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MatthewGerardJohn
Guest
Where does it prophesy in the Old Testament, that the Messiah will come from the fruit of David (whatever it is says, haha)? Thanks and God bless!
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Hodos
Guest
The lineage of Christ is reckoned through the line of Joseph, not Mary. We have no contemporary documentation about Mary’s lineage. That being said, I would start here in 2 Samuel 7.
" “Now therefore, thus you shall say to My servant David, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, “I took you from the pasture, from following the sheep, to be ruler over My people Israel. 9 “I have been with you wherever you have gone and have cut off all your enemies from before you; and I will make you a great name, like the names of the great men who are on the earth. 10 “I will also appoint a place for My people Israel and will plant them, that they may live in their own place and not be disturbed again, nor will the wicked afflict them any more as formerly, 11 even from the day that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel; and I will give you rest from all your enemies. The LORD also declares to you that the LORD will make a house for you. 12 “When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 “He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 “I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, 15 but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 “Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever.”’”
" “Now therefore, thus you shall say to My servant David, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, “I took you from the pasture, from following the sheep, to be ruler over My people Israel. 9 “I have been with you wherever you have gone and have cut off all your enemies from before you; and I will make you a great name, like the names of the great men who are on the earth. 10 “I will also appoint a place for My people Israel and will plant them, that they may live in their own place and not be disturbed again, nor will the wicked afflict them any more as formerly, 11 even from the day that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel; and I will give you rest from all your enemies. The LORD also declares to you that the LORD will make a house for you. 12 “When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 “He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 “I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, 15 but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 “Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever.”’”
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Hodos
Guest
This thread is picked up by the Psalmists and Prophets such as in Isaiah 11:
Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
3 And He will delight in the fear of the LORD,
And He will not judge by what His eyes see,
Nor make a decision by what His ears hear;
4 But with righteousness He will judge the poor,
And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth;
And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.
5 Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins,
And faithfulness the belt about His waist.
6 And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7 Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper’s den.
9 They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
As the waters cover the sea.
10 Then in that day
The nations will resort to the root of Jesse,
Who will stand as a signal for the peoples;
And His resting place will be glorious.
Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
3 And He will delight in the fear of the LORD,
And He will not judge by what His eyes see,
Nor make a decision by what His ears hear;
4 But with righteousness He will judge the poor,
And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth;
And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.
5 Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins,
And faithfulness the belt about His waist.
6 And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7 Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper’s den.
9 They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
As the waters cover the sea.
10 Then in that day
The nations will resort to the root of Jesse,
Who will stand as a signal for the peoples;
And His resting place will be glorious.
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Vico
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BartholomewB
Guest
In the New Testament, Paul describes Jesus as a descendant of David “according to the flesh,” but here this “descent” is clearly traced through Joseph, considered to be Jesus’ father for legal purposes in Herodian Judea:
1 Paul, a servant[a] of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures, 3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be Son of God with power according to the spirit[b] of holiness by resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for the sake of his name, 6 including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,
(Rom 1:1-6)
1 Paul, a servant[a] of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures, 3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be Son of God with power according to the spirit[b] of holiness by resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for the sake of his name, 6 including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,
(Rom 1:1-6)
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TK421
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It’s traditionally believed that Mary was likewise a descendant of David (Tertullian, St Jerome, St Ambrose, Pope St Leo the Great, etc) and it does make sense since St Joseph would presumably marry somebody in his own tribe, although the Gospel traces the genealogy through Jesus’ father as this would be customary.
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Lunam_Meam
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Both Joseph and Mary are of the line of David, as is Jesus by blood through Mary.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
And where do we get that from?
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
Really though, since Jesus is Joseph’s son legally, then Jesus is a son of David.
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BartholomewB
Guest
Last month the question of Mary’s ancestry was asked on another thread. It is sometimes said that Mary was probably a Levite, because of her family connection with Elizabeth:
Luke 2:33 Confusion Sacred Scripture
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Vico
Guest
The genealogy in Luke 3:23-38 is thought to be that of Mary although some say also Joseph’s, assuming that Matthan and Matthat (Matt 1:15, Luke 3:24) were the same person and Jacob and Eli were brothers. (Joseph’s father and uncle: Matt 1:16, Luke 3:23)
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BartholomewB
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Thank you, @Vico. Yes, I remember seeing on other threads that some people believe it’s Mary’s genealogy. I hadn’t heard of that theory before. But how do they explain the very first verse of that passage, Luke 3:23? All the manuscript traditions, without exception, have the words, “… was thought (or reputed) to be the son of Joseph.” None of them have “the son of Mary.”
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Vico
Guest
I seem to recall reading that lineage is passed through the father, so it would be presumed that Joseph impregnated Mary. Also I read that one opinion is that Jesus was qualified Messiah through Joseph and also through Mary.
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Aulef
Guest
Eusebius of Cesaria has a good explanation on the apparent discrepancy between St. Joseph’s lineage.
It is in the Book I chapter 7
It is in the Book I chapter 7
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Aulef
Guest
Intermarriage between tribes was prohibited according to the old Law, so if Joseph married Our Lady, it is certain that both were from the tribe of Juda, which increases a lot the probability of both being descendants of King David.
Besides, we have Tradition and the prophecies to back us up
Besides, we have Tradition and the prophecies to back us up
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Vico
Guest
The ban on inter-tribal marriage was lifted on 15th of Av from the time after the conquest and division of Canaan under Joshua (at the time of the Judges).
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Vico
Guest
He suggests that one lineage is by nature and the other by law.
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Aulef
Guest
Exactly (10 chars)
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Aulef
Guest
Could you indicate the passage, please?
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