Mary...Full of Grace?

[thomas_jd]

Can anyone on this thread tell me where the church got ‘‘Full of Grace’’ out of Luke 1:28.

Thanks,

Matthew

Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Douay Rheims Version
Luke 1:28 And he came to her and said, Hail full of grace, the Lord is with you. The Navarre Bible
The footnote in the bibles prior to the NAB cites “O favored one.” The text states “Hail full of grace.” In the preface to the new american bible the following is written: “It is the achievement of some fifty biblical scholars, the greater number of whom , though not all, are catholics.”
I do not use the NAB Bible. They dropped the angels greeting entirely.This version does not provide the" Hail full of grace" statement in the footnotes. I find this omission partically
disturbing and suspicious.
Grace is , in this instance , the sharing of Gods life. There is no room for sin in
Mary.

 

[mandateman]

Here is some new ideas I have. I think that the true importance of the Blessed Mother has been overlooked by everyone. I know that it is impossible to love Our Blessed Mother more then she deserves.

God loves the Blessed Virgin Mary so much that He became related to her in everyway a man can be to a woman. He was her Father (Creator) her Son and her spouse (the Holy Spirit) In fact I think we must go back to the very beginning before creation to understand The Blessed Virgin Mary’s importance.

We did God create angels or humans and why this creation. As God He could see an infinite possiblity of creations of beings but he only chose this particular creation what made Him chose this one. Because only in this particular creation was there someone worthy of Him. The Blessed Virgin Mary.

The Blessed Virgin Mary is Perfect. She is just as perfect as God but finitely perfect. Some saints have said that for us God is Heaven but for God she is His Heaven. He could have just created her and had all He wanted but she is human and unlike God her joy can be increased by praise and honor etc. So angels and humans were necessary to make Our Blessed Mothers heaven all that it could be. To create her and a court to honor her it was necessary to create all her dumb brothers and sisters. Then it was necessary to redeem them or not even one of us would have been saved to be with our perfect sister and honor her and increase her experience of heaven. We must take into consideration that we offer nothing at all to God’s joy.

So I am saying that the primary reason that began all creation and redemption for all of us is God’s love for His Holy Mother. Our opportunity for existance, life and redemption comes to us from the irresistable beauty of The Blessed Virgin Mary’s perfect nature and virtues. God’s infinite goodness welcomed even our wretchedness because we are her family so the opportunity was made manifest. Redemption was necessary both to express God’s goodness and to provide a celestial court to bring greater joy to His Queen.

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Douay Rheims Version
Luke 1:28 And he came to her and said, Hail full of grace, the Lord is with you. The Navarre Bible
The footnote in the bibles prior to the NAB cites “O favored one.” The text states “Hail full of grace.” In the preface to the new american bible the following is written: “It is the achievement of some fifty biblical scholars, the greater number of whom , though not all, are catholics.”
I do not use the NAB Bible. They dropped the angels greeting entirely.This version does not provide the" Hail full of grace" statement in the footnotes. I find this omission partically
disturbing and suspicious.
Grace is , in this instance , the sharing of Gods life. There is no room for sin in
Mary.

That explains it… The nab bible does not have that quote in it. When i was doing bible study years ago i knew i read “Hail full of Grace” in Luke1:28.
Thanks Thomas…

Matthew

 

[jtodisco]

Mandateman, I just want to start by saying that I love the Blessed Mother very much. However, I feel that you may be inadvertently engaging in idolatry (or at least seem to be dangerously close to doing so). I could be incorrect in this view, but the way you worded things in your post it really would seem to indicate a slightly misguided view of the Blessed Mother (not that I claim to be a theological expert of any sort). If I have misunderstood what you meant to express then I apologize.

It is true, the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Immaculate Conception, and as such is the most perfect of God’s creations. However, she is still a creature. She is not perfect like God is perfect. By the mere fact that she is a created being demonstrates that. God is the Alpha and the Omega, He is without beginning or end, He is the Creator and as is said in the psalms He is even higher above us than the heavens are above the earth.

Also, God doesn’t “need” to do anything. He is God. So if God had wanted to just create Mary He could have done so easily. There’s no reason to think that God needed to create anyone or anything else in order to create Mary. So the idea that He created the rest of us just so He could create or give praise to Mary doesn’t make any sense. I do not know of a single Christian denomination (let alone the Catholic Church) which has put forth any idea even remotely resembling that one. The Catechism and the Bible are fairly clear as to why God created anything (particularly us humans) at all. The first sentence of the prologue of the Catechism states:

“God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life.”

So God created us out of an inexpressibly beautiful act of generosity and love. That same generosity and love led Him to send His only begotten Son to save us from ourselves. And He sent His Son to us through the Immaculately Conceived, Ever-Virgin, Blessed Mother. But even Mary needed to be saved, though she was saved in an entirely unique manner than the rest of us. Again the Catechism helps us here by stating that:

“The ‘splendor of an entirely unique holiness’ by which Mary is ‘enriched from the first instant of her conception’ comes wholly from Christ: she is ‘redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son.’”

Mary is perfectly without sin and is our Advocate and Mediatrix, she is considered to be the “New Ark” and the “New Eve” but she is still subordinate to God. According to the Catechism:

“Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men…flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.” “No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as among his creatures, so also this unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in the one source.”

And as for the love that is shown to Mary, it is true that you should love Mary very deeply. She is your Lord’s Mother, she is your Mother, and she is the Mother of us all. However, the love shown to Mary (veneration) must not be the love that is due to God alone (adoration).

“From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God’, to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs…This very special devotion…differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the Incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration.”

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Do you mean that you accept the teaching on faith alone?

I accept the teaching because the Church, which was given authority by Jesus and is infallible on matters of faith and morals thanks to the Holy Spirit, has said that the teaching is true. Whatever rationale they give is really irrelevant if I truly accept them as infallible. Which I do.

 

[mandateman]

I do not believe anything I said in any way invalidates the Churches teaching in any way. It merely clarifies it. It certainly doesnt take away from the idea that God has done all these things out of the goodness of His Heart. When the psalmist said concerning THE WOMAN: “She is like a lily amoungst thorns, amoungst all the daughters.” Didnt he mean that Our Blessed Mother is the flower and all the rest of us are the thorns. God like us accept the thorns for the sake of the beauty of the flower.

You are wrong also when you say that Our Blessed Mother Mary is not perfect. For of all creatures she was not just the best as modern catholics seem to mistakenly understand. She is the perfect creature. No theologian will disagree. Although finite she is perfect as God is perfect but not infinite. Jesus said: “Be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is Perfect.” Our Blessed Lady is just as perfect without stain or blemish or mishapen will as God but she is not divine and so finite. She was sinless and returned by virtue to God exactly perfectly every grace accomplished as it was willed by God.

What else might be understood when Our Blessed Lord said, That the kingdom of heaven was like a man who found a perfect pearl and sold everything else he owned to possess it.

Again my point is as many many saints have declared we may love the Blessed Virgin in a degree called Hyper-dulia (church teaching). Also that outside of worship it is impossible to love her, or be devoted to her too much. She is the key to understanding what attracts God to us.

My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the HUMILITY of His handmaiden,

I capitalized the virtue God finds the most attractive and again the Blessed Virgin practice this virtue perfectly.

When speaking about His Mother Our Blessed Lord said, “More Blessed are they that hear the word of God and do it.” He was still talking about His Mother. This line is the most misunderstood line in the Bible. She hears every word that issues forth from the mouth of God and successfully accomplishes perfectly what is expected of her and perhaps even more. “Her hands are never idle.”

This next proverb requires some meditation it is indicative of the Church and Our Blessed Mother.

PROVERBS 31

Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.

11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.

12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.

13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.

14 She is like the merchants’ ships; she bringeth her food from afar.

15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.

16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.

17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.

This image is of both The Church and Our Blessed Mother clothed in Her Works and Virtues. The perfect daughter to God the Father, The perfect spouse to God the Holy Spirit and the perfect Mother to God the Son.

Just to set the record staright it embarasses me that I have to explain Our Blessed Mother to Catholics all who should spend their lives meditating on Her Perfections. In this there will be no loss. All that she is all her virtue and perfection is from God but she alone of all the creatures of God deserved it due to what she did with the grace received. As many saints have said for us being with God is Heaven but for God being with His Blessed Mother is Heaven.

 

[jtodisco]

(Underlining added for emphasis below is my own)

"Scripture and Tradition never cease to teach and celebrate this fundamental truth: ‘The world was made for the glory of God.’ St. Bonaventure explains that God created all thigns ‘not to increase his glory, but to show it forth and to communicate it’, for God has no other reason for creating than his love and goodness: ‘Creatures came into existence when the key of love opened his hand.’ The First Vatican Council explains:

This one, true God, of his own goodness and ‘almighty power’, not for increasing his own beatitude, nor for attaining his perfection, but in order to manifest this perfection through the benefits which he bestows on creatures, with absolute freedom of counsel ‘and from the beginning of time, made out of nothing both orders of creatures, the spiritual and the corporeal…’

The glory of God consists in the realization of this manifestation and communication of his goodness, for which the world was created. God made us 'to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, for ‘the glory of God is man fully alive; moreover man’s life is the vision of God: if God’s revelation through creation has already obtained life for all the beings that dwell on earth, how much more will the Word’s manifestation of the Father obtain life for those who see God.’ The ultimate purpose of creation is that God 'who is the creator of all things may at last become ‘all in all’, thus simultaneously assuring his own glory and our beatitude.

We believe that God created the world according to his wisdom. It is not the product of any necessity whatever, nor of blind fate or chance. We believe that it proceeds from God’s free will; he wanted to make his creatures share in his being, wisdom, and goodness: ‘For you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.’ Therefore the Psalmist exclaims: ‘O Lord, how manifold are your works! In wisdom you have made them all’; and ‘The Lord is good to all, and his compassion is over all that he has made.’" (CCC 293 - 295)

“God created the world to show forth and communicate his glory. That his creatures should share in his truth, goodness, and beauty – this is the glory for which God created them.” (CCC 319)

"God created everything for man, but man in turn was created to serve and love God and to offer all creation back to him:

What is it that is about to be created, that enjoys such honor? It is man – that great and wonderful living creature, more precious in the eyes of God than all other creatures! For him the heavens and the earth, the sea and all the rest of creation exist. God attached so much importance to his salvation that he did not spare his own Son for the sake of man. Nor does he ever cease to work, trying every possible means, until he has raised man up to himself and made him sit at his right hand." (CCC 358)

Nowhere in the Catechism does it state in any way that God created the universe or mankind for the Blessed Virgin Mary. And as for the love of Mary, again, it is to be distinct from the love that is due to God alone. Yes, Mary is to be venerated. Venerated even above all the other saints and angels, and you are correct that the Church’s term for this veneration is Hyper-dulia. But this is not the same as the love due only to God. Nor is Mary perfect as God is perfect. She is the perfect creature. Key word: creature. God is not a creature, He is the Creator, and is infinitely more perfect than anything He has made.

 

[mandateman]

I have in no way said anywhere that Our Blessed Mother is anything but a creature. You must read what I wrote not what you interpret it to mean and add in things that I specifically note as true. Our Blessed Mother is the perfect creature. My theme is the purpose that God had in being willing to create mankind. This particular creation of which we are a part is only one of an infinite variety of possible creations that God could of created. Why this one?

Nothing quoted here seeks to explain this as evolution does not seek to explain the fact of existance only what happens to matter that exists. My thoughts concern why God chose this particular creation from all the potential ones and what drew Him to it.

All is done by His Will. I reject that God in any way requires or needs anything in creation to manifest His Glory. The Trinity contains all that God needs in infinite perfection including Glory. His manifestation of His Glory to us is also an end but why?

Nothing you have pointed out explains why God made specific choices. I am contending that when God looked out on all the infinite variety of creations and beings that He could create He was attracted to this particular existance because it contained the one and only perfect possible creature that is worthy of the grace of existance. Her perfect nature and HUMILITY drew God to Our Blessed Mother from all eternity and we are the thorns that accompany this flower.

Then God is faced with a second choice does He just create the perfect creature or also the thorns. So what is his purpose in creating the thorns. We offer nothing to God, our praises do not add to His Glory nor does His Goodness in creating us add to His estimation of His own Goodness. Our existance must fulfill a purpose God shows us often He does not waste grace, or power etc. His word goes out and does not return to Him until it is accomplished.

Although we offer nothing to God we can and do add to the experience of Heaven to a creature like Our Blessed Mother. We increase Her Glory, joy, happiness etc so we fulfill a purpose in that way. Because other persons have not tried to explain the small details of God’s purpose and have been satisfied with a general, “for our beatitude.” Why worry about our beatitude when we are only thorns and there is a rose.

If you purchase a rose to share with your beloved, is it for the thorns or the flower you purchase it. Do you purchase the thorns intentionally or accept that their very though ugly existance by contrast add to the beauty of the flower itself. There are theological lessons in flowers, and all around us God calls out His reasons.

Also perfection has nothing to do with infinity. The Blessed Mother is perfect and a creature. The humanity of Christ is also perfect and a creature although as Christ He is God and as such is probably incapable of having His experience of Heaven increased.

Here is a new theme on Christ to debate. Jesus is the life of the Blessed Trinity. In fact I believe it is okay to say Jesus is The Blessed Trinity incarnate.