Mary Mediatrix

[TantumErgo90]

I am reading an article about Mary being Mediatrix and the author quoted a Father Apollonio where he says

With the participation of others there remains but one mediation, as the thought and love of Christ remain perfect, no matter how many share his thoughts and affection; but there are many persons active in that mediation according to a certain order in relation to Christ, the one Mediator. This is true of Mary in a unique and non-repeatable way because of her fullness of grace in view of the divine and spiritual maternity … Christ’s one mediation would not be perfect unless he could so save one of his members so as to cooperate actively in the work of salvation of all others, viz., as maternal Mediatrix (18).

The author then says

Here we see how Mary’s mediation is necessary, but still subordinate. Christ’s mediation is the perfect mediation yet without Mary’s mediation, according to Fr. Apollonio it would not reach perfection.

My emphasis added in both. Please explain this to me. To me it’s all greek.

 

[Hesychios]

I am reading an article about Mary being Mediatrix and the author quoted a Father Apollonio where he says The author then says

                           Here we see how Mary's mediation is necessary, but still subordinate.  Christ's mediation is the perfect mediation **yet without Mary's mediation**

Not Greek, that’s for sure!

It sounds self contradictory. Even dangerous.

 

[Chipper]

I am reading an article about Mary being Mediatrix and the author quoted a Father Apollonio where he says The author then says My emphasis added in both. Please explain this to me. To me it’s all greek.

Hi Tantum. If I don’t understand your question then please don’t be to hard on me.

I think it has a lot to do with the following in my words.
Colossians 1:24
“Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions.”

I think the question is “what could possibly be lacking with the afflictions of Christ”. The thought that I have is that he is only lacking our participation. Not to say that he “MUST” have our participation, but rather he desires our participation. Once his “Lacking” is completed then it becomes perfected.

This is how I relate Mary Co-Mediatrix to my understaning of this theology. She is an ultimate sufferer, the one who’s heart was pierced with a sword, she paid a great price. Suffered along with Christ and Christs afflictions.

 

[TantumErgo90]

The most confusing thing to me is the sentence:

Christ’s one mediation would not be perfect unless he could so save one of his members so as to cooperate actively in the work of salvation of all others, viz., as maternal Mediatrix (18).

If someone could explain that it would be great! Chipper, thank you so much for your answer. I’ve never thought of that scripture in that way. It really shows how important it is to spread the faith.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

TantumErgo,

While I’ll refrain from comment on the the strength of the argument itself, I can perhaps shed some light on its meaning.

It looks to me to be some sort of permutation or extension of Blessed John Duns Scotus’ argument concerning the necessity of the Immaculate Conception of Mary, where he says that the

. . . perfect Mediator must, in some one case, have done the work of mediation most perfectly, which would not be unless there was some one person at least, in whose regard the wrath of God was anticipated and not merely appeased.

Duns Scotus’ argument here goes somewhat beyond just what “is fitting” and makes a claim that in order to perfectly fulfill the role as a Savior, Christ would have had to save at least one person from contracting original sin in the first place. As illustration: who would be the more perfect fireman, the one who rescues everyone from their burning houses or the one who does that AND actually prevents one person’s house from catching fire in the first place?

Again Duns Scotus says:
“The most perfect Mediator merits the removal of every punishment from the one who he reconciles, but the original fault is a greater punishment than even the loss of the vision of God. . . Therefore, if Christ reconciled in the most perfect way possible, he merited to remove that most heavy punishment from someone - and this could be his Mother.”

Duns Scotus’ argument here is that because the contracting of original sin is the greatest punishment, Christ as perfect redeemer must remove the greatest punishment from at least one person (i.e. Mary).

So, in the passage that you are dealing with, it looks like the person is saying that there is something in the nature of mediation such that it reaches its perfection only when someone can share in performing the mediation.

Does that help?

VC

 

[TantumErgo90]

Thank you so much. I just found the whole quote:

Simply put, the reply to the objection drawn from the analogy of two bridges is simply to say that it is only a metaphor, and does not clarify the essential difference between Christ as one Mediator and those associated with him in the work of mediation. Each bridge is an insufficient means of mediating a distance before they are united as one. With Christ his mediation qua man is perfectly one before shared by others. With the participation of others there remains but one mediation, as the thought and love of Christ remain perfect, no matter how many share his thoughts and affection; but there are many persons active in that mediation according to a certain order in relation to Christ, the one Mediator. This is true of Mary in a unique and non-repeatable way because of her fullness of grace in view of the divine and spiritual maternity. And this is what Scotus means in calling Mary Immaculate qua Immaculate the most perfect fruit of the most perfect redemption by a most perfect Redeemer. Christ’s one mediation would not be perfect unless he could so save one of his members so as to cooperate actively in the work of salvation of all others, viz., as maternal Mediatrix (11).

So, yes, it is Scotus’ argument. Thank you again. If you could give anymore insight, please do so.

 

[Chipper]

. . . perfect Mediator must, in some one case, have done the work of mediation most perfectly, which would not be unless there was some one person at least, in whose regard the wrath of God was anticipated and not merely appeased.Duns Scotus’ argument here goes somewhat beyond just what “is fitting” and makes a claim that in order to perfectly fulfill the role as a Savior, Christ would have had to save at least one person from contracting original sin in the first place. As illustration: who would be the more perfect fireman, the one who rescues everyone from their burning houses or the one who does that AND actually prevents one person’s house from catching fire in the first place?

Again Duns Scotus says:
VC

Do you know if this is something one would study in Theology classes in college?

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Hi Chipper,

I think that would be determined by what type of college, and whether or not one is studying Catholic theology, and whether or not Catholic theology is your major.

I would guess that Duns Scotus’ contribution to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception would be touched upon in any theology major’s coursework if they were studying Catholic theology. It might not go into the detail above. Then again, certain colleges might go into that level of detail even if you didn’t have theology as your major, or even if you weren’t studying only Catholic theology.

Not much of an answer, eh?

Did you have a specific college in mind?

VC

 

[Chipper]

Hi Chipper,

I think that would be determined by what type of college, and whether or not one is studying Catholic theology, and whether or not Catholic theology is your major.

I would guess that Duns Scotus’ contribution to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception would be touched upon in any theology major’s coursework if they were studying Catholic theology. It might not go into the detail above. Then again, certain colleges might go into that level of detail even if you didn’t have theology as your major, or even if you weren’t studying only Catholic theology.

Not much of an answer, eh?

Did you have a specific college in mind?

VC

I am really an old guy, who is just kicking around the idea of getting an education in Catholic Theology. No particular college in mind other than really cheap, dirt cheap that is. St. Edwards, Austin, Tx is close to me, but way to expensive.

 

[TantumErgo90]

So perfect mediation requires that someone be able to share in it? Is this acceptable Catholic belief?