Mary Mediatrix of grace?

[DeoJuventute]

What does it mean when we say that Mary is “mediatrix of grace?” Does that mean that we can pray for her to personally help us be more loving, chaste, holy, etc., rather than just asking her to pray on our behalf?

I’ve always understood that we can pray for the saints’ intercession, but that they cannot do anything for us independently. But is it the same with Mary, or does she have more “power,” so to speak, to help us?

 

[philial]

Simple logic: In the first instance, Mary is the Mother of Jesus, Mother of God. Since it is Jesus Himself who is the source of all graces, so, in the economy of our salvation, she is the mother - or mediatrix - of All Graces.

secondarily, John was the disciple whom Jesus loved. When He was on the cross Jesus present john with Mary that John might care for her. But, more than that, we see it as symbolising the presenting of all christians to cherish the Holy Mother, and receive her as our mother too.

Since Mary is our Mother, it stands to reason that she holds us in maternal love.

Thirdly, at the wedding feast in Cana, we see the petitioning of Mary resulting in Jesus’ first miracle. In spite of attempts to suggest that Jesus was dismissive of His mother (some say the term ‘woman’ was thus. In fact it echoes the words of Adam when he first sees Eve. Thus Mary is the New Eve). However, this is nonsense since it results in a wonderful work that was deep in practical kindness (to save the groom from shame), and rich in symbolism.

Finally, the saints - and that includes us who are ‘in hope’ - are the body of Christ. We are part of the second person of the Trinty, Child of the father. The saints share in the fullness of Christ, the source of all graces, so, it stands to reason that they are able to share those graces with us here on earth. And of them all Mary is the One who has been hailed as ‘full of grace’. That grace is hers to give as she will.

in fact, that last remark is a better answer than all that preceeds it!

Add all this together

 

[Ben_F]

I tell Mary that I´m sorry for offending her, by offending her son. I ask her for her mercy. Is this stretching it? I don´t think so. God bless:thumbsup:

 

[garysibio]

I didn’t want to start a new thread for this question because it springs from the topic of this thread. I hope no one objects,

First, I am not trying to deny that we can ask Mary to pray for us. I have no problem with this at all. However, much of the support for this belief is rooted in the request made of Mary at the wedding at Cana. There are many more time in the gospels when people went directly to Jesus to ask for healing or some other miracle. It seems to me that Catholics, in their desire to defend Mary’s role as intercessor, tend to ignore this and emphasize John 2, the one time the gospels record Mary being asked. Does this bother anyone but me? If not, why not?

 

[Della]

I didn’t want to start a new thread for this question because it springs from the topic of this thread. I hope no one objects,

First, I am not trying to deny that we can ask Mary to pray for us. I have no problem with this at all. However, much of the support for this belief is rooted in the request made of Mary at the wedding at Cana. There are many more time in the gospels when people went directly to Jesus to ask for healing or some other miracle. It seems to me that Catholics, in their desire to defend Mary’s role as intercessor, tend to ignore this and emphasize John 2, the one time the gospels record Mary being asked. Does this bother anyone but me? If not, why not?

The wedding at Cana story is not, of course, the basis for asking for Mary’s intercession and heavenly aid. It is merely a witness to the fact. Of course people went directly to Jesus and we still can and do. That’s not the point, really. There’s no rivalry between Jesus and Mary, after all. No angel in heaven has the job of keeping score as to which one gets the most prayers and requests for help.

No. Mary can and should be asked for her intercession and help because she is the first of all saints who is the closest to Jesus of all the saints and she has been perfected in God’s love. When we go to her with our petitions, we go to one who has our best interest at heart as well as her Son’s. She brings our requests before God cleansed of all self-interest, with the clear understanding that all she asks is in conformity with God’s will–not contrary to God’s will, might be the better way of putting it. We on our own may have all sorts of ulterior motives, which we may not even be able to admit to ourselves. When we ask for Mary’s intercession and aid it should be with the understanding that she will not ask whatever is contrary to the laws of God and that she will ask properly and with thanksgiving, acknowledging that “God has done great things for me” and for us all.

 

[philial]

I didn’t want to start a new thread for this question because it springs from the topic of this thread. I hope no one objects,

First, I am not trying to deny that we can ask Mary to pray for us. I have no problem with this at all. However, much of the support for this belief is rooted in the request made of Mary at the wedding at Cana. There are many more time in the gospels when people went directly to Jesus to ask for healing or some other miracle. It seems to me that Catholics, in their desire to defend Mary’s role as intercessor, tend to ignore this and emphasize John 2, the one time the gospels record Mary being asked. Does this bother anyone but me? If not, why not?

You pays your money, you makes your choice.

But you should rresearch the wedding feast story more - ask why John presented it as he did, and how it was prefigured in the court of Soloman (and his mother!), which was viewed as an earthly pre-figuring of the Heavenly Court. Then draw conclusions!

 

[garysibio]

You pays your money, you makes your choice.

But you should rresearch the wedding feast story more - ask why John presented it as he did, and how it was prefigured in the court of Soloman (and his mother!), which was viewed as an earthly pre-figuring of the Heavenly Court. Then draw conclusions!

How does any of this alter the fact that the number of times Jesus went directly to Jesus with their requests outnumbers the one time they went to Mary?

 

[TimothyH]

I didn’t want to start a new thread for this question because it springs from the topic of this thread. I hope no one objects,

First, I am not trying to deny that we can ask Mary to pray for us. I have no problem with this at all. However, much of the support for this belief is rooted in the request made of Mary at the wedding at Cana. There are many more time in the gospels when people went directly to Jesus to ask for healing or some other miracle. It seems to me that Catholics, in their desire to defend Mary’s role as intercessor, tend to ignore this and emphasize John 2, the one time the gospels record Mary being asked. Does this bother anyone but me? If not, why not?

It doesn’t bother me in the slightest that people went directly to Jesus for healing or miracles because I know that Jesus came into the world through Mary and as such, those miracles and healing happend through Mary.

Consider Jesus’ first miracle. It was not the miracle of nature - turninng water into wine - which occured at the wedding feast. As the incarnate Word of God on earth, Jesus’ first miracle was a miracle of grace - the sanctification of John the Baptist - who was still in Elizabeth’s womb. Jesus acomplished the sanctification of John the Baptist through Mary who spoke the words causing John the Baptist to leap for joy.

This is but an example of how the grace won for us by Jesus Christ flows to us exclusively through Mary. Whether you know it or not, your own sanctification and hence your entry into heaven is similarly through Mary. Don’t let Mary’s perfect humility fool you into thinking that because she preferrs not to be known, that she has no role to play in your salvation. All grace flows to you through Mary because Jesus Christ - grace himself - comes into the world through Mary. Remember that when the Second Person of the Triinity was a human child, he was not only obedient to Mary (cf. Luke 2:51), but dependent upon her. This was no accident. God could have come to us in any form he wished, but he chose to come to us through Mary, chose to be obedient to Mary, and chose to be dependent upon Mary. He still is.

As to prayer, Mary’s will is perfectly conformed to the will of God. Since our will is not perfectly conormed to God’s will, we have to use the qualifier “if it be your will” with every prayer. Not so Mary. Mary does not pray for anything which is not God’s will nor does God not grant her anything for which she prays becuase her prayer is always in conformity with the will of God.

-Tim-

 

[philial]

How does any of this alter the fact that the number of times Jesus went directly to Jesus with their requests outnumbers the one time they went to Mary?

The Church justifies her understanding of Mary partly by the examples given. It’s not a numbers game, as if Mary & Her son were in competition!

Look, if you wish to cling to reasons for dismissing the full role of Mary, you dont need to engage in discussion to do so. If you do engage in discussion, at the very least you should conceed the reasonable basis presented, however slender you may think it.

Either way, I see little to be gained for you by pushing a tired, old post-reformation agenda… here, of all places!

 

[Della]

How does any of this alter the fact that the number of times Jesus went directly to Jesus with their requests outnumbers the one time they went to Mary?

Mary’s role as intercessor was not fully established while she was alive on earth. People naturally went to the one who was healing people to ask him for favors. Mary’s part was to be supportive of his ministry, as it still is. It was only after Mary’s dormitition that the practice of asking for her intercession came about, and that was from the teaching of Jesus himself who said quite clearly about the state those who have passed from this life:

Mt. 22:32 “`I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Those who are in heaven with God are able to aid those of us who are still here, living our mortals lives. The Church has taught this from the beginning. Mary’s role was developed from this teaching and others.

As I stated in my other post. There is no competition between Jesus and Mary for prayers. And the Church does not mandate that we ask for Mary’s or any other saint’s intercession/aid. But, we are to believe that Mary can and does hear our prayers and is able to act as God’s agent in answering them.

 

[JM3]

What does it mean when we say that Mary is “mediatrix of grace?” Does that mean that we can pray for her to personally help us be more loving, chaste, holy, etc., rather than just asking her to pray on our behalf?

I’ve always understood that we can pray for the saints’ intercession, but that they cannot do anything for us independently. But is it the same with Mary, or does she have more “power,” so to speak, to help us?

Suggested reading.

archive.org/details/thegloriesofmary00liguuoft

 

[egnubo]

**Look at it from the point of view of Maternal Mediation of Mary
**

**First, it is an exercise of her Motherhood
**1. Mary conceived and played a role in every part of Christ’s life. These actions derive from her physical, affective and supernatural intimacy with Jesus
a. Mary cooperated in an entirely unique and singular way in the salvation of mankind
2. As spiritual mother, Mary carries out her maternal role by interceding with her Son on behalf of all human beings by granting us graces necessary for our spiritual regeneration and eternal salvation
a. Christians have been conscious of this from the beginning and venerate her by prayers, hymns and devotions
*

Second, let us understand the meaning of Mediator/Mediatrix

1. Definition: One who tries to get two or more people to agree with each other or get them to agree again
2. Qualities of a Mediator
   a. To be in the middle between two extremes (ontological mediation)
   b. The office of uniting two extremes
   c. The mediator shares something in common with both and also differs from both.
3. The term cannot be applied to one who not does perform the action of uniting

**Third, let us look at the connection between Christ’s mediation and Mary’s analogous mediation
**1. Acquisition of grace by means of redemption. This is objective redemption going from the incarnation to the Death and glorification
a. Distribution of grace to people: This is subjective redemption because it is the application of the objective to each individual
2. Mary’s analogous mediation
a. Her cooperation in he redemptive work of her son. This is true mediation because Mary unites two extremes, making it possible for the Son to assume a human nature in her womb. (Socia Christi, Co-redemptrix, Intercessor)
b. The dispensing of graces; her cooperation in the application of the Redemption to each human being (Mediatrix, Advocate, auxiliatrix)
*
*

I hope the above is clear enough.

 

[Della]

An example from the apparition of Mary to St. Catherine Laboure, fully approved by the Church, gives us a concrete example of Mary’s authority to act for God:

At first Mary appeared standing on a globe and dressed in white having with a long white veil which fell to her feet. The Virgin held in her hands, at the height of her shoulders, a golden ball which she seemed to be offering to God as she raised her eyes to heaven. Her fingers were covered with rings whose precious jewels sparkled brilliantly and showered down innumerable rays of light on the globe beneath her feet, almost obscuring the view of her feet. Mary lowered her eyes and looked directly at Catherine. Mary said nothing, but Catherine heard this message, "The ball which you see represents the world, especially France, and each person in particular. These rays symbolize the graces I shed upon those who ask for them. The jewels which give no rays symbolize the graces that are not given because they are not asked for."

The first bolded sentence shows Mary as intercessor for France and the world. And the second demonstrates Mary’s ablitity to impart God’s graces to us through the power of the Holy Spirit. No human agent acts on his own when God uses him/her as the conduit of his graces. When the priest anoints with oil and prays for the sick and the dying, he is able to impart God’s graces, not because he is divine, but because he has been given the authority and the charism to do so. The same with Mary–God has given her the charism of intercessor and helper of all men–to act in the interest of God for the benefit of us fallen human beings.