Mary remained a virgin correct?

[DrewC]

I was talking to a protestant tonight and we got to talking about Mary and she was trying to say that Mary didnt remain a virgin because the Bible mentions Jesus having brothers and sisters and I told her that back in biblical times they refered to cousins as brothers and sisters and if he had brothers and sisters why did he give his mother to John when he was dying on the cross rather than a brother or sister? I guess the point im trying to make is how do you prove to a protestant that she remained a virgin?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I was talking to a protestant tonight and we got to talking about Mary and she was trying to say that Mary didnt remain a virgin because the Bible mentions Jesus having brothers and sisters and I told her that back in biblical times they refered to cousins as brothers and sisters and if he had brothers and sisters why did he give his mother to John when he was dying on the cross rather than a brother or sister? I guess the point im trying to make is how do you prove to a protestant that she remained a virgin?

The answer is how do they prove that she was not. Since all of their proofs don’t hold much weight and can be deflated very quickly. It is they who are trying to construct something that is not there in the Scriptures!

 

[NotWorthy]

I’d ask them what do they know that the Early Church Father didn’t know. This has been taught for at least 1800 years, even though the ECF’s had the same texts from the Gospels that we do today, except of course for the KJV.

 

[patg]

Proving this is certainly impossible - it is totally a matter of faith. You can’t even prove events which were far more significant, such as the resurrection. And why even discuss something which is so insignificant in your relationship with God?

Some people are still trying to prove aspects of Kennedy’s death and that was just around 40 years ago.

 

[thistle]

I was talking to a protestant tonight and we got to talking about Mary and she was trying to say that Mary didnt remain a virgin because the Bible mentions Jesus having brothers and sisters and I told her that back in biblical times they refered to cousins as brothers and sisters and if he had brothers and sisters why did he give his mother to John when he was dying on the cross rather than a brother or sister? I guess the point im trying to make is how do you prove to a protestant that she remained a virgin?

You might like to tell them that the founding fathers of Protestantism, Luther, Calvin and Zwingili, all declared that Mary did indeed remain a perpetual virgin.

 

[FCEGM]

I was talking to a protestant tonight and we got to talking about Mary and she was trying to say that Mary didnt remain a virgin because the Bible mentions Jesus having brothers and sisters and I told her that back in biblical times they refered to cousins as brothers and sisters and if he had brothers and sisters why did he give his mother to John when he was dying on the cross rather than a brother or sister? I guess the point im trying to make is how do you prove to a protestant that she remained a virgin?

Should you want to discuss this with your friend further, these articles will be very helpful:

catholic.com/thisrock/1990/9002fea2.asp

bringyou.to/apologetics/a82.htm

 

[Little_Mary]

Also, back in the day it was customary for a dying man to place his wife, mother, family into the care of the next eldest brother.

On the cross, Jesus gave Mary to John. Pretty strong evidence that there was not a sibling. And if there was, what a slap in the face that would have been.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I was talking to a protestant tonight and we got to talking about Mary and she was trying to say that Mary didnt remain a virgin because the Bible mentions Jesus having brothers and sisters and I told her that back in biblical times they refered to cousins as brothers and sisters and if he had brothers and sisters why did he give his mother to John when he was dying on the cross rather than a brother or sister? I guess the point im trying to make is how do you prove to a protestant that she remained a virgin?

You won’t prove it and don’t bother trying.

It’s a matter of faith that we Catholics beleive that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life. There is plenty of historical and scriptural evidence to back this belief, but it will never convince those who choose to believe otherwise.

Jim

 

[Little_Mary]

You won’t prove it and don’t bother trying.

It’s a matter of faith that we Catholics beleive that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life. There is plenty of historical and scriptural evidence to back this belief, but it will never convince those who choose to believe otherwise.

Jim

Also, back in the day it was customary for a dying man to place his wife, mother, family into the care of the next eldest brother.

On the cross, Jesus gave Mary to John. Pretty strong evidence that there was not a sibling. And if there was, what a slap in the face that would have been.

You may be right Jim, but I’ve seen some stunned faces when I bring up my little tidbit!!

 

[patg]

You won’t prove it and don’t bother trying.

It’s not something that can be proven, that’s why you shouldn’t bother trying.

It’s a matter of faith that we Catholics beleive that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life. There is plenty of historical and scriptural evidence to back this belief, but it will never convince those who choose to believe otherwise.

There is no historical evidence whatsoever - matters of faith are by definition outside the realm of human historical evidence.

 

[Liberian]

Drew,

From another thread:

To argue against Mary’s perpetual virginity is to suggest something else that is greatly implausible, not to say unthinkable: that neither Mary nor her protector, Joseph, would have deemed it inappropriate to have sexual relations after the birth of God in the flesh. Leaving aside for a moment the complete uniqueness of the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity, recall that it was the practice for devout Jews in the ancient world to refrain from sexual activity following any great manifestation of the Holy Spirit…

Mary became the vessel for the Lord of Glory Himself, and bore in the flesh Him whom heaven and earth cannot contain. Would this not have been grounds to consider her life, including her body, as consecrated to God and God alone? Or it more plausible that she would shrug it all off and get on with keeping house in the usual fashion?..

And then there is Joseph’s character to consider. Surely his wife’s miraculous conception and birthgiving (confirmed by the angel in dream-visions) and the sight of God incarnate in the face of the child Christ would have been enough to convince him that his marriage was set apart from the norm… If touching the ark of the covenant had cost Uzzah his life, and if even the scrolls containing the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets were venerated, certainly Joseph, man of God that he was, would neither have dared nor desired to approach Mary, the chosen of Israel, the throne of God, to request his ‘conjugal rights’!

The quote itself is from an Orthodox source:

goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article9174.asp

• Liberian

 

[JimR-OCDS]

It’s not something that can be proven, that’s why you shouldn’t bother trying.

There is no historical evidence whatsoever - matters of faith are by definition outside the realm of human historical evidence.

My mistake in how I wrote what I was trying to say.

The historical evidence I’m talking about is the fact that cousins were referred to as brothers and sisters, down to the 3rd generation.

There is no historical evidence that Mary in fact remained a virgin her entire life.

 

[IHS]

The answer is how do they prove that she was not. Since all of their proofs don’t hold much weight and can be deflated very quickly. It is they who are trying to construct something that is not there in the Scriptures!

What defines a godly marriage? Is sex included?

 

[Verbum]

Hi Drew,

You cannot prove or disprove from Scripture that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus. We bellieve it because it has been taught by the Church since time immemorial.

This question is age-old and has been dealt with by St. Jerome (translator of the Bible - the Vulgate) in his treatise “Against Helvidius” in the 5h Century. It can be found at newadvent.org/fathers/3007.htm

Verbum

 

[VociMike]

If Mary had other children, especially male children, then Jesus would have gravely sinned when He sent Mary to live for the rest of her life with John, for Jesus would have been tearing His mother away from the remainder of her family at exactly the time when she needed them most.

On top of that, Mary’s other male children would simply have forbidden their mother from going to live with John. They would have dragged her back home if necessary. And yet the bible says that she lived with John from that hour (the crucifixion) onward.

 

[Mannyfit75]

In addition to defending Mary remain a virgin, you can also read the Gospel of Luke, Jesus’ childhood account.

Take a close look in Luke 2:41-44.

Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover. And when he was twelve yrs old, they went p according to custom; and when the feast was ended, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem.

Now let’s break this down. Where are the the brothers and sisters of Jesus? Jesus at this time is twelve yrs old. Any traditional Jewish family don’t let any children behind especially at the feast of the Passover.

If he had brothers and sisters, Joseph, and Mary would bring them to the feast.

Another point, I like to make is that there is no word for cousin in Hebrew or Aramaic, so brother and sister is used. If your friend doubt that Aramaic is the language Jesus speaks, consider this passage. “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” This is Aramaic, and it translate, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”

 

[thistle]

My mistake in how I wrote what I was trying to say.

The historical evidence I’m talking about is the fact that cousins were referred to as brothers and sisters, down to the 3rd generation.

There is no historical evidence that Mary in fact remained a virgin her entire life.

If Mary had other children then why would Jesus at the moment of his death entrust Mary to John and not to his siblings. There is no logic in having a non family person look after his mother if Mary had other children who would have done that.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If Mary had other children then why would Jesus at the moment of his death entrust Mary to John and not to his siblings. There is no logic in having a non family person look after his mother if Mary had other children who would have done that.

This is a reasonable argument in support of Mary’s perpetual virginity, which I believe. But it’s not historical fact, which is the point I was clarrifying.

Jim

 

[Boxerdog]

Calvin and Luther believed that she remained a virgin. Most Protestents dont realize that.

 

[Mannyfit75]

This is a reasonable argument in support of Mary’s perpetual virginity, which I believe. But it’s not historical fact, which is the point I was clarrifying.

Jim

If it is not historical fact, is it not a fact that there is no word for cousin in Aramaic? Jews throughout the Scripture had Jews called their cousins brother.

Abraham called his nephew Lot, his brother. History has proved that support Mary’s perpetual virginity.

Let us take the case of the writings of the Early Church Fathers. Keep in mind, these early well know Christians used the same Scripture as the Apostles.

“But as we do not deny what is written, so we do reject what is not written. We believe that God was born of the Virgin, because we read it. That Mary was married after she brought forth, we do not believe, because we do not read it. Nor do we say this to condemn marriage, for virginity itself is the fruit of marriage; but because when we are dealing with saints we must not judge rashly. If we adopt possibility as the standard of judgment, we might maintain that Joseph had several wives because Abraham had, and so had Jacob, and that the Lord’s brethren were the issue of those wives, an invention which some hold with a rashness which springs from audacity not from piety. You say that Mary did not continue a virgin: I claim still more, that Joseph himself on account of Mary was a virgin, so that from a virgin wedlock a virgin son was born. For if as a holy man he does not come under the imputation of fornication, and it is nowhere written that he had another wife, but was the guardian of Mary whom he was supposed to have to wife rather than her husband, the conclusion is that he who was thought worthy to be called father of the Lord, remained a virgin.” Jerome, The Perpetual Virginity of Mary Against Helvedius, 21 (A.D. 383).

((continue))