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MarkA16
Guest
I am having trouble finding the answer to this. Do we Catholics call Mary the Queen of Heaven? People of other denominations say she is a pagan goddess? and that the Queen of Heaven is a devil. What’s the truth?
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NotWorthy
Guest
Catholics use the Kingdom of Israel, where the mother of the king was treated as the queen, with real authority. Solomon had 100’s of wives, so which wife should have been queen? If one was, the rest of the wives would have lined up in a bloodbath in order to gain power.
But each king had one mother. This role of queen was called the “Gebira” and her role was advocate for the people.
Mary, as mother of Jesus, is the queen mother in Heaven.
But each king had one mother. This role of queen was called the “Gebira” and her role was advocate for the people.
Mary, as mother of Jesus, is the queen mother in Heaven.
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VociMike
Guest
Mary is the Queen of Heaven because Her Son is the King. See the parallels beginning with King Solomon and his mother, Bathsheba. The bible explicitly talks about the queen mothers of the kings.
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Mommyof02green
Guest
This might help:
Q: Why do Catholics call Mary the Queen of Heaven? Doesn’t God rebuke the Israelites in the O.T. for worshipping a false goddess called the Queen of Heaven? Should we not refer to Mary with that title, therefore, since it is the title of a false goddess?
A: click here
Also this might help: Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God Lesson 4 talks about the importance of the Queen Mother in the Davidic kingdom of the Old Testament. The duties and privileges that came with the position of Queen Mother, and how Mary fills the position of Queen Mother in the kingdom of Christ.
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heisenburg
Guest
There are several answers to this questions, the easiest one to understand is as follows…
Historically (with respect to the OT), in jewish tradition, the Mother of an unmarried King is the Queen. By this tradition, Mary is the Queen of Heaven simply because Jesus is the King of Heaven.
Don’t see any issue with this once you udnerstand the historical refrence to it.
Does this mean she is Equal or Greater? Nope… Just that she has the title partly because the Jewish Tradition dictates she will.
There may be other deeper meaning that i am aware of, but for me, this is all that i need as to why she is called queen of heaven. Simply a matter of tradition.
In Christ
Historically (with respect to the OT), in jewish tradition, the Mother of an unmarried King is the Queen. By this tradition, Mary is the Queen of Heaven simply because Jesus is the King of Heaven.
Don’t see any issue with this once you udnerstand the historical refrence to it.
Does this mean she is Equal or Greater? Nope… Just that she has the title partly because the Jewish Tradition dictates she will.
There may be other deeper meaning that i am aware of, but for me, this is all that i need as to why she is called queen of heaven. Simply a matter of tradition.
In Christ
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NotWorthy
Guest
Look at some of these verses that detail the queen mother had real authority in ancient Israel:
This takes place during Solomon’s reign as Israel’s king.
There are other places in the Old Testament that show the queen mother in ancient Israel had real power. Jeremiah is speaking for the Lord in chapter 13:18-20,
This takes place during Solomon’s reign as Israel’s king.
Not only does Bathsheba get respect from him, but Solomon places a chair “at his right”, which is a sign of authority in the ancient monarchies. We see this in the Gospel of Matthew 20:21, “She (James and John’s mother) answered him, ‘Command that these two sons of mine sit, one at your right and the other at your left, in your kingdom.’"
There are other places in the Old Testament that show the queen mother in ancient Israel had real power. Jeremiah is speaking for the Lord in chapter 13:18-20,
Also in 2nd Kings, the King of Babylon is fixing to route Jerusalem.
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apophasis
Guest
Jesus, according the Annunciation (Lk. 1:32-33), was to be given the throne of His father DAVID, not Solomon. (1) When did David erect a throne for his mother? (2) Where in the Biblical account of Solomon is he directly instructed, by God, to elevate his mother to the position of Queen? (3) And where in the Biblical account does it say Solomon’s mother’s position was “Advocate for the People?”
Jesus is not now reigning as King on His father David’s throne, but He is sharing His Heavenly Father’s throne in Heaven and functioning there as the believer’s High Priest and Advocate before the Father.
He is yet to return and sit on His father David’s throne and reign as “King of kings and Lord of lords” in Jerusalem over all the earth. And in all the passages that describe this glorious, earthly, Kingdom reign, there is no mention of a “Queen Mother” at His side.
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bibleapologist
Guest
Apophasis,
John
www.gideonsword.net
I was reading through the posts and was anticipating posting a similar answer… I agreee, and I will take the back seat here.
John
www.gideonsword.net
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Dancelittleewok
Guest
The prophets foretold the coming of the Word. The apostles spread the good news about the Word. Martyrs died for the Word. Angels and saints worship the Word in Heaven, but Mary did what they could not—she bore the Word, hence she’s above the angels, saints, prophets, and martyrs.
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The_Augustinian
Guest
Well said! :clapping:
If anyone would discount the Virgin’s Queenship because she is “merely” the Mother of God, then he has no respect for motherhood. We cannot even chose our own parents, but God Himself chose His Mother, and God Himself crowned her. Any petty discussion by us will hardly take away from the eternally won glory of Our Lady.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Nice misdirection. Solomon was sitting on the throne of David at this time.
I didn’t know Solomon had to be directly instructed by God to do this.
What was Bathsheba doing when she approached Solomon? She was petitioning for someone else. Look at Mary at the Wedding in Cana. She is duplicating this role of advocate.
Doesn’t John point this out in Revelation 12:1? There is a woman in heaven with a crown. I’d interpret that to be a queen. I certainly hope you don’t think she’s a king, do you?
Also, look at my earlier post where it shows the Gebira and her authority. It sounds biblical to me. Even Jeremiah addresses the King and the Queen Mother for God.
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mikeledes
Guest
What is the nature of Mary’s Queenship. She is referred to as Queen of Heaven and Earth. What authority does she have over heaven and earth? What is the nature of this authority?
Thanks
Thanks
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NotWorthy
Guest
Her role was Advocate for the people. Just as Mary offers up her prayers for us Christians.
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Church_Militant
Guest
So then Solomon did not also share the Throne of David. Was he or was he not a Davidic King?
Who then was queen of Israel with David? The Bible does not say, so your inference is without merit.
Why would that have to be the case? Does it violate some law of God? No it does not. Does it become the custom for all the Davidic kings from Solomon on? Yes, it does. This is another inference without merit.
One more note on Mary as Queen of Heaven. Some people might ask how Mary could be the Queen of Heaven if Christ is her son. Well the answer is that in the Ancient Near East, the mother of the king often reigned as Queen. King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines but his mother Bathsheba was queen(1 Kings 2:19). So of course the Christ, coming from the house of David, would have his mother as his queen, while he was married to the Church. The queen mother, called giberah (“great lady”) is named throughout the Books of Kings whenever the King is named(cf. 1 Kings 1:2, 2 Kings 12:1, 14:1-2). 1 Kings 2:19 describes the Queen Mother Bathsheba and her role in her role as royal intercessor. Here she intercedes for Adonijah and the ritual surrounding this intercession suggests that intercession is a defined role. The seating of the Giberah on the King’s right hand side signifies extreme importance(Psalm 110:1). Does Mary intercede on our behalf before the King as the Bathsheba before Solomon. Yes at the wedding at Cana. Mary asks her son to perform a miracle on behalf of those in need and he does. John refers to Mary here as “the mother of Jesus”(cf. Luke 1:43) and Jesus refers to her as “Woman”(John 19:26). LINK
His Heavenly Father’s throne in Heaven and functioning there as the believer’s High Priest and Advocate before the Father. So Our Lord is not the Messiah? I don’t think the New Testament agrees with you here. John 1:41 He findeth first his brother Simon, and saith to him: We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ. and John 4:25 The woman saith to him: I know that the Messias cometh (who is called Christ). Therefore, when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith to her: I am he, who am speaking with thee.
Of course you will ignore all the clear additional meaning of Revelation 12:1, 5-6, & 13-17.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
What piques me is that while people have little if no problem accepting Jesus as a King (even if their own country is a republic or other non monarchy), they choke at having a queen. Jesus was born of a virgin (most Protestants agree here). I suppose that they feel that even though Mary is in heaven, giving her a title would somehow ‘take away’ something from Jesus. Like she’s in heaven but somehow capable of being power hungry, greedy, or venal. Yet who gave Mary the role of bearing the Son of God (and her OWN child as well) anyway?
God is ETERNAL AND UNCHANGING. If He gave Mary the Title of Mother of God by her acceptance to bear the Word, then guess what? He isn’t going to TAKE IT AWAY. It isn’t a ‘one time’ thing. She doesn’t just ‘incubate’ and then disappear like a thrown away box which has no purpose. She bore the Son of God and our Lord and Savior and THAT title is given her by GOD. He isn’t going to balk at giving her the title of “Queen”, especially since He has foreshadowed it in scripture (for anyone who reads scripture in CONTEXT, knowing Jewish history and not silly enough to be confused into thinking that the Jewish Gebira /queen mother is the EQUIVALENT of a Queen REGNANT who is queen ‘under her own power’ instead of being a Queen MOTHER, queen BECAUSE her SON is KING.)
Reminds me of the story of the good Protestant who died and went to heaven (see, we DO believe Catholics are not the only ones who can be saved). Jesus came over to him and brought him before a lovely woman wearing a crown of stars, and said, “Rev. X, I know you know my FATHER; let me introduce you to my MOTHER. You seem to have forgotten all about HER. . .”
God is ETERNAL AND UNCHANGING. If He gave Mary the Title of Mother of God by her acceptance to bear the Word, then guess what? He isn’t going to TAKE IT AWAY. It isn’t a ‘one time’ thing. She doesn’t just ‘incubate’ and then disappear like a thrown away box which has no purpose. She bore the Son of God and our Lord and Savior and THAT title is given her by GOD. He isn’t going to balk at giving her the title of “Queen”, especially since He has foreshadowed it in scripture (for anyone who reads scripture in CONTEXT, knowing Jewish history and not silly enough to be confused into thinking that the Jewish Gebira /queen mother is the EQUIVALENT of a Queen REGNANT who is queen ‘under her own power’ instead of being a Queen MOTHER, queen BECAUSE her SON is KING.)
Reminds me of the story of the good Protestant who died and went to heaven (see, we DO believe Catholics are not the only ones who can be saved). Jesus came over to him and brought him before a lovely woman wearing a crown of stars, and said, “Rev. X, I know you know my FATHER; let me introduce you to my MOTHER. You seem to have forgotten all about HER. . .”
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The_Augustinian
Guest
I think the best we can hope for is showing these Protestants that the Marian dogmas, like all the beliefs of Catholicism, do not contradict scripture. I do not hold their hesitation to accept the Virgin Mary as Queen of Heaven against them, because this was not clearly revealed in the Bible, and they are hesitant to go beyond what scripture requires. Of course, the one exception to this is the Eucharist, but that is another issue.
I do not believe that Mary is Queen because of certain verses, but on the authority of the Church. Until these Bible Christians believe in the authority of an apostolic and organically-founded Church and repent from their abstractions, then we cannot really convince them. As it is said: “For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible.”
I do not believe that Mary is Queen because of certain verses, but on the authority of the Church. Until these Bible Christians believe in the authority of an apostolic and organically-founded Church and repent from their abstractions, then we cannot really convince them. As it is said: “For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible.”
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VociMike
Guest
You know, they don’t even choke at the fact that all in heaven shall reign (Rev 22:5). No, it’s only Mary reigning in heaven that gets 'em in a twist.
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Church_Militant
Guest
shall reign (Rev 22:5). No, it’s only Mary reigning in heaven that gets 'em in a twist.
An interesting observation.
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valient_Lucy
Guest
Very true.
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MarkA16
Guest
That really helps. Thank a bunch.
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