Mary, "Sister of Aaron"

[Faith101]

Okay, that’s fine. First if Mohammed ever did call himself the “brother of Jesus” do you know where I could see the exact quote?

Sure. InshAllah, if you are interested, I can also find the exact isnad (the narrators who transmitted the message).

** Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one**.” (Book #55, Hadith #652)

I’m just saying all these claims keep being made here to try to explain the “sister of Aaron” verse, but they all have yet to be proven. Namely these assertions:

• Pious people in the time of Mary were often named/renamed “Aaron”.

Aaron was the brother of Moses, peace be upon them both. Both pious believers. Perhaps, and Allah knows best, it is similiar when we call a smart person Einstein.

• People in Mary’s time would sometimes refer to an ancestor as “brother” or “sister”.

• People in Mary’s time could be referred to their contemporaries as “brother” or “sister” to somebody, based on a similar level of piousness.

I’m asking for evidence that any of the above claims were actually true. So far, no evidence has been found for any of them.

In all honesty, i really dont know much about the history/culture of Mary’s time (may God be pleased with her).

Do you have proof that they did not or would not say that?

 

[Emad]

Sahih Muslim Book 025, Number 5326:
Mughira b. Shu’ba reported: When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Harun" (i. e. Hadrat Maryam) in the Qur’an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them.

 

[Emad]

Sahih Muslim Book 030, Number 5834:
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I am most akin to the son of Mary among the whole of mankind and the Prophets are of different mothers, but of one religion, and no Prophet was raised between me and him (Jesus Christ).

Book 030, Number 5836:
Abu Huraira reported many ahadith from Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and one is that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I am most close to Jesus, son of Mary, among the whole of mankind in this worldly life and the next life. They said: Allah’s Messenger how is it? Thereupon he said: Prophets are brothers in faith, having different mothers. Their religion is, however, one and there is no Apostle between us (between I and Jesus Christ).

 

[exoflare]

Faith101:

You say that there is a mistake in the Quran, because people of Mariam’s time called her “sister of aaron”. Joseph ALlison on the whyislam.org site, explained how their could be a genealogy between them (which you just disregarded without any proof or explanation).

Regardless of that, people can be called brothers or sisters of someone regardless of them being blood related or not (you said that yeah that stuff took place during that time, but it has nothing to do with what we are talking about)

I thought I explained this, but I disregarded that because even if Aaron was an ancestor of Mary (and he wasn’t), the only idiom that could have been used to state this ancestry of Mary would have been “daughter” and not “sister”. Mohammed would have known that this was the commonly known expression to say this and yet he decided to write “sister”.

 

[Faith101]

exoflare:

I thought I explained this, but I disregarded that because even if Aaron was an ancestor of Mary (and he wasn’t), the only idiom that could have been used to state this ancestry of Mary would have been “daughter” and not “sister”. Mohammed would have known that this was the commonly known expression to say this and yet he decided to write “sister”.

Exoflare

According to the post by Joseph Alision, it would have been sister and not daughter.

In any case…the beleivers are brothers and sisters of one another…you have not answered the question i posed in my post.

 

[exoflare]

Emad:

Sahih Muslim Book 025, Number 5326:
Mughira b. Shu’ba reported: When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Harun" (i. e. Hadrat Maryam) in the Qur’an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them.

I know this has become a long topic, but you’re really going to have to read the whole thing before you post. That quote from the hadith you just put has been stated here already, you know? Now, like I’ve been saying, can you prove that what Mohammed said here was actually true?

 

[Faith101]

exoflare:

That’s been stated here already, you know? Now, like I’ve been saying, can you prove that what Mohammed said here was actually true?

Exoflare, i think you are just arguing for the sake of arguing because you dont want to give in…and Allah knows best.

You are bringing the argument. Present proof. That’s how it goes. If you have no proof, then you have no argument

Also, can you prove that hte people of Mary’s time did not refer to the pious believers as brother/sister of the pious believers from another time?

 

[Emad]

I quoted a hadith below, the Prophet peace be upon him answered the question. Here it is again:

---

Sahih Muslim Book 025, Number 5326:
Mughira b. Shu’ba reported: When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Harun" (i. e. Hadrat Maryam) in the Qur’an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them.

 

[exoflare]

Faith101:

Exoflare

you have not answered the question i posed in my post.

which one?

 

[Faith101]

exoflare:

which one?

Do you have PROOF that the people of Mary’s time did not refer to the pious believers as sisters/brothers of pious believers who lived in the past?

exoflare, if your just going to argue about this…there is no point. TO you your religion and to me mine… Everything that has been stated makes complete sense…why dont you just start attacking another verse in the Quran…b/c this one is not working out for you. May Allah guide us.

 

[exoflare]

Emad:

I quoted a hadith below, the Prophet peace be upon him answered the question. Here it is again:

---

Sahih Muslim Book 025, Number 5326:
Mughira b. Shu’ba reported: When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Harun" (i. e. Hadrat Maryam) in the Qur’an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them.

So basically you’re just taking his word for it? Look at the history… Jews never used this expression in real life! There were other idioms they used, but not that one.

 

[Emad]

Lol exoflare I don’t have to prove anything to you. I am here to show you what I believe. Since you claim it was a mistake you have to prove it, not me.

 

[Emad]

exoflare:

So basically you’re just taking his word for it? Look at the history… Jews never used this expression in real life! There were other idioms they used, but not that one.

Prove it.

 

[exoflare]

Faith101:

Do you have PROOF that the people of Mary’s time did not refer to the pious believers as sisters/brothers of pious believers who lived in the past?

My reason for being so suspicious is that not one real instance of this, outside of Mohammed’s own claims, can be found anywhere.

Bear in mind, though, what you’re asking me can’t be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. It’s just like if I told you that people at that time referred to their direct ancestors as “uncle”. You couldn’t possibly prove to me that I was wrong, but there’s no reason you should just blindly take my word for it without proof of at least one instance of this from history. I’m only practicing the same reasonable skepticism here.

 

[exoflare]

Emad:

Prove it.

LOL you’re the one that claims this expression existed at the time. Why is it now my job to prove your own claim that you can’t even find any instance of?

My proof is that so far, you can’t even find one real example of this expression being used by the ancient Jews outside of what Mohammed claimed about them.

 

[Emad]

exoflare:

My reason for being so suspicious is that not one real instance of this, outside of Mohammed’s own claims, can be found anywhere.

So are you a historian or something? Or maybe an expert in the life of the early Jews? Perhaps there is an instance but **you ** never heard of it or read it. Just because you don’t know something it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I am done with this thread. Good night!!

 

[exoflare]

Emad:

Or maybe an expert in the life of the early Jews? Perhaps there is an instance but **you ** never heard of it or read it.

Yeah, that must be it.

 

[Edris]

First of all, stop assuming I’m just going to blindly agree with you for no reason that everything in the Quran is from God. You’re operating from a pre-determined belief that everything in the Quran must be true and then trying to make every other piece of information fit around that assumption, and I’m not. Please try to be objective here…

That said, what does it matter if the Aaron mentioned here is explicitly referred to as “Prophet Aaron” or not? …

I really don’t know why everyone has so far tried to answer this question by straying off the topic. I just want to know if you have any evidence that the specific idiom claimed here for “brother” and “sister” (the like of… in piousness) ever existed at all!

First of all i didn’t assume anything, i Didn’t say that you have to believe that to understand the conclusion, without believing that the Qur’an is God’s Word.

Second of all, i don’t care about the word “Prophet”, and from what u said regarding this, i realized that u didn’t understand a word of what i was talking about. Maybe i should’ve used more simple language, There is only one Prophet called Aaron, and that is the brother of Moses, I wanted to reach the conclusion that Aaron in the verse “O Sister of Aaron…” is not the brother of Moses, after that i was going to discuss the word “Sister”. If we take the Qur’an as a book (Whether it’s from God or from shakespear) and we read all the verses where the name Aaron is mentioned we find that in every verse there is a clear clue that Aaron is brother of Moses, except in one verse where God referred to him as Prophet, and as we know (at least in my limited knowledge) that there is only one Prophet called Aaron (i.e the Brother of Moses). EXCEPT in the story of Maryam sura 19, there is nothing linking him to Moses. Now why would this book the Qur’an in all 19 times link Aaron to Moses, except in the 20th the story of Maryam no link between Aaron and Moses, it seems a weired coincidence. And, miraculously this one time when the link between the brothers is missing, a mistake is committed (O sister of Aaron). Without asking you to believe that Qur’an is the Word of God or that Muhammad refuted the issue a long time ago, you’d think that maybe because this Aaron is not Moses brother but someone else. And Here comes the second point of who he was and what “Sister” means.

But it seems to me that: "**Stop assuming I'm just going to blindly agree with you for no reason that everything in the Quran is from God**"  ,    is your way my friend of discussion,  you keep hiding behind this phrase, Howcome you don't apply it when it comes to you explaining your religion,   As far as i'm concerned there are two or three verses that christian brothers and sisters keep quoting from the Bible to prove their religion  John (1:1) "In the beginning was the word......."  ,   the other verse "Amen, Amen I say to you before Abraham was I AM"  and  Jesus said "I'm the truth the way.....Alpha and Omega".   and this is the same reason why i ignored this thread and wrote an angry post in another thread.

Third of all,  accusing us of straying off topic.  In my own experience, i realized that you keep changing your questions ( i didn't ask about this..i asked about that,   this is not what i wanted to know ...etc....etc..),   In one occasion you asked (Where else is the other Aaron you speak of mentioned?)   and i answered to that question,   suddenly  you claim i didn't want to kknow to this what i wanted to know is (4 other questions)  :).

Peace

 

[exoflare]

Edris:

But it seems to me that: “Stop assuming I’m just going to blindly agree with you for no reason that everything in the Quran is from God” , is your way my friend of discussion, you keep hiding behind this phrase, Howcome you don’t apply it when it comes to you explaining your religion, As far as i’m concerned there are two or three verses that christian brothers and sisters keep quoting from the Bible to prove their religion John (1:1) “In the beginning was the word…” , the other verse “Amen, Amen I say to you before Abraham was I AM” and Jesus said “I’m the truth the way…Alpha and Omega”.

For what it’s worth, I think it’s just as absurd when Christians just go to the bible and quote verses without any background info or explanation as proof. This is what I was talking about here in this other topic, when I said…

**(From: **Do Muslims believe there is eternal life for people outside of Islam?)

exoflare:

It’s frustrating to see both Muslims and Christians here go from point A to point D so quickly in nearly every discussion on here. Please be careful, guys; it’s so easy to use unfamiliar terminology exclusive to our religions without remembering to explain it first.

Now that you’ve mentioned it, I’ve actually wanted to say it for a long time and this is just the straw that broke the camel’s back, but here goes:

***Christians on this board, please STOP using Bible verses by themselves as proof that Christianity is correct, expecting Muslims to just instantly believe it! It’s kind of naive to think they will accept this as proof when they believe the Bible is corrupted anyway. Think about it… it’s pointless.

Also, I think it would be better if certain others would stop posting a bunch of news articles about Muslim crimes around the world as a topics on their own. This is just plain rude and doesn’t accomplish anything.***

Thanks.

 

[cute2904]

exoflare:

Also, I think it would be better if certain others would stop posting a bunch of news articles about Muslim crimes around the world as a topics on their own. This is just plain rude and doesn’t accomplish anything.

Thanks.

What about thier prophet’s crimes?