Mary Mediatrix of all Grace?

[Madia]

If/when Mary Mediatrix of all Grace becomes a dogma, what Scripture verses will help back it up? It seems to me that Luke 1:41 is one such verse since Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and the infant leaped in her womb when she heard Mary’s salutation. Can anyone else think of any other verses?

 

[LatinCat]

The idea is basiclly this. All graces come from Jesus Christ and Christ came to us through Mary, so in a sense all graces come indirectly through (not from) Mary.

 

[whosebob]

Madia:

If/when Mary Mediatrix of all Grace becomes a dogma

JMJ + OBT​

For those who are unaware of this fact, I would like to point out that the Second Vatican Council applied the title “mediatrix” to the Blessed Virgin Mary in the document Lumen Gentium (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church):

62. This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until The eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.

For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.

The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary. It knows it through unfailing experience of it and commends it to the hearts of the faithful, so that encouraged by this maternal help they may the more intimately adhere to the Mediator and Redeemer.

63. By reason of the gift and role of divine maternity, by which she is united with her Son, the Redeemer, and with His singular graces and functions, the Blessed Virgin is also intimately united with the Church. As St. Ambrose taught, the Mother of God is a type of the Church in the order of faith, charity and perfect union with Christ. For in the mystery of the Church, which is itself rightly called mother and virgin, the Blessed Virgin stands out in eminent and singular fashion as exemplar both of virgin and mother. By her belief and obedience, not knowing man but overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, as the new Eve she brought forth on earth the very Son of the Father, showing an undefiled faith, not in the word of the ancient serpent, but in that of God’s messenger. The Son whom she brought forth is He whom God placed as the first-born among many brethren, namely the faithful, in whose birth and education she cooperates with a maternal love.

[emphasis mine]

The point is that this title is not an “optional” one that a Catholic may freely choose to disagree with (whatever that would entail).

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA

 

[asteroid]

LatinCat:

The idea is basiclly this. All graces come from Jesus Christ and Christ came to us through Mary, so in a sense all graces come indirectly through (not from) Mary.

Are there any other cases in which someone gives us a gift and we run off and thank their mother? If my wife gives me a present I don’t thank her mother and say that the gift came in some way through her since she gave birth to and raised my wife.

Grace comes through Jesus.

Grace does not come through Mary.

Giving birth to someone does not mean that everything they subsequently give actually comes indirectly through you.

I don’t understand why we as Catholics have to say that what a (grown-up, eternal, fully God) child gives comes indirectly from the mother.

 

[Dorothy]

<<I don’t understand why we as Catholics have to say that what a (grown-up, eternal, fully God) child gives comes indirectly from the mother.>>

I think the point is that Mary had free will and said yes to the Archangel Gabriel. And, she cooperated fully with the grace of God all her life.

 

[estesbob]

JMJ + OBT​

For those who are unaware of this fact, I would like to point out that the Second Vatican Council applied the title “mediatrix” to the Blessed Virgin Mary in the document Lumen Gentium (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church):

[emphasis mine]

The point is that this title is not an “optional” one that a Catholic may freely choose to disagree with (whatever that would entail).

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA

Of course it doeant call her “Mediatrix of all grace”. As to the intial question its not going to happen, there are no inidcations the Church is even consideing this. Lots of smoke but no fire.

HOWEVER if the Church did declare this as doctrine I, as a Catholic, would have to accept it regarless of whether one could back it up with Scripture or not. we are not a Church that adheres to “Sola Scriptura”.

 

[Budd]

Hi Asteroid, I like your line of thought.

I am having a great deal of trouble with alot of what I’m seeing and hearing in regard to the Blessed Mother. Protestants accuse us of worshiping her and we give them a latin translation of the word worship. I speak english as do the vast majority of the folks in this country. We are to worship God and God alone. We as catholics don’t believe in the doctrine of scripture alone, but isn’t it interesting that we can justify all of our beliefs with scripture until we get to Mary? I have a very special place in my heart for Christ’s mother because she heard the Word of God and did it. This is what Jesus said made her special, Lk 11:27-28. I pray that she along with all the saints pray for all of us to Jesus the Christ in whom all of our hope rest. Happy Thanksgiving to all, Budd

 

[Latin_Catholic_1]

I do believe Mary is Mediatrix of All Graces.

Why?

Because the Source of all graces is the Cross, and Mary was just near the Cross at the time of mankind’s Redemption.

You may ask: that’s true, but wasn’t John and others around as well?

Yes, but only Mary has a “biblical suffering” that is somehow linked to that of Christ: Lk. 2,34-35.

Mary seems to be linked in a unique way to God’s redemptive plan for mankind.

Bottomline is: all Graces come from the Cross and enter mankind through Mary, and so the Virgin Mary is Mediatrix of All Graces in an eschatological way.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Madia:

If/when Mary Mediatrix of all Grace becomes a dogma, what Scripture verses will help back it up? It seems to me that Luke 1:41 is one such verse since Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and the infant leaped in her womb when she heard Mary’s salutation. Can anyone else think of any other verses?

I suspect that the verses to be used will be those which support the idea that Mary is the Mother of Christians: John 19:26-27 and Revelation 12:17. As mother, not only has God blessed Mary with “that pure womb which regenerates men unto God” (St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 4, Chapter 33, paragraph 11) but God has also blessed Mary with those breasts which provide (mediate to) her children with all the spiritual milk (graces) they need.

 

[allisonP]

I have to say that this makes sense to me, a non catholic.
I am able , so far to understand everything I am learning about the catholic church, but the adoration of Mary is too close to worship for me to feel comfortable with it.
I just came from visiting family in another state and there is a catholic church there with a GIANT gold statue of Mary right on top of and in front of their church.This things has got to be ten feet tall!
Now how can that be anything but a church of mary. At least to these noncatholic eyes of mine?

Budd:

Hi Asteroid, I like your line of thought.

I am having a great deal of trouble with alot of what I’m seeing and hearing in regard to the Blessed Mother. Protestants accuse us of worshiping her and we give them a latin translation of the word worship. I speak english as do the vast majority of the folks in this country. We are to worship God and God alone. We as catholics don’t believe in the doctrine of scripture alone, but isn’t it interesting that we can justify all of our beliefs with scripture until we get to Mary? I have a very special place in my heart for Christ’s mother because she heard the Word of God and did it. This is what Jesus said made her special, Lk 11:27-28. I pray that she along with all the saints pray for all of us to Jesus the Christ in whom all of our hope rest. Happy Thanksgiving to all, Budd

 

[mlchance]

All Marian doctrines express something that must be believed about Jesus Christ. Mary is the fount of all graces because all graces came to us from Jesus Christ through her obedience to the will of God by agreeing to be the Mother of God.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[MariaG]

Budd:

Hi Asteroid, I like your line of thought.

I am having a great deal of trouble with alot of what I’m seeing and hearing in regard to the Blessed Mother. Protestants accuse us of worshiping her and we give them a latin translation of the word worship. I speak english as do the vast majority of the folks in this country. We are to worship God and God alone. We as catholics don’t believe in the doctrine of scripture alone,** but isn’t it interesting that we can justify all of our beliefs with scripture until we get to Mary? I** have a very special place in my heart for Christ’s mother because she heard the Word of God and did it. This is what Jesus said made her special, Lk 11:27-28. I pray that she along with all the saints pray for all of us to Jesus the Christ in whom all of our hope rest. Happy Thanksgiving to all, Budd

There have been several proposed Scriptures to support this title listed here.

Which beliefs about Mary have not one implicit verse?

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Latin_Catholic_1]

allisonP:

I have to say that this makes sense to me, a non catholic.
I am able , so far to understand everything I am learning about the catholic church, but the adoration of Mary is too close to worship for me to feel comfortable with it.
I just came from visiting family in another state and there is a catholic church there with a GIANT gold statue of Mary right on top of and in front of their church.This things has got to be ten feet tall!
Now how can that be anything but a church of mary. At least to these noncatholic eyes of mine?

Dear allison P:

I know of a great source to learn more about the Virgin Mary, Mother of all christians:

marypages.com

It’s an awesome site!

 

[Todd_Easton]

allisonP:

I have to say that this makes sense to me, a non catholic.
I am able , so far to understand everything I am learning about the catholic church, but the adoration of Mary is too close to worship for me to feel comfortable with it.
I just came from visiting family in another state and there is a catholic church there with a GIANT gold statue of Mary right on top of and in front of their church.This things has got to be ten feet tall!
Now how can that be anything but a church of mary. At least to these noncatholic eyes of mine?

Lighten up, the two gold-covered angel statues in Solomon’s Temple were each 15 feet tall and God didn’t have a problem with them. (1 Kings 6:23-28)

St. Paul told us to “remember”, “honor”, and “give recognition to” faithful Christians. (Hebrews 13:7; Philippians 2:29; 1 Corinthians 16:18) Erecting statues of great Christians, such as Mary, is simply one of the many ways Catholics obey these commands of St. Paul. This is like our country’s practice of erecting statues of great American heroes, such as the 19-foot-tall statue of Thomas Jefferson in the Jefferson Memorial.

If a 10-foot-tall statue of Mary bothers you, it should bring you some comfort knowing that the Catholic Church also has a 98-foot-tall statue of Jesus, Christ the Redeemer, down in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

 

[allisonP]

First let me say I am not attacking your beliefs. Just trying to understand.
Now another question if you will?

When it is said that all grace comes through Mary because she obeyed God. Is it to be understood then that we would not have Jesus if not for her obedience?
That God would not have fullfilled scripture if she had not obeyed?
Or is it that she was created knowing she would be used for this purpose and thus the prophesy would be fullfilled?
Like predestination. Something else I know little about!

Oh,about the statue…I think I understand that it was to honor her.
It just seemed so overwhelming. I am not used to that I suppose. I am still trying to grasp that there are “people” ,christians, praying for me in heaven!

 

[Latin_Catholic_1]

allisonP:

Is it to be understood then that we would not have Jesus if not for her obedience?
That God would not have fullfilled scripture if she had not obeyed?

That is correct.

God respects our free will.

He won’t save against our own will.

Mary is the new Eve; She was born sinless so She could freely choose between redemption (life with God) and damnation (life without God).

None of us born with original sin have enough strength to choose for ourselves redemption (because we lean to sin) so that’s why God created Mary as sinless, like Adam and Eve were, so She could truly & freely choose redemption (like Adam & Eve freely choose to sin; to disobey God).

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

allisonP:

I have to say that this makes sense to me, a non catholic.
I am able , so far to understand everything I am learning about the catholic church, but the adoration of Mary is too close to worship for me to feel comfortable with it.
I just came from visiting family in another state and there is a catholic church there with a GIANT gold statue of Mary right on top of and in front of their church.This things has got to be ten feet tall!
Now how can that be anything but a church of mary. At least to these noncatholic eyes of mine?

Hey all,

Adoration is for God alone, veneration is for Mary. You must understand that salvation, indirectly comes from Mary, and saying this would not be heretical. She, thru her own free will, said “Yes!” to God, thereby allowing Jesus Christ to come in human form. She was chosen out of all women, and was the only one able to complete the task of perfectly uniting her will to the will of God by trusting perfectly in Him (thereby also becoming the first Christian). Also, the statue of Mary is outside correct? Guess what’s inside: Jesus Christ in the Eucharist!

God bless,

 

[Dorothy]

Semper Fi,

<< Also, the statue of Mary is outside correct? Guess what’s inside: Jesus Christ in the Eucharist!>>

Alleluia!

 

[Dorothy]

Allison,

<< I am still trying to grasp that there are “people” ,christians, praying for me in heaven!>>

The members of the Body of Christ are not separated by death. We call those who have gone to the Lord the “Church Triumphant”. Those who are being purified the “Church Suffering”, and those who alive on earth the “Church Militant.”

We are all part of the Body of Christ.

 

[shannin]

Madia:

If/when Mary Mediatrix of all Grace becomes a dogma, what Scripture verses will help back it up? It seems to me that Luke 1:41 is one such verse since Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and the infant leaped in her womb when she heard Mary’s salutation. Can anyone else think of any other verses?

Oh how I wish I was better at quoting exact Bible verses.

There was a good explanation of this last night on EWTN, The Abundant Life, with Jonette Benkowick (sp) and Rosaland Moss. I wish every Protestant would have seen it.

When the Angel appeared to Mary he said “Hail, full of Grace”. He did not say “Hail Mary, full of Grace”, her name was added later by the Church for our Hail Mary Prayer. When he called her “full of Grace”, that meant that God had bestowed His grace upon her in order for her to bring our Savior into this world. She had to be full of grace, pure and sinless in order to carry Jesus.

It’s true that we all sin. God saves us all, even Mary. The only difference is that God saved Mary “before she sinned” and filled her with grace in order for her to bring our Savior, Jesus, into the world to give us life. Then He gave her to us to be our Mother when on the cross he said, “Woman, behold your son and Son, behold your Mother”.

At the wedding feast he referred to Mary as “woman”. Jesus wasn’t being disrespectful when he called her “woman”. Mary is the new Eve. God called Eve “woman” and that is exactly what Jesus called Mary at the wedding feast and when he was on the cross.