Mary didn't come on Aug. 13th, but

[MariaChristi]

Mary did appear to the children at Fatima on Aug. 19, 1917. Why not the 13th as in the other apparitions? The story is told HERE

In this Fourth apparition:

…As it was the Lady’s plans were delayed slightly. On Sunday the 19th Lucia, her brother John, and Francisco, were grazing the sheep at a place known as Valinhos. It was located on the side of the same hillock opposite Aljustrel where the angel appeared twice, though a little farther north. At apout 4 o’clock, sensing that Our Lady was about to appear, Lucia tried unsuccessfully to get John to fetch Jacinta, until she offered him a couple pennies for the errand. As she and Francisco waited they saw the characteristic light. The moment Jacinta arrived the Lady appeared…

When Lucia asked about the cures of some sick people, Mary answered:

“Some I will cure during the year. (looking sadly at them) Pray, pray very much. Make sacrifices for sinners. Many souls go to hell, because no one is willing to help them with sacrifice.” Having said that she departed as she had on the other occasions.

Let us heed our Lady’s words. Let us pray, pray very much and make sacrifices for sinners. Let us pray the Rosary with more attention and devotion. Let us ask the Holy Spirit to guide us in making the sacrifices which will help sinners to return to God.

O my Jesus, pardon us and save us from the fires of hell. Draw all souls to heaven, especially those who have no one to pray for them.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Mary did appear to the children at Fatima on Aug. 19, 1917. Why not the 13th as in the other apparitions? The story is told HERE

In this Fourth apparition:

When Lucia asked about the cures of some sick people, Mary answered:

Let us heed our Lady’s words. Let us pray, pray very much and make sacrifices for sinners. Let us pray the Rosary with more attention and devotion. Let us ask the Holy Spirit to guide us in making the sacrifices which will help sinners to return to God.

O my Jesus, pardon us and save us from the fires of hell. Draw all souls to heaven, especially those who have no one to pray for them.

That is interesting. I wonder what significance it has?

 

[jediliz]

The socialist government of Portugal had arrested the children. They were delayed in being able to be in the cova on the 13th.

 

[Mark121359]

Mary did appear to the children at Fatima on Aug. 19, 1917. Why not the 13th as in the other apparitions? The story is told HERE

In this Fourth apparition:

When Lucia asked about the cures of some sick people, Mary answered:

Let us heed our Lady’s words. Let us pray, pray very much and make sacrifices for sinners. Let us pray the Rosary with more attention and devotion. Let us ask the Holy Spirit to guide us in making the sacrifices which will help sinners to return to God.

O my Jesus, pardon us and save us from the fires of hell. Draw all souls to heaven, especially those who have no one to pray for them.

The 13th - 15th of August 1917 to me at least, is one of the greatest proofs that these children were authentic. Can anyone come up with not one, but three children who would not crack under similar circumstances. Further, these children were extremely young at 7, 9, and 10 years of age. These kids were separated, then told to deny these apparitions with threats of being boiled in oil and each of them were willing to die rather than deny the Blessed Lady. Like St. Bernadette of Lourdes before them, who herself was under similar stress from local authorities, it’s as if Mary Herself was instructing and encouraging them.Tell me something, how many adults do you think would do the same under this kind of extreme duress? It’s nothing short of extraordinary!

Peace, Mark

 

[MariaChristi]

That is interesting. I wonder what significance it has?

Dear Hoosier,

Which part of the story are you referring to, in wondering about the significance? There are several parts to ponder in this 4th apparition, and the circumstances described in the link.

Thanks for your reply, but please could you clarify your question a bit more? Thanks.

 

[MariaChristi]

The socialist government of Portugal had arrested the children. They were delayed in being able to be in the cova on the 13th.

Yes, the link gives the details. Thanks for your reply.

 

[MariaChristi]

The 13th - 15th of August 1917 to me at least, is one of the greatest proofs that these children were authentic. Can anyone come up with not one, but three children who would not crack under similar circumstances. Further, these children were extremely young at 7, 9, and 10 years of age. These kids were separated, then told to deny these apparitions with threats of being boiled in oil and each of them were willing to die rather than deny the Blessed Lady. Like St. Bernadette of Lourdes before them, who herself was under similar stress from local authorities, it’s as if Mary Herself was instructing and encouraging them.Tell me something, how many adults do you think would do the same under this kind of extreme duress? It’s nothing short of extraordinary!

Peace, Mark

Dear Mark,

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you, those little children were given tremendous graces to withstand the threats and remain firm in their faith. It is true for all of us, in every trial, that God doesn’t ask us to do anything He will not give us grace to do. His Graces come to us through Mary. We need to remember Jesus’ words to His disciples:

Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 18:3)

 

[patricius79]

Dear Mark,

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you, those little children were given tremendous graces to withstand the threats and remain firm in their faith. It is true for all of us, in every trial, that God doesn’t ask us to do anything He will not give us grace to do. His Graces come to us through Mary. We need to remember Jesus’ words to His disciples:

That’s right. The more trouble Jesus allows, the more help Jesus gives through Our Lady and her Spouse, the Holy Spirit. I’m starting to understand that.

 

[MariaChristi]

That’s right. The more trouble Jesus allows, the more help Jesus gives through Our Lady and her Spouse, the Holy Spirit. I’m starting to understand that.

Dear brother Pat,

Thanks so much for your reply and your willingness, by God’s Grace, to keep learning from Jesus through Mary the value of the Cross and suffering. That is the Way, the Truth and the Life, Jesus has taught us by His words and all He did while on this earth. His Resurrection is the hope of our future glory!

Mary our Mother, Mother of our Faith, remained at the foot of His Cross and offered her pierced heart with His Pierced Heart on Calvary. She remained in Hope, waiting for Him to rise – and then, how greatly her heart rejoiced in Holy Charity on Easter Sunday!

We need to learn from Mary as the little children at Fatima learned, to pray with faith, hope and above all charity, and continue to ask the Holy Spirit to show us the sacrifices we can make for poor sinners. Many souls may go to hell because no one prayed or offered sacrifices for them.

O my Jesus, pardon us and save us from the fires of hell. Draw all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of God’s Mercy.

 

[patricius79]

Dear brother Pat,

Thanks so much for your reply and your willingness, by God’s Grace, to keep learning from Jesus through Mary the value of the Cross and suffering. That is the Way, the Truth and the Life, Jesus has taught us by His words and all He did while on this earth. His Resurrection is the hope of our future glory!

Mary our Mother, Mother of our Faith, remained at the foot of His Cross and offered her pierced heart with His Pierced Heart on Calvary. She remained in Hope, waiting for Him to rise – and then, how greatly her heart rejoiced in Holy Charity on Easter Sunday!

We need to learn from Mary as the little children at Fatima learned, to pray with faith, hope and above all charity, and continue to ask the Holy Spirit to show us the sacrifices we can make for poor sinners. Many souls may go to hell because no one prayed or offered sacrifices for them.

O my Jesus, pardon us and save us from the fires of hell. Draw all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of God’s Mercy.

In light of our power to save souls when we suffer, and offer up our suffering, we should be inwardly glad when we have trials.

But Pope Leo XIII saw–not long before Fatima-- that the world was losing sight of the value of suffering.

1. A second evil, one which is specially pernicious, and one which, owing to the increasing mischief which it works among souls, we can never sufficiently deplore, is to be found in repugnance to suffering and eagerness to escape whatever is hard or painful to endure. The greater number are thus robbed of that peace and freedom of mind which remains the reward of those who do what is right undismayed by the perils or troubles to be met with in doing so. Rather do they dream of a chimeric civilization in which all that is unpleasant shall be removed, and all that is pleasant shall be supplied. By this passionate and unbridled desire of living a life of pleasure, the minds of men are weakened, and if they do not entirely succumb, they become demoralized and miserably cower and sink under the hardships of the battle of life.
   w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_08091893_laetitiae-sanctae.html

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I offered up my dental visit today to save sinners, and for the Holy Father and for reparation to Mary, as suggested by Saints Francisco and Jacinta. It was more uncomfortable than usual so I hope it maybe saved half a sinner at least.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Dear Hoosier,

Which part of the story are you referring to, in wondering about the significance? There are several parts to ponder in this 4th apparition, and the circumstances described in the link.

Thanks for your reply, but please could you clarify your question a bit more? Thanks.

Specifically the difference in the dates for august.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Specifically the difference in the dates for august.

The kids were in prison, being threatened and locked up with hardened criminals to try to get them to either say the whole visions thing was a big lie, or to reveal the big secret they had promised not to tell. They couldn’t go to the usual spot on the usual day (the 13th) to see the lady. After they got out and had gone back to their normal sheep herding duties, she appeared to them a few days late.

 

[MariaChristi]

In light of our power to save souls when we suffer, and offer up our suffering, we should be inwardly glad when we have trials.

But Pope Leo XIII saw–not long before Fatima-- that the world was losing sight of the value of suffering.

1. A second evil, one which is specially pernicious, and one which, owing to the increasing mischief which it works among souls, we can never sufficiently deplore, is to be found in repugnance to suffering and eagerness to escape whatever is hard or painful to endure. The greater number are thus robbed of that peace and freedom of mind which remains the reward of those who do what is right undismayed by the perils or troubles to be met with in doing so. Rather do they dream of a chimeric civilization in which all that is unpleasant shall be removed, and all that is pleasant shall be supplied. By this passionate and unbridled desire of living a life of pleasure, the minds of men are weakened, and if they do not entirely succumb, they become demoralized and miserably cower and sink under the hardships of the battle of life.
   w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_08091893_laetitiae-sanctae.html

Thanks again, dear brother Pat,

How truly Pope Leo XIII saw the situation in his time! Let us not be robbed of our Peace in Jesus through Mary in our present trials. Rather let us stand as Mary did, by the power of the Holy Spirit, and offer ourselves with Jesus to the Will of the Father in everything!

 

[MariaChristi]

I offered up my dental visit today to save sinners, and for the Holy Father and for reparation to Mary, as suggested by Saints Francisco and Jacinta. It was more uncomfortable than usual so I hope it maybe saved half a sinner at least.

Thanks for your willingness to offer your sufferings as the children learned to do. St. Louis de Montfort wrote that Jesus and Mary are never “outdone in generosity”.

 

[MariaChristi]

Specifically the difference in the dates for august.

Thanks for the clarification. At the First Apparition in May, Our Lady told the children:

I want you to return here on the thirteenth of each month for the next six months, and at the very same hour

However, (this is the explanation given at the EWTN link why Mary did not appear on the 13th but only later on the 19th):

Under the pretext of providing his personal automobile, so that the children could travel safely through the crowds pressing around their homes, the civil Administrator or Mayor of the district in which Fátima was located, arrived in Aljustrel on the morning of August 13th. A previous attempt on August 11th to obtain the “truth” from the children having been unsuccessful, Artur Santos, an apostate Catholic and high Mason, had devised a scheme by which he would take them into custody and force them to reveal all. With a show of good will he now offered to take the three and their parents to see the parish priest, whom he claimed wished to see them, and then to the Cova. At the parish house he abandoned this ruse, and the parents, taking the children alone from there to the district headquarters in Vila Nova de Ourem, some 9 miles away. Here he tried bribes, threats of death and locking them in a cell with other “criminals” in order to get them to recant their story. It was to no avail. Despite their ages, their belief in the Lady and their courage was unshakeable.

Meanwhile, in the Cova at noon on the 13th the characteristic external signs of the Apparition appeared for the benefit of the crowd, the greatest crowd to that time. After they ended the crowd dispersed, as yet unaware of the trickery of the government.

The “trial” of the children, however, continued for two days, to the consternation of their families. Finally, on the Feast of the Assumption, August 15, the Administrator had them driven back to Fátima and deposited on the steps of the rectory. Here they were seen as the people, who had just come from Mass, were trying to determined from Ti Marto where the children were. Their anger was poured out on the driver, and on the Mayor when he arrived a little later, both of whom were no doubt glad to be rid of their little charges and to escape unscathed. It would effectively be the only serious effort of the civil authorities to interfere with the Lady of Fátima.

As it was the Lady’s plans were delayed slightly. On Sunday the 19th Lucia, her brother John, and Francisco, were grazing the sheep at a place known as Valinhos. It was located on the side of the same hillock opposite Aljustrel where the angel appeared twice, though a little farther north. At apout 4 o’clock, sensing that Our Lady was about to appear, Lucia tried unsuccessfully to get John to fetch Jacinta, until she offered him a couple pennies for the errand. As she and Francisco waited they saw the characteristic light. The moment Jacinta arrived the Lady appeared.

It seems to me that God permitted this incident for His Own Purpose. I do not know for sure why He permitted the delay in Our Lady’s Appearing until August 19th, rather than the 13th. Certainly God could have thwarted the plot of the Administrator and saved the children from the trial they suffered in being threatened as they were. Perhaps he wanted to allow them and us to see that God’s Will is accomplished despite man’s efforts. St. John Paul II wrote that God sets a limit to the evil He permits. God may also have wanted the children to experince His Grace working in them through this trial. Hope that helps a bit.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It seems to me that God permitted this incident for His Own Purpose. I do not know for sure why He permitted the delay in Our Lady’s Appearing until August 19th, rather than the 13th. Certainly God could have thwarted the plot of the Administrator and saved the children from the trial they suffered in being threatened as they were. Perhaps he wanted to allow them and us to see that God’s Will is accomplished despite man’s efforts.

It’s my understanding the children offered their prison experience to save souls, and also did some evangelizing in the prison and had all the hardened criminals praying along with them. Perhaps God wanted to use the children to save one or more of those men. The prison experience also permitted the children to demonstrate heroism, which probably helped the sainthood cause of Francisco and Jacinta. Without such an experience, it might have been harder for them to be canonized, and since canonization causes their message to reach more people, this all might have been a part of God’s plan.

 

[MariaChristi]

It’s my understanding the children offered their prison experience to save souls, and also did some evangelizing in the prison and had all the hardened criminals praying along with them. Perhaps God wanted to use the children to save one or more of those men. The prison experience also permitted the children to demonstrate heroism, which probably helped the sainthood cause of Francisco and Jacinta. Without such an experience, it might have been harder for them to be canonized, and since canonization causes their message to reach more people, this all might have been a part of God’s plan.

Thanks for your thoughts, Tis Bearself. Perhaps you’ve read more on this experience which the children endured. I’ve only read Sister Lucia’s last book, “Calls” From the Message of Fatima, and Sister didn’t speak of that particular experience the children had. I posted the account given in the EWTN website on the apparitions. Whatever the children experienced – all happened by the permissive will of God. We can be sure He worked good for the children through their sufferings, as He assures us in His Word:

We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. (Rom 8:28)

Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Thanks for your thoughts, Tis Bearself. Perhaps you’ve read more on this experience which the children endured. I’ve only read Sister Lucia’s last book, “Calls” From the Message of Fatima, and Sister didn’t speak of that particular experience the children had. I posted the account given in the EWTN website on the apparitions. Whatever the children experienced – all happened by the permissive will of God. We can be sure He worked good for the children through their sufferings, as He assures us in His Word:

Yes, I’ve read a few books on the Fatima children that described them praying in the prison and getting others to pray with them. This past Sunday I also attended the specia Fatima commemoration service at the Blue Army Shrine (World Apostolate of Fatima Shrine in Asbury, NJ) and Rev. Chris Alar was the featured speaker; he also talked about the evangelizing the children did in the prison, and how Francesco said they could offer the experience to save souls, and Jacinta added, “and for the Holy Father, and in reparation to Mary”. So it was on my mind.

I have Sister Lucia’s autobiography, but have not yet read to the point of the prison experience, and unfortunately I misplaced the book somewhere in my house. I’m waiting to find it again so I can read the rest…

 

[MariaChristi]

Yes, I’ve read a few books on the Fatima children that described them praying in the prison and getting others to pray with them. This past Sunday I also attended the specia Fatima commemoration service at the Blue Army Shrine (World Apostolate of Fatima Shrine in Asbury, NJ) and Rev. Chris Alar was the featured speaker; he also talked about the evangelizing the children did in the prison, and how Francesco said they could offer the experience to save souls, and Jacinta added, “and for the Holy Father, and in reparation to Mary”. So it was on my mind.

I have Sister Lucia’s autobiography, but have not yet read to the point of the prison experience, and unfortunately I misplaced the book somewhere in my house. I’m waiting to find it again so I can read the rest…

Dear Tis Bearself,

Thanks for sharing your experiences and all the reading you have done. The three little children are such beautiful examples for all of us. They also can give us confidence that whatever the Lord asks us to do, through Mary, He will give us grace to do, always through her.