Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany? Interesting Papias fragment

[Vouthon]

Are they separate individuals? Most scholars now say that there is no concrete evidence to link them, however I am not so sure.

Papias had access to many authentic Sacred Traditions of the Church. Papias was born before AD 70. Yes, the man was actually around at the time of the Apostles! and he died c. AD 155! Incredible.

The work of Papias was thus evidently written around the early second century or late first century. He is considered to be a very important witness to early Christian tradition, by scholars, if not the most important. Sadly his works have only remained in fragments, but this one particularly interests me. Papias preserves a list of ***ALL ***the Marys of the Early Church who were followers of Jesus in the Gospels, so as to avoid confusion. This is thus the earliest and thus most authoritative list of Gospel “Marys”:

**
(1.) Mary the mother of the Lord; (2.) Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphæus, who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus, and of one Joseph; (3.) Mary Salome, wife of Zebedee, mother of John the evangelist and James; (4.) Mary Magdalene. These four are found in the Gospel. James and Judas and Joseph were sons of an aunt (2) of the Lord’s. James also and John were sons of another aunt (3) of the Lord’s. Mary (2), mother of James the Less and Joseph, wife of Alphæus was the sister of Mary the mother of the Lord, whom John names of Cleophas, either from her father or from the family of the clan, or for some other reason. Mary Salome (3) is called Salome either from her husband or her village. Some affirm that she is the same as Mary of Cleophas, because she had two husbands**

Now, who do you notice is missing from this most earliest and comprehensive list of “Gospel Marys”, by a man who had access to such an abudance of authentic oral traditions?

Yes, no mention of Mary of Bethany. Now how could Papias miss out such an important figure who has a prominent position in the Gospel of John and a lesser but still significant position in the Gospel of Luke?

She doesn’t seem to exist at this early stage. Papias lists 4 Gospel Marys, whereas modern scholars and Eastern Christians list 5 - including Mary of Bethany as separate from the Magdalene.

Now could Papias really have forgotten about or omitted such a prominent Christian as Mary of Bethany? I just can’t believe this.

Thoughts?

 

[thistle]

Are they separate individuals? Most scholars now say that there is no concrete evidence to link them, however I am not so sure.

Papias had access to many authentic Sacred Traditions of the Church. Papias was born before AD 70. Yes, the man was actually around at the time of the Apostles! and he died c. AD 155! Incredible.

The work of Papias was thus evidently written around the early second century or late first century. He is considered to be a very important witness to early Christian tradition, by scholars, if not the most important. Sadly his works have only remained in fragments, but this one particularly interests me. Papias preserves a list of ***ALL ***the Marys of the Early Church who were followers of Jesus in the Gospels, so as to avoid confusion. This is thus the earliest and thus most authoritative list of Gospel “Marys”:

Now, who do you notice is missing from this most earliest and comprehensive list of “Gospel Marys”, by a man who had access to such an abudance of authentic oral traditions?

Yes, no mention of Mary of Bethany. Now how could Papias miss out such an important figure who has a prominent position in the Gospel of John and a lesser but still significant position in the Gospel of Luke?

She doesn’t seem to exist at this early stage. Papias lists 4 Gospel Marys, whereas modern scholars and Eastern Christians list 5 - including Mary of Bethany as separate from the Magdalene.

Now could Papias really have forgotten about or omitted such a prominent Christian as Mary of Bethany? I just can’t believe this.

Thoughts?

Mary of Bethany is not Mary Magdalene. She is the sister of Martha and Lazarus.

 

[Vouthon]

Mary of Bethany is not Mary Magdalene. She is the sister of Martha and Lazarus.

In the Gospel of Luke Levi is separate from Matthew, or at least appears to be - but this is clearly not the case Is that not too sweeping a statement?

 

[PodunkMommy]

Hmmmm. It’s always a possibility. Mary Magdalene turned from her sins and then became a follower of Jesus. It’s an interesting thought. I’ve heard it put forth before.

Blessings.

 

[thistle]

In the Gospel of Luke Levi is separate from Matthew, or at least appears to be - but this is clearly not the case Is that not too sweeping a statement?

What is not too sweeping a statement?

 

[MarcoPolo]

\apias had access to many authentic Sacred Traditions of the Church. Papias was born before AD 70. Yes, the man was actually around at the time of the Apostles! and he died c. AD 155! Incredible.

As an aside, is the dating of the fragments known to be 1st-2nd century? In paragraph VIII, it makes mention of the 4th century’s Gregory Theologus.

 

[Vouthon]

Hi Marco!

I will have to check this!

As far as I’m aware its considered to be authentic to Papias.