Mary Magdalene

[spacecadet]

Magdalene would be nifty. She is associated with love and penance and has been credited as the first preacher of the Gospel because she ran to tell the disciples that she had “seen the Lord.” She is the patroness of the Order of Preachers (Dominicans.)

thanks. i would spell it the same as the saint. the idea actually came to me on her feast day when i was in daily mass over a year ago. my child was only 4 months old so i knew it’d be a while, but oddly enoough the name keeps popping up in several places

 

[kim_wilson]

Many Gypsies venerate an unofficial Saint Sara who was supposedly Mary Magdalene’s daughter. Anybody know anything about her?

 

[rtiffany]

thistle:

I have always understood that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute but I recently heard this is not the case. I read through the gospels over the past few days and I can’t see any reference to her being described as a prostitute. Can anyone tell where where in the gospels this is mentioned?

 

[rtiffany]

I am pretty sure there is nothing mentioned about her being a prostitute - it only details her dealing with the demonds and being found in another man’s bed.

I have heard that the church has put out a statement to outlining this - this is what I am looking for.

Good luck
Robert

 

[shannin]

This is a very interesting thread.

The answer then is that there is no written word of her being a prostitute.

I’d be interested in knowing what the official tradition of the Church considers her to have been. Does anyone know the answer?

 

[rtiffany]

I would love to know this as well. The traditional christian opinion is that she was a prostitute, but there has been theory (the conspiracy theory of the ages) that she was from the house of Magdalene - royalty - just as Jashua BinDavid was from the house of David - again, royalty.

Yes, I know this was in the DaVinci Code, but this theory has been out there for Decades before Dan Brown got it to print.

 

[jimmy]

thistle:

I have always understood that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute but I recently heard this is not the case. I read through the gospels over the past few days and I can’t see any reference to her being described as a prostitute. Can anyone tell where where in the gospels this is mentioned?

It is a tradition that the woman with seven demons in Mark and the sinful woman in Luke and Mary who washed Jesus’ feet were all the same woman, Mary Magdalene. This is a pious tradition, but is not dogma. Gregory the Great praises her for her repentance.

 

[jimmy]

thistle:

Thanks Fidelis. Its a really interesting article by Father Saunders. I’m not actually convinced by the arguments because for me the evidence is not even circumstantial. I also didn’t know that there was a view that Mary of Bethany and Mary Magdalene might be the same person. Do you know if Father Saunder’s arguments are those of Pope Gregory the Great or is he putting forward what he thinks might have been Pope Gregory’s arguments. Is it an actual teaching of the Church (i.e. we have to accept it) that Mary Magdalen was a prostitute?
Personally it doesn’t matter to me if she was or was not.
As a Catholic I also reject the anti-catholic and totally untrue assertions that she was the wife of Jesus and movies like the da Vinci code should be banned as blasphemous!

Here is what Gregory the Great said about Mary in Homily 33. The translation may not be the greatest, but it gives the idea. It starts off by quoting Luke7;36-50 then;

in reflection for myself about the repentance of Mary, with much weeping, she poured out more than words can say. Indeed would those tears of this sinful woman not soften even the stony heart by a model of repentant? She has considered in somuch as what she has done, and she was unwilling to control what she might have been doing. While they were eating she entered, she came uncommanded, during the meal and she presented tears. Learn about the pain which is burning, during the meal she is not ashamed to cry. This woman, in truth, whom Luke calls the sinfull woman, John names Mary, that woman we believe to be the Mary from whom seven demons were ejected according to Mark. And what by the seven demons, if not all the vices are denoted? Because the whole time is understood to be with seven days, correctly the whole is formed by a total of seven. Therefore Mary had seven demons, which she was full with the whole vices. But behold because she looked at the taint of her own shame, having to be cleansed she has run to the source of compassion, she was not ashamed while they ate. For since she was deeply ashamed within herself, she understood that nothing outside of herself could embarrass her. For at what should we marvel, brethren, Mary’s coming or the Lord’s receiving her? Receiving or drawing? I say rather, drawing *and *receiving, for certainly he drew in by mercy, that which he received through the door of gentleness.

 

[jimmy]

Here is the latin for that part of the Gregory homily for anyone who wants to check the above translation.

1. Cogitanti mihi de Mariae poenitentia, flere magis libet quam aliquid dicere. Cujus enim vel saxeum pectus illae hujus peccatricis lacrymae ad exemplum poenitendi non emolliant? Consideravit namque quid fecit, et noluit moderari quid faceret. Super convivantes ingressa est, non jussa venit, inter epulas lacrymas obtulit. Discite quo dolore ardet, quae flere et inter epulas non erubescit. Hanc vero quam Lucas peccatricem mulierem, Joannes Mariam nominat, illam esse Mariam credimus de qua Marcus septem daemonia eject fuisse testatur. Et quid per septem daemonia, nisi univera vitia designantur? Quia enim septem diebus omne tempus comprehenditur, recte septenario numero universitas figuratur. Septem ergo daemonia Maria habuit, quae universis vitiis plena fuit. Sed ecce quia turpitudinis suae maculas aspexit, lavanda ad fontem misericordiae cucurrit, convivantes non erubuit. Nam quia semetipsam graviter erubescebat intus, nihil esse credidit quod verecundaretur foris. Quid ergo miramur, fratres, Mariam venientem, an Dominum suscipientem? Suscipientem dicam, an trahentem? dicam melius, trahentem et suscipientem, quia nimirum ipse eam per misericordiam traxit intus, qui per mansuetudinem suscepit foris. Sed jam textum sancti Evangelii percurrentes, ipsum quoque ordinem quo venerit sananda, videamus.

 

[rtiffany]

jimmy:

Here is what Gregory the Great said about Mary in Homily 33. The translation may not be the greatest, but it gives the idea. It starts off by quoting Luke7;36-50 then;

in reflection for myself about the repentance of Mary, with much weeping, she poured out more than words can say. Indeed would those tears of this sinful woman not soften even the stony heart by a model of repentant? She has considered in somuch as what she has done, and she was unwilling to control what she might have been doing. While they were eating she entered, she came uncommanded, during the meal and she presented tears. Learn about the pain which is burning, during the meal she is not ashamed to cry. This woman, in truth, whom Luke calls the sinfull woman, John names Mary, that woman we believe to be the Mary from whom seven demons were ejected according to Mark. And what by the seven demons, if not all the vices are denoted? Because the whole time is understood to be with seven days, correctly the whole is formed by a total of seven. Therefore Mary had seven demons, which she was full with the whole vices. But behold because she looked at the taint of her own shame, having to be cleansed she has run to the source of compassion, she was not ashamed while they ate. For since she was deeply ashamed within herself, she understood that nothing outside of herself could embarrass her. For at what should we marvel, brethren, Mary’s coming or the Lord’s receiving her? Receiving or drawing? I say rather, drawing *and *receiving, for certainly he drew in by mercy, that which he received through the door of gentleness.

This really says nothing about who Mary was or that the church deemed her a prostitue??? This sounds more like she was having her period

 

[jimmy]

rtiffany:

This really says nothing about who Mary was or that the church deemed her a prostitue??? This sounds more like she was having her period

The point that Gregory was making was that she was repentant of her sins and she was unashamed to approach Christ for forgiveness. It says a lot about who Mary was. Gregory is praising her for her repentance. It mentions that the woman of seven demons is the same woman who wiped the feet of Jesus and that it was Mary Magdalene. He relates the seven demons to the capital sins; pride, greed, glutony, envy, lust, sloth, and wrath. He finishes with the question of what is to be praised her repentance or Jesus’ calling her to forgiveness.

 

[rtiffany]

Jimmy - great stuff! This is the type of information I am looking for. Who started the whole rhumor thing that Mary was a prostitute and why? Some of the popular beliefs are that the roman church (hard core catholic at the time) needed to ruin her reputation to help destroy Joshua … I have also heard (about 15 years ago) that Mary may have actually been from a wealthy family - possibly royal???

I would love to know.

Thanks again

 

[dancus]

Fidelis:

Perhaps this short article by Fr. William Saunders will help. He is answering a question almost identical to yours:

catholicherald.com/saunders/03ws/ws030828.htm

Thank you very much for your FYI. I can’t recall ever coming across the gentlemans name in my research. I’ll make a point of checking him out. Again Thanx. Dan

 

[sara888]

**Well said Jimmy.!

Sara**

 

[dafalax]

The reason Mary Magdalene was thought to be a prostitute (and i’m not sure if the above posted link addresses this) was because when she came to Jesus to anoint his feet, she came with head uncovered, which was a common punishment for women who committed unchastity. She then dried his feet with her (uncovered) hair. It may be circumstantial, but it does make a good deal of sense. Also, while the prostitute label may be unflattering, many people focus far too much on that instead of how God transformed her into a saint with His love. She was called the Apostle to the Apostles. Jesus first appeared to her after He was risen. We are all sinners, and focusing on her scandalous sins is unproductive and immature. How far she rose after being so low is a testament to God’s greatness, not fodder for wagging tongues.

 

[dancus]

shannin:

This is a very interesting thread.

The answer then is that there is no written word of her being a prostitute.

I’d be interested in knowing what the official tradition of the Church considers her to have been. Does anyone know the answer?

More importantly no one seems to know who she was. The church has her as three people in one. The woman with the jar who annointed Christs feet. The woman with the seven demons and Mary of Bethany. The Greek Church lists them as three distinct persons. To farther complicate matters, Christian theologians accept the first two in agreement with the Church. However no ones going to shove Mary of Bethany down their throats.

Now the prostitute charge, Magdala is a Talmudic expression, ‘Curling womens hair,’ denoting an Adultress. I hasten add Magdala also means hill or fortress. Dan

 

[jimmy]

rtiffany:

Jimmy - great stuff! This is the type of information I am looking for. Who started the whole rhumor thing that Mary was a prostitute and why? Some of the popular beliefs are that the roman church (hard core catholic at the time) needed to ruin her reputation to help destroy Joshua … I have also heard (about 15 years ago) that Mary may have actually been from a wealthy family - possibly royal???

I would love to know.

Thanks again

The Catholic Church and its members have not destroyed her reputation. Gregory did not destroy her memory. John, in his gospel, when Jesus goes to raise Lazuarus from the dead declares that Mary, the sister of Martha, was the woman who wiped the feet of Jesus with her hair. You can see that this Mary is considered a great sinner from looking at Luke 7 when the pharisees look at her wiping His feet and think, “if he is a prophet then he would know what kind of woman this is.” It is perfectly resonable to consider this Mary to be Mary Magdalene.

Further, how is it destroying her reptuation? She repented, how does that destroy her reputation? If anyone says they have no sin they are a lier. No matter how great of a sinner she was, she became a great saint. It is a testament to her great faith that she went from nothing to something great. Peter denied Christ three times, yet he is considered as one of the greatest of the saints of the Church. Thomas doubted, yet he is a great saint. Francis of Assissi was a partier, yet he is one of the greatest of saints since the apostles. Augustine was a great sinner and became a great saint. Those who say that Mary was a great sinner exault her for her repentance. She went from the greatest depths to the heavens.

The Roman Church is still hard core Catholic and will remain hard core Catholic.

 

[jimmy]

dafalax:

The reason Mary Magdalene was thought to be a prostitute (and i’m not sure if the above posted link addresses this) was because when she came to Jesus to anoint his feet, she came with head uncovered, which was a common punishment for women who committed unchastity. She then dried his feet with her (uncovered) hair. It may be circumstantial, but it does make a good deal of sense. Also, while the prostitute label may be unflattering, many people focus far too much on that instead of how God transformed her into a saint with His love. She was called the Apostle to the Apostles. Jesus first appeared to her after He was risen. We are all sinners, and focusing on her scandalous sins is unproductive and immature. How far she rose after being so low is a testament to God’s greatness, not fodder for wagging tongues.

Consider how much faith it takes to walk up to a man and kneel down on the ground and begin wiping his feet with your hair. She had such great faith. It is not a degradation of her.

I have a question for anyone who believes it is a destruction of her reputation; Who recieved the party when the prodigal son returned, the son who returned or the son who remained? Christ says there will be more rejoicing for the saving of one of those sheep which were lost than for all those who were not lost. Christ tells the parable of the sheperd who went searching for the one sheep that was lost. The parable of the woman that lost the coin and when she found it she threw a party and said, “lets rejoice, what was lost is found.”

 

[jimmy]

dancus:

More importantly no one seems to know who she was. The church has her as three people in one. The woman with the jar who annointed Christs feet. The woman with the seven demons and Mary of Bethany. The Greek Church lists them as three distinct persons. To farther complicate matters, Christian theologians accept the first two in agreement with the Church. However no ones going to shove Mary of Bethany down their throats.

Now the prostitute charge, Magdala is a Talmudic expression, ‘Curling womens hair,’ denoting an Adultress. I hasten add Magdala also means hill or fortress. Dan

It is tough to not relate Mary of bethany to the woman who anointed the feet of Jesus considering that John10 specifically says it was her

2 (And Mary was she that anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair: whose brother Lazarus was sick.)

 

[Genesis315]

rtiffany:

Some of the popular beliefs are that the roman church (hard core catholic at the time) needed to ruin her reputation to help destroy Joshua … I have also heard (about 15 years ago) that Mary may have actually been from a wealthy family - possibly royal???

I hate to tell you, but the Church still is hardcore Catholic. What was that supposed to mean???

Anyway, her reputation is not destroyed by this story, but rather exalted. Her sinful past is what makes her one of the greatest saints.

The prostitute stuff also comes from her name Mary Magdalene (aka Mary of Magdala). Magdala housed a military encampment and so many prostitutes lived there.