Mary Is Sinless: 5 Biblical Reasons (New Apologetics Video)

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Tommy999 said:
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Follow up question:
If Jesus is fully God and yet fully man, from whom did he inherit His human nature if not from Mary?
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Obviously Jesus acquired his human nature from his mother Mary, since Joseph wasn’t his real father. But neither was he two persons: one divine and the other human occupying one body. Jesus was one divine person in the flesh - God made man by the Blessed Virgin Mary. God acquired His human attributes through Mary. And since her Son is a divine person, the Catholic Church has designated Mary to be the Mother of God. She conceived and begot God incarnate. The Holy Trinity is a triad of three distinct persons but, nonetheless, an undivided unity in essence and substance. So Mary does not have to conceive all three Persons to be the Mother of God. Still, many Protestants do object by arguing that Mary was the mother of only the human Jesus. But, as I said, his humanity was an attribute of his. Mothers do not conceive and give birth to attributes, but to individual persons. So these objectors are left to decide whether Jesus was a divine person or a human creature. Certainly, our Lord couldn’t be the latter, since he was conceived by the Holy Spirit - not by the seed of Joseph. What logically follows is that by denying Mary her Divine Maternity, one denies the divinity of Christ - unless he really is two persons (the Nestorian heresy) which is an ontological, though not psychological, impossibility, or a man assumed by the Divine Word and adopted by God (the heresy of Adoptionism). Or Jesus was the son of a carpenter who was possessed by the Divine Logos. :eek:

St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, was a disciple of the apostle John. This is how he perceived Jesus to be.

“There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made;** God existing in flesh**; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord."
To the Ephesians, 7 (c. A.D. 110)

What’s impossible for the rational mind to conceive? The Incarnation.



"But why is this honour done me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"
Luke 1, 43

:heaven:
 
Paul was very emphatic about this subject: “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23, emp. added). Paul allowed no exceptions. He wrote that all have sinned. There is no doubt that the word “all” includes Mary. Paul agreed with the psalmist’s inspired assessment of humanity: “There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10; cf. Psalms 14:3; 53:1-3). But if Mary never committed sin, the text should read: “There is none righteous, except Mary.
 
no child bears the iniquity of his or her parents (Ezekiel 18:20). If it were necessary for Mary to have been sinless, in the absolute sense of the word, in order to have a sinless child, then sinlessness also would be required of Mary’s parents, in order to conceive a “sinless” Mary. In turn, all Mary’s ancestors logically would have had to meet the same requirement.
 
dreath said:
Paul was very emphatic about this subject: “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23, emp. added). Paul allowed no exceptions.
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Be careful, dreath. If you really believe this, then you’re going to have to defend the fact that Paul is asserting that Jesus sinned.

Remember, no exceptions.
 
AFAIK, the Eastern Orthodox do not accept the Immaculate conception of Mary, because they say that she was human like the rest of us and had many of the same failings that everyone has because of original sin.
 
dreath said:
no child bears the iniquity of his or her parents (Ezekiel 18:20).
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Logic dictates this to be false.

If your father’s iniquity resulted in the loss of your family fortune, you bear his iniquity.
If it were necessary for Mary to have been sinless, in the absolute sense of the word, in order to have a sinless child, then sinlessness also would be required of Mary’s parents, in order to conceive a “sinless” Mary. In turn, all Mary’s ancestors logically would have had to meet the same requirement.
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No one should be asserting that it was “necessary” for Mary to be sinless.

Only that it was fitting.
 
PRmerger said:
Logic dictates this to be false.

If your father’s iniquity resulted in the loss of your family fortune, you bear his iniquity.

No one should be asserting that it was “necessary” for Mary to be sinless.

Only that it was fitting.
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So you just denied holy scripture !
 
Like every other person ever born, Mary was born without any kind of original sin; (2) like every other person ever born (apart from Jesus Christ), Mary was not exempt from sin and its consequences; and (3) like every other person ever born (apart from Jesus Christ), Mary was in need of a Savior. These biblical facts do not minimize the importance of Mary’s role in fulfilling God’s divine plan to save man. Because of her godly life, God chose this particular young Jewish virgin to bring forth the Messiah. However, she was not sinless. Throughout history, God has used ordinary, imperfect men and women to accomplish extraordinary things, bringing them closer to “perfection” through His Son, Jesus Christ.
 
dreath said:
no child bears the iniquity of his or her parents (Ezekiel 18:20)…
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The translation that I read is “The child will not share the guilt of the parent.”
In my private interpretation and from looking at the context, it seems that the word guilt is used to indicate that if the parent sins, then the child will not be judged guilty of that sin.
“20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.”
 
dreath said:
? huh how so
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You said there’s no exceptions. ALL have sinned.

That would mean that Paul is asserting that Jesus sinned.

And, if you mean NO exceptions, that means that you believe that little babies have sinned, and those with Down syndrome sin…

is that what you wish to profess?
 
ALL sin all all all all all what part of that do you not understand!
 
dreath said:
ALL sin all all all all all what part of that do you not understand!
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Egg-zactly.

So you’re going to have to defend the fact that you say that Scripture says that Jesus was a sinner.

Unless…you want to take the Catholic POV and assert: yes, there are indeed exceptions.

Which one are you going to choose? Jesus sinned? Or there were exceptions.
 
PRmerger said:
Egg-zactly.

So you’re going to have to defend the fact that you say that Scripture says that Jesus was a sinner.

Unless…you want to take the Catholic POV and assert: yes, there are indeed exceptions.

Which one are you going to choose? Jesus sinned? Or there were exceptions.
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Jesus was God, therefore he could not sin!
 
Mary Thought Jesus Was Insane!
(Mark 3:20-35)

Falling short of the glory of God in being a sinner, even includes Mary. A sinner meaning a spiritually lost person. In fact, a little-known and shocking truth about Mary, the Mother of Jesus, is what you are about to be shown from the Scriptures (Mark 3:20-35). Please consider the evidence. It is indeed the message of the word of God. This is what happened, even though Mary is presented much differently, even sinless:
Mark 3:20,21Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.” (Mark 3:20, 21)
Those are extremely important verses to focus in upon for they shockingly declare that Jesus’ natural family thought he was out of his mind, that is, insane! (Who is included in the family will be revealed in verse 31.)
Mark 3:22-31And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebub! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.” So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.” He said this because they were saying, “He has an evil spirit.” Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. (Mark 3:22-31)
 
dreath said:
Jesus was God, therefore he could not sin!
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So…there are exceptions to St. Paul’s verse in Romans.

Not to mention, you agree that there are millions of other exceptions?

Unless your church teaches that little babies sin, and those with Down syndrome sin, and those who are mental deficits and developmental delays sin.

Is that a teaching of your church based on Romans 3:23?
 
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