Mary sinless? But she got anxious. Anxiety is a sin

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chaz said:
Catholics affirm that Mary was sinless. However, to worry, to be anxious, to be fearful, is forbidden numerous times in the scriptures (in fact, something along the lines of “do not fear” is referred to 366 times!). Clearly, anxiety is a sin.
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By that logic being sad is a sin, since as Paul says in Philippians:
“4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always: again, I say, rejoice.”
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Would you spank your child for being anxious about an exam? They’re sinning by your definition after all. Would you rebuke your spouse who is about to go into major surgery and tell them that their anxiety is sinful?
 
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Yes, Fauken, I would say that if the Apostle Paul says, “do this” and I do not do it, I am sinning. To not be always rejoicing in the Lord is indeed sinful. And I’ve found out that sorrow is not necessarily the opposite of rejoicing. Seems the human heart is far more capable of having various seemingly contrary emotions happening in tandem.

I wouldn’t spank my child for worry, but I would certainly direct him/her to trust in the Lord. My wife already knows that anxiety is sinful and so together we work on trusting the Lord so as to get free of it. And the more we do trust Him the less of a knee-jerk reaction to adversity it becomes. However, I am a monstrous sinner 24/7 in numberless ways so I’m not about to get harsh with my child or wife just because they struggle as I do. We all need a steady flow of forgiving mercy and grace and I more so than anyone else I know.
 
chaz said:
Do I hear you right that we can disobey Jesus not be sinning?
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No. I said that Jesus never told anybody to not be anxious. Anxiety is a natural human emotion. It’s okay to worry about things while still trusting God. It’s not okay to distrust God and say “He can’t fix this.” One is anxiety, and that is okay. The other is sinful. You have not correctly interpreted your cited passages and have thus been lead into error.
 
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Anxiety and worry are natural human emotions though they may well be unproductive and we might well be counseled against them.

But we don’t “choose” to worry - it happens. Sinful acts must be consciously and freely chosen. In the face of worry, we likely try hard, consciously, to be positive, and not to worry.
 
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Anxiety is not a sin. Anxiety is an emotion. Emotions are not sins.

The fact that Scripture says “do not fear” does not mean that fearing is a sin. Actions/choices which result from anxiety may or may not be a sin; but anxiety is a reaction to a situation - an emotion - just as laughter to a situation is an emotional reaction. What is being urged is that we have faith - in God, that He is ultimately in control, that He loves us, and the He wills what is best for us; which may include living through as best we can whatever situation made us anxious.
 
Just for the fun of it, I will occasionally read and compare scripture from different translations.

FWIW, an old obscure nineteenth century (Protestant) Bible called Young’s Literal Translation is still considered by many to be the most literal translation of the Bible in English ever written. It was translated directly from Hebrew and Greek by a self-taught scholar in Scotland. The passage in question from this source reads:
  • And, having seen him, they were amazed, and his mother said unto him, `Child, why didst thou thus to us? lo, thy father and I, sorrowing, were seeking thee.’
From the (Catholic) Douay-Rheims:
  • And seeing him, they wondered. And his mother said to him: Son, why hast thou done so to us? behold thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Same meaning or different than the NRSV?.. Sorrow vs. anxiety?
🤓
 
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quies said:
Same meaning or different than the NRSV?.. Sorrow vs. anxiety?
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The Greek verb is ὀδυνάσθαι (odunasthai). It has quite a large semantic range, and it encompass notions of sorrow, pain, suffering, anxiety. Generally the idea is “distress” of some sort. For context, the verb is also used by the rich man in Luke 16:24 “I am in agony (ὀδυνῶμαι) in these flames” and in Acts 20:38 when the Ephesians were “weeping… and grieving (ὀδυνώμενοι)” due to Paul’s departure.

There’s obviously a large difference in the tone and intensity of all these kinds of distresses, ranging from physical pain to emotional grief. Because of this, there’s no singular perfect translation. The RSV translated ὀδυνᾶσθαι in Lk 2:48 as “anxiously”, and the NRSV continued this trend with “with great anxiety”, likely to capture some sense of emotional distress that’s typical of any parent panicking over their child’s whereabouts.
 
I see it as advice not a command.

I did talk to a priest about my constant anxiety and he told me that how I felt was not sin as it is partly involuntary.

Now the sin comes with what we choose to do about this anxiety. Either pray or end up in despair.

One is good and the other bad.

Our emotions aren’t under our complete control but what we choose to do or not do can lead to sin.
 
After the Crucifixion and Burial of Christ, Mary and other women went into the middle of the night, against threat of death by authorities, to search for Christ so He can be anointed according to tradition. Does it look like Mary was anxious as in being scared or a coward? Seriously now! When she went there for the love of her Son, who is also the Son of God, but also her Son, faced peril of death or worse, the Apostles themselves scattered and hiding, and you are calling her a fearful coward! You either do not know the New Testament that well or you just want to argue about Theotokos on a Catholic forum, for the sake of arguing…
 
chaz said:
Do I hear you right that we can disobey Jesus not be sinning? He said, “Do not worry…” Matthew 6:25 Or disobey the Apostle Paul’s injunction, “do not be anxious about anything” (Phil 4:6) and not be sinning?
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Let me repeat what EVERYONE here is telling you. Anxiety is NOT NOT NOT a sin!
 
Chaz, it sounds like you are suffering not only from anxiety, but from scruples. Scruples is a mental condition not unlike OCD where you constantly think you are committing sins when you aren’t. Many people suffer from it, including some of the great saints.

Please speak to a mental health counselor about your anxiety, and to a priest about your scruples.
 
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There was also the Jewish belief in the Old Testament that if you saw God or his angelic representative, it meant you were going to die, since no one could look upon God and live. When God selected people for a mission by manifesting himself or sending an angel, the person had to be reassured that they weren’t going to die immediately.
 
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