Mary Full of Grace: The Greek Words

[rr1213]

Ok, this is a vain request I’d bet, but I’d love to limit the discussion to the Angiel Gabriel’s announcement to Mary that she was “full of grace” and, particularly, the meaning of the Greek words used there. I’ve seen people post here and elsewhere, and articles here and elsewhere, that seem to be all over the place as to the meaning of the phrase. Of course, many bible translations render it “favored one” or “highly favored one” and I’ve seen Catholics say that this translation is erroneous.

I know NOTHING of Greek that I didn’t learn pledging my fraternity 25 years ago. (In other words, I can recite portions of the alphabet on a good day…Alpha, Beta…Omega).

So, for those Greek scholars amongst us, can you enlighten me as to the words used and the various controversies as to what they mean? I am particularly interested in the corollary of the Immaculate Conception that Mary was without sin throughout her life and how being “full of grace” either demonstrates that point or is persuasive/non-persuasive on the matter.

There are plenty of threads where we can get emotional about this issue, so if possible let’s try to keep this one learned and reasoned.

Much thanks,
RR1213

 

[thistle]

Ok, this is a vain request I’d bet, but I’d love to limit the discussion to the Angiel Gabriel’s announcement to Mary that she was “full of grace” and, particularly, the meaning of the Greek words used there. I’ve seen people post here and elsewhere, and articles here and elsewhere, that seem to be all over the place as to the meaning of the phrase. Of course, many bible translations render it “favored one” or “highly favored one” and I’ve seen Catholics say that this translation is erroneous.

I know NOTHING of Greek that I didn’t learn pledging my fraternity 25 years ago. (In other words, I can recite portions of the alphabet on a good day…Alpha, Beta…Omega).

So, for those Greek scholars amongst us, can you enlighten me as to the words used and the various controversies as to what they mean? I am particularly interested in the corollary of the Immaculate Conception that Mary was without sin throughout her life and how being “full of grace” either demonstrates that point or is persuasive/non-persuasive on the matter.

There are plenty of threads where we can get emotional about this issue, so if possible let’s try to keep this one learned and reasoned.

Much thanks,
RR1213

Below is the Greek with the literal English translation but I’m no Greek scholar so I’ll let the experts take it from here.

Luke 1:28

kai eiserchomai pros heautou legO chairO charitoO ho kurios meta su

and into-coming towards her he-said be-joying having-been-graced the Master with you

 

[RyanL]

I’ll let someone else speak to the Greek, but one thing you should probably note at the outset is the manner in which the Greek term “kecharitomene” (past perfect participle) is used.

It’s used as a name. It’s used by the messenger of God. It’s not a huge leap to see that this is God’s name for Mary.

What’s significant about that? Well, whatever the Greek word means it is definitely going to be important for one very good reason: every time God changes someone’s name in the Bible it says something about the individual and their role in (or a significant feature of) God’s plan of salvation.

Examples:
Abram = Abraham
Sarai = Sarah
Jacob = Israel
Jesus = Emmanuel
Simon = Peter/Cephas
Mary = Full of Grace (Kecharitomene)

I trust I don’t need to explain the significance of the first four (or perhaps even the first five) names listed in God’s plan of salvation; further, their name changes means something about the individuals. Abram actually does become the exalted father God promised. Jesus actually is Emmanuel, or “God with us”.

Saul/Paul of Tarsus, of course, does not fall into this list as his name was not apparently changed by God (or at least there’s no Scriptural reference as such).

Objection: Well Mary isn’t called “Kecharitomene” for the rest of the Bible.
Reply: Neither is Jesus called Emmanuel. What’s your point? Does that make it any less true?

So you see that whatever this name means, it definitely means something important – both about the individual and about God’s plan of salvation for us. Keep that Jewish mindset as you read the replies.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[Mickey]

Perhaps the closest translation of “Kecharitomene” would be:

“Ever graced”

 

[MariaG]

Greek expert? No.

But there is this explanation from CA library. You may have already seen it and it may not satisfy your question(?), but I’ll post it anyway.

Immaculate Conception and Assumption
When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

The traditional translation, “full of grace,” is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of “highly favored daughter.” Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for “daughter”). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning “to fill or endow with grace.” Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence.

God bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

I also plugged into a search in CA Library and found this article that puts forward the Catholic position and some objections to this position with much discussion on the Greek.

CRI’s Attack on Mary: Part II
By “Father Mateo”
http://www.catholic.com/images/1x1trans.gif
Hope that helps.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[rr1213]

Thanks for the replies. I will take a look at the articles cited. Any one else have comments on the meaning or effect of the Greek words at issue…on either side of the question of the Immaculate Conception?

 

[Michael_G]

Thanks for the replies. I will take a look at the articles cited. Any one else have comments on the meaning or effect of the Greek words at issue…on either side of the question of the Immaculate Conception?

As someone has already noted all greek lexicons acknowledge that Kecharitomene is a perfect passive particple. The Perfect tense means as follows:**
Perfect Tense**
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect(perfect passive participle).
what is completed the charito is translated as grace which ultimatly means she was completly graced and the action is continuting in full effect. All Bibles prior to 1500 translated as full of grace, and so did the arameic peschitta from arount 200-400 AD translate as full of grace. The original 1611 King James translated as highly favoured, even eliminating the word grace, although in the margin notes they noted it could be rendered as much graced. The Geneva Bible also translated as highly favored but in the Geneva commentary they noted that it was legitamate to translate as full of grace.

However, Luke 1:28 uses a special conjugated form of “charitoo.” It uses “kecharitomene,” while Ephesians 1:6 uses "echaritosen," which is a different form of the verb “charitoo.” Echaritosen means “he graced” (bestowed grace**).** Echaritosen signifies a momentary action, an action brought to pass. (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament, p.166). Whereas, Kecharitomene, the perfect passive participle, shows a completeness with a permanent result. Kecharitomene denotes continuance of a completed action (H. W. Smyth, Greek Grammar [Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1968], p. 108-109, sec 1852:b; also Blass and DeBrunner, p.175).

" ‘Highly favoured’ (kecharitomene). Perfect passive participle of charitoo and means endowed with grace (charis), enriched with grace as in Ephesians. 1:6, . . . **The Vulgate gratiae plena [full of grace] "is right (A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, p. 14)
**

 

[sandusky]

As someone has already noted all greek lexicons acknowledge that Kecharitomene is a perfect passive particple. The Perfect tense means as follows:**
Perfect Tense**
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect(perfect passive participle).
what is completed the charito is translated as grace which ultimatly means she was completly graced and the action is continuting in full effect. All Bibles prior to 1500 translated as full of grace, and so did the arameic peschitta from arount 200-400 AD translate as full of grace. The original 1611 King James translated as highly favoured, even eliminating the word grace, although in the margin notes they noted it could be rendered as much graced. The Geneva Bible also translated as highly favored but in the Geneva commentary they noted that it was legitamate to translate as full of grace.

However, Luke 1:28 uses a special conjugated form of “charitoo.” It uses “kecharitomene,” while Ephesians 1:6 uses "echaritosen," which is a different form of the verb “charitoo.” Echaritosen means “he graced” (bestowed grace**).** Echaritosen signifies a momentary action, an action brought to pass. (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament, p.166). Whereas, Kecharitomene, the perfect passive participle, shows a completeness with a permanent result. Kecharitomene denotes continuance of a completed action (H. W. Smyth, Greek Grammar [Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1968], p. 108-109, sec 1852:b; also Blass and DeBrunner, p.175).

" ‘Highly favoured’ (kecharitomene). Perfect passive participle of charitoo and means endowed with grace (charis), enriched with grace as in Ephesians. 1:6, . . . The Vulgate gratiae plena [full of grace] "is right (A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, p. 14)

Interesting argument, but let’s see how consistent you are with it:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

have been saved = Greek sesōsmenoi = Perfect, Passive, Participle.

Salvation cannot be lost.

What do you say? :ehh:

 

[porthos11]

Interesting argument, but let’s see how consistent you are with it:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

have been saved = Greek sesōsmenoi = Perfect, Passive, Participle.

Salvation cannot be lost.

What do you say? :ehh:

Nothing. It just means that at some point in the past you have been given salvation, and it has continued to be so up to the present. Passive perfect. It says nothing about whether salvation can be lost in the future.

And kecharitomene says nothing about Mary’s state in the future either. It just means that at some point in the past, she was graced and continued to be so by the time of the angel’s announcement.

The major difference between your passage in Eph 2:8 and Luke 1:28 is that kecharitomene is substantive, while sesosmenoi is adverbial/instrumental.

 

[sandusky]

Nothing. It just means that at some point in the past you have been given salvation, and it has continued to be so up to the present. Passive perfect. It says nothing about whether salvation can be lost in the future.

And kecharitomene says nothing about Mary’s state in the future either. It just means that at some point in the past, she was graced and continued to be so by the time of the angel’s announcement.

The major difference between your passage in Eph 2:8 and Luke 1:28 is that kecharitomene is substantive, while sesosmenoi is adverbial/instrumental.

Grace, Salvation, Faith are substantivals.

The kecharitomene is also used for Mary’s sinlessness.

Nevertheless, I am not surprised at the inconsistency. Thanks.

 

[porthos11]

The kecharitomene is also used for Mary’s sinlessness.

First of all, I must correct my use of the term instrumental for sesosmenoi. It’s just adjectival. It’s dia pisteos that has an instrumental aspect to it.

The participle kecharitomene in Luke 1:28 is vocative substantive; this is what lends weight to it in support of Mary’s state. It would be weaker if it were used as an adjective. The participle’s use as a vocative substantive makes kecharitomene a title, or a replacement of her name, strongly pointing (not proving, mind you), that her being graced was closely tied in, or inherent to her nature. “Miss Grace” so to speak.

Grace and faith in your example passage Eph 2:8 are nouns, not participles. It’s sesosmenoi that’s the participle, and is not used here substantivally, as is the case of kecharitomene. Its use as a nominative adjectival describes a continuing action started in the past, and used as a predicate nominative, not as a title attributed to the saved.

Nevertheless, I am not surprised at the inconsistency. Thanks.

There isn’t really an inconsistency here, just a difference in usage, as evidenced by the differences in case and use.

 

[scylla]

Interesting argument, but let’s see how consistent you are with it:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

have been saved = Greek sesōsmenoi = Perfect, Passive, Participle.

Salvation cannot be lost.

What do you say? :ehh:

So do you believe that Mary was without sin for the rest of her life? Wow, that is great, you are on your way to becoming Catholic.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[sandusky]

porthos11:

First of all, I must correct my use of the term instrumental for sesosmenoi. It’s just adjectival. It’s dia pisteos that has an instrumental aspect to it.

The participle kecharitomene in Luke 1:28 is vocative substantive; this is what lends weight to it in support of Mary’s state. It would be weaker if it were used as an adjective. The participle’s use as a vocative substantive makes kecharitomene a title, or a replacement of her name, strongly pointing (not proving, mind you), that her being graced was closely tied in, or inherent to her nature. “Miss Grace” so to speak.

Grace and faith in your example passage Eph 2:8 are nouns, not participles. It’s sesosmenoi that’s the participle, and is not used here substantivally, as is the case of kecharitomene. Its use as a nominative adjectival describes a continuing action started in the past, and used as a predicate nominative, not as a title attributed to the saved.

All of what you say above is irrelevant; if you really knew Greek, you would know that.

From Wuest’s expanded translation:Eph 2:8-10

For by the grace have you been saved in time past completely, through faith, with the result that your salvation persists through present time; and this [salvation] is not from you as a source; of God it is the gift, not from a source of works, in order that no one might boast; for we are His handiwork, created in Christ Jesus with a view to good works which God prepared beforehand in order that within their sphere we may order our behavior.

porthos11:

There isn’t really an inconsistency here, just a difference in usage, as evidenced by the differences in case and use.

You are completely inconsistent.

Keating’s use of kecharitomene is used to “prove” Mary’s sinlessness; charitoo has nothing to do with SIN, but GRACE.

OTH, sesosmenoi is salvation, rescue, and the perfect, passive, participle is the important point concerning sesosmenoi; even though you’ll deny it, re-read Wuest’s translation.

You’ve been hit over the head with this, and you still don’t see!

(Edited to remove offensive remark.)

 

[porthos11]

From Wuest’s expanded translation:Eph 2:8-10

For by the grace have you been saved in time past completely, through faith, with the result that your salvation persists through present time; and this [salvation] is not from you as a source; of God it is the gift, not from a source of works, in order that no one might boast; for we are His handiwork, created in Christ Jesus with a view to good works which God prepared beforehand in order that within their sphere we may order our behavior.

Wuest’s translation is correct. sesosmenoi, as a passive perfect participle means that you were saved in the past, and it has persisted through the present.

All of what you say above is irrelevant; if you really knew Greek, you would know that.

You cannot stop there. You must be kind enough to point out which is irrelevant and what the real Greek says. It doesn’t suffice to dismiss as irrelevant and not address it, does it? You are obligated to correct me and point me out to the right direction.

We are only pointing out the fact that kecharitomene in Lk 1:28 is vocative substantive, while Eph 2:28’s sesosmenoi is nominative adjectival, but both of them perfect passive participles.

All I’m saying is that kecharitomene is used as a title of address for Mary, while sesosmenoi is used as an adjective to describe/modify the saved [you]. Kecharitomene simply points to Mary’s state of grace, at the time of the announcement. Catholics regard it as a strong support of the Immaculate Conception, but not outright proof, linguistically speaking.

And you are right, kecharitomene is about grace, not sin. That’s why Catholics always use the term to point out Mary’s state in terms of grace. That’s all.

What’s the problem here and where is the inconsistency? Is it irrelevant to point out differences in case and use? I think not, do you?

And I’m an amateur with Greek, especially as written in the late Pauline tradition. If there’s a problem with my Greek exegesis, please point it out.

 

[Zooey]

Interesting argument, but let’s see how consistent you are with it:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

have been saved = Greek sesōsmenoi = Perfect, Passive, Participle.

Salvation cannot be lost.

What do you say? :ehh:

You’re misunderstanding the point, is what I say. No one–that I know of–is arguing that Mary couldn’t sin; she was born free of sin, as Eve was created free of sin, is the point here.
Eve sinned anyway. Mary didn’t.
That’s the point.

 

[francisca]

Maybe what sandusky said is : Mary being ever graced does not automatically mean she is sinless.

Because we are sinful, yet God bestow grace on us as well.

I find this thread very intersting.

 

[francisca]

Maybe the question we should ask is whether “being graced” by God means the same thing as “being saved” and therefore “sinless”.

I am a fanatic believer of God’s grace as the reason why we can ULTIMATELY become sinless. I mean-- even without those greek grammars-- isn’t that so obvious?

“Being saved” in Eph 2:8-10, is a way of saying how “God persists”, so Mary as being EverGraced also show how God’s grace persists in her.

For Salvation is God’s grace, isn’t it?

 

[sandusky]

You’re misunderstanding the point, is what I say

The point is that as Mary is fully and ever graced kecharitomene, so is the believer fully and ever saved sesosmenoi.

Salvation cannot be lost, IOW, “Once Saved, Always Saved.”

 

[Mickey]

so is the believer fully and ever saved sesosmenoi

Past and present, yes. How bout future?

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling my friend.