shows a very shallow amount of faith in God if one were to think that the devil lies in every corner and believe that God is less than omnipotent to ‘deliver us from evil.’

 

[La-Petite-Fleur]

What a delightful breath of fresh air and perspective in this thread!

Blushes :hug1: Thanks .

 

[otjm]

Mark Lowry is an Evangelical Protestant, so there’s no need to ponder what he means. He doesn’t believe in the Immaculate Conception.

                I've never cared for the song myself as it has no basis in Scripture or Tradition.

Then you need to actually listen to the song, as it is steeped in Scripture.

 

[pnewton]

Then you need to actually listen to the song, as it is steeped in Scripture.

He must have missed the part where both Gabriel and Elizabeth clued her in.

 

[ac_claire]

He must have missed the part where both Gabriel and Elizabeth clued her in.

An earlier post from this thread bears repeating:

jim:

The hymn is not a list of literal questions presented to our Blessed Mother as if she didn’t know, but rather the expression of wonder over the mysterious events, presented by the author and those who sing it.

Its much the way one lover ask the other, “do you know I love you?”

 

[benedictgal]

An earlier post from this thread bears repeating:

Remember, though, ac claire, the authors of the song are Protestant. Again, I don’t think you read the entire lyrics. The main bone of contention here is that the authors claim that Jesus didn’t deliver Mary until after his Passion, Death and Resurrection. This goes against the Church’s dogmatic and doctrinal teaching on Mary.

The “did you know” questions are secondary concerns that seem to imply and reinforce the Protestant belief that Mary didn’t know the full extent of her Son’s identity. Again, this also contradicts Church teaching.

I’m afraid that Jim is trying to make poetic license fit into this; however, as pnewton excellently pointed out, the shoes don’t fit, Cinderella.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Remember, though, ac claire, the authors of the song are Protestant. Again, I don’t think you read the entire lyrics. The main bone of contention here is that the authors claim that Jesus didn’t deliver Mary until after his Passion, Death and Resurrection. This goes against the Church’s dogmatic and doctrinal teaching on Mary.

The “did you know” questions are secondary concerns that seem to imply and reinforce the Protestant belief that Mary didn’t know the full extent of her Son’s identity. Again, this also contradicts Church teaching.

I’m afraid that Jim is trying to make poetic license fit into this; however, as pnewton excellently pointed out, the shoes don’t fit, Cinderella.

I never knew that this song was written by a protestant, until it was pointed out in this thread.

Until then, I just saw the song as a beuatiful hymn honoring Mary. The first time I heard the hymn was at the Lasalette Shrine in Attelboro, MA, when Father Pat, sung it at his concert. I bought his CD and its on there as well.

Thanks for point out that this hymn was written by protestants, who are of course heretics and we should always avoid them and their music.

Of course I’m being sarcastic!

I remember reading about a Christian concert which featured many protestant artist. However, John Michael Talbot was also playing along with his good friend, Michael Card. One of my friends was at the concert and he said how wonderful it was. However, many of the protestants in the audience demonstrated their own bigotry towards Catholics, when John Michael Talbot came on the stage. They not only got up and walked out, but many stood around and talked through his set. It was rude to say the least.

Until this thread, I thought religious bigotry was limited toward Catholics, but now I’ve learned, it goes both ways.

Thanks to all who educated me on this fact.

Jim

 

[benedictgal]

I never knew that this song was written by a protestant, until it was pointed out in this thread.

Until then, I just saw the song as a beuatiful hymn honoring Mary. The first time I heard the hymn was at the Lasalette Shrine in Attelboro, MA, when Father Pat, sung it at his concert. I bought his CD and its on there as well.

Thanks for point out that this hymn was written by protestants, who are of course heretics and we should always avoid them and their music.

Of course I’m being sarcastic!

I remember reading about a Christian concert which featured many protestant artist. However, John Michael Talbot was also playing along with his good friend, Michael Card. One of my friends was at the concert and he said how wonderful it was. However, many of the protestants in the audience demonstrated their own bigotry towards Catholics, when John Michael Talbot came on the stage. They not only got up and walked out, but many stood around and talked through his set. It was rude to say the least.

Until this thread, I thought religious bigotry was limited toward Catholics, but now I’ve learned, it goes both ways.

Thanks to all who educated me on this fact.

Jim

Jim, how dare you bring up the bigotry card? This issue exists entirely in your own head. Ecumenism does not mean selling out on our beliefs. When a Protestant hymn, sung in a Catholic Church, goes squarely against the the Church has taught and defined ex cathedra, there are serious problems with the song.

When I went to UT, my two best friends were Baptist gals from East Texas. We have since kept in touch and I attended my friend’s wedding this past summer. We had a blast together. In fact, we never brought up religion, and have not, to this day. We respect each other’s beliefs. They are like sisters to me. Do not paint me into a box when it comes to the bigotry card. Furthermore, my objection is to the content of the song.

No one but you has brought up this issue of bigotry. You are clearly reading things into this thread that aren’t there. I repeat, when a Protestant writes a song that goes squarely against Catholic dogma and doctrine and is sung in a Catholic Church, therein lines the big problem. You have completely missed the boat there.

 

[pnewton]

Until this thread, I thought religious bigotry was limited toward Catholics, but now I’ve learned, it goes both ways.
Jim

This is an unfair characterization. Bigotry has nothing to do with the objection. If you read this thread you will see primarily it is the content that is being discussed.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This is an unfair characterization. Bigotry has nothing to do with the objection. If you read this thread you will see primarily it is the content that is being discussed.

If you read the thread you will read that thos who oppose the hymn, say it is written by protestant evangelical and heretical, therefore should not be heard or sung by Catholic children.

Thats religious bigotry, no two ways about it.

Sorry if this offends you!

Jim

 

[benedictgal]

If you read the thread you will read that thos who oppose the hymn, say it is written by protestant evangelical and heretical, therefore should not be heard or sung by Catholic children.

Thats religious bigotry, no two ways about it.

Sorry if this offends you!

Jim

Jim, it is you who have turned this nto an issue of bigotry. How dare you infer that? You purposely left out the main bone of contention: the content of the hymn. It is you, therefore, who have not read the entire content of this thread and are only interpreting things as you’d like to see them, not as they are.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Jim, it is you who have turned this nto an issue of bigotry. How dare you infer that? You purposely left out the main bone of contention: the content of the hymn. It is you, therefore, who have not read the entire content of this thread and are only interpreting things as you’d like to see them, not as they are.

Sorry, but it wasn’t me who brought up that the author was an evangelical protestant and therefore, his beliefs are heretical, which makes the song heretical.

As I said, I didn’t even know the song was written by a protestant, until it was brought up in this forum.

Jim

 

[benedictgal]

Sorry, but it wasn’t me who brought up that the author was an evangelical protestant and therefore, his beliefs are heretical, which makes the song heretical.

As I said, I didn’t even know the song was written by a protestant, until it was brought up in this forum.

Jim

Jim, it wasn’t you who brought it up, but you insist on flaming the fans of ecclesiastical bigotry, even though nothing of the sort has been brought up except by you. Furthermore, the song is heretical because it states that Mary was “delivered” after Jesus’ Passion, Death and Resurrection, and doesn’t take into account Catholic dogma and doctrine concerning the Immaculate Conception. It is you who are misconstruing things.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

benedictgal

Furthermore, the song is heretical because it states that Mary was “delivered” after Jesus’ Passion, Death and Resurrection, and doesn’t take into account Catholic dogma and doctrine concerning the Immaculate Conception.

and with that ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.

Jim