Mary, Spouse of the Holy Spirit

[HillWilliam]

In some of these posts, I detect a “look Ma! no hands” attitude to riding the bicycle of Catholic dogma.
I recall Monsignor saying from the pulpit on Trinitarian Sunday words to this effect: Whatever we say about the Trinity, don’t expect to understand it…it’s defined by the Church as a Mystery.

So to those who are so sure about “well-belove spouse” being an appropriate way to think about Mary, that gives Jesus how many Fathers? Let’s count them up…Father in Heaven, now Holy Spirit, and don’t forget good ole Joe (or weren’t Mary and Joseph married?) And yet Jesus is co-equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit? so how does that work.

There’s a song called “I’m My Own Grandpa”…perhaps we can consult it for a way out of this Gordian knot?

Or perhaps we can stop using earthly terms to describe the mysteries of God.

What does Mary call herself in the Magnificat? “Handmaiden.” If we take that term to the online etymological dictionary, we see what it means, in history. We can then do the same with “spouse” and we can clearly see what it means. And they are not the same. So hanging these homemade prayers on the Rosary, and adding codicles to the already difficult dogma, this is a good idea?

It looks like that bunch of cans people used to tie to the bumper of the newlyweds, to rattle and bounce merrily along as they depart the church. Appropriate, if we’re bound and determined to declare the spouseability of a human being with God. If you really like that idea, you’ll like GrecoRoman mythology too?

It’s a tough thing to reason and defend. In fact, it seems to be to be indefensible, logically–which, by definition, is what faith is. Some people have been saying it’s a fact. Really? Then why don’t we call it The Catholic Fact? Faith is a working premise to help us get closer to Jesus, I thought? And Jesus, what did he say about this question? Nothing that has been brought up so far…in fact his instructions to us were to forget the pharasitical and sanhedrinical approach to religious practice, and live out our faith–not argue it.

 

[De_Montfort]

Doesn’t spouse imply some equality? Like between any other two married couples?
And what of Joseph? She lived with a man who was not her spouse?
I just don’t see the need to tack on more literal titles.

St. Maximilian Kolbe taught that Mary at Lourdes called Herself “The Immaculate Conception”

That the Holy Spirit is the divine Immaculate Conception the eternal Conception between the Father and the Son.

She is so one with the Holy Spirit as spouse that this is even a weak word to use to explain their union.

She shares the name of Her spouse the eternal Immaculate Conception (the Holy Spirit)
When She gave Her name at Lourdes “I am the Immaculate Conception”, shows their close union.

We should listen to the Saints they are Saints for a reason:thumbsup:

Not that Mary is equal but as a creature she lives one sole life with the Holy Spirit, who became complete Master of Her.

CCC
494 At the announcement that she would give birth to “the Son of the Most High” without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that “with God nothing will be impossible”: "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."139 Thus, giving her consent to God’s word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God’s grace:140

 

[Dorothy]

Thank you, De_Montfort, for your post.

I remember reading this description a long time ago with regards to our Blessed Mother. I am para-phrasing as I do not remember the exact words:

Our Blessed Mother Mary is like a clean pane of glass that has no smudges on it. The Light of the Blessed Trinity shines through her in a magnificent way. In her great humility she is nothing, and she knows it. Therein is one facet of her greatness.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Remember that the term “mystical spouse” is used frequently when referring to the union between the Blessed Virgin and Holy Spirit. To me, it is sort of like when we refer to the Church as the Bride of Christ. Christ is not married to the Church under the conventional definition of marriage. It is a mystical, spiritual, intimate bond. It is really beyond our limited understanding. So too, is the bond between the Blessed Virgin and the Holy Spirit. This bond existed from the moment of Mary’s conception, I would speculate, but was “consummated” when Christ became Incarnate of Mary. It is a bit hard for me to use these words (spouse, consummate, marriage) in reference to the Blessed Virgin and the Holy Spirit because they can so easily be misunderstood. I am speaking in spiritual terms-- I do not believe God had intercourse with Mary when I am talking about consummation (just had to clarify that). To further clarify, this spiritual marriage does not make Mary equal to God. Mary is not equal to the Holy Spirit in any sense. She is the handmaid of the Lord who desires only for His will to be accomplished. Truth be told, I think that the word spouse probably falls short of the relationship between the Mother of God an the Third Person of the Trinity. But it is at least something that sort of describes the deep bond between them… :twocents:

 

[HillWilliam]

I looked up Fr. Maximillian Kolbe, on Wikipedia, and read his story – which is an impressive story, far beyond what I had simply heard. And his academic and ecclesiastical credentials are far beyond what I have…now…what language did he write in? and what terms did he use? Do those terms have any ambiguity or “wiggle room”? –

because saying that (homemade) prayer now being tacked onto the rosary after completion of a decade, is a prayer to the Holy Spirit, not Mary, telling the Holy Spirit that Mary is “your well-beloved spouse.”

I’m guessing the Holy Spirit knows who Mary is, and was; I’m also guessing Mary now knows who the Holy Spirit is, was and will be.

But spouse? That makes it sound like the H.S. was tom-catting around, and spotted another man’s fiancee and muscled in.

Did Mary marry Joseph? This starts to smack of polyandry…We are talking theological mystery here…are we sure human terms cut it? Have you seen a picture of, and heard or read the story of Zeus and his gallivanting around? Leda and the Swan? Are we going to tar up the image of the moment of the Magnificat with that stuff from the rubbish heap of history?

So now the implication is that not accepting this terminology is that such thought is impious?

We’re supposed to listen to the saints? They’re saints for a reason? (well yeah! yes, they are). Does that mean they are infallible in faith and morals? I thought that privilege was reserved for the Pontiff and only when speaking or writing ex cathedra – on faith and morals.

so…I see it that Fr. Kolbe had great devotion, great learning, great service to the Church, great dedication to his vocation, and an almost superhuman courage – justifying his designation as martyr in his beatification process. Without his full explanation that Mary is espoused to the Holy Spirit, which is one thing, and that the Holy Spirit is espoused to Mary – gulp! I think we’re better off backing off ALL of that.

Please Note: Those who wish to pray the rosary with great devotion to Mary, and to her son, Jesus, should check out the Catholic Bishops of America website for instructions on how to pray the rosary, and notice these adjunct pieties are not tacked on like charms on a bracelet.
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/devotionals/rosaries/how-to-pray-the-rosary.cfm

Of course we should listen to the saints. And we should be guided by our bishops, es?
(PS. These are the same guys who said we should eliminate the death penalty which so many fundamentalists are so fond of.)

 

[De_Montfort]

Remember that the term “mystical spouse” is used frequently when referring to the union between the Blessed Virgin and Holy Spirit. To me, it is sort of like when we refer to the Church as the Bride of Christ. Christ is not married to the Church under the conventional definition of marriage. It is a mystical, spiritual, intimate bond. It is really beyond our limited understanding. So too, is the bond between the Blessed Virgin and the Holy Spirit. This bond existed from the moment of Mary’s conception, I would speculate, but was “consummated” when Christ became Incarnate of Mary. It is a bit hard for me to use these words (spouse, consummate, marriage) in reference to the Blessed Virgin and the Holy Spirit because they can so easily be misunderstood. I am speaking in spiritual terms-- I do not believe God had intercourse with Mary when I am talking about consummation (just had to clarify that). To further clarify, this spiritual marriage does not make Mary equal to God. Mary is not equal to the Holy Spirit in any sense. She is the handmaid of the Lord who desires only for His will to be accomplished. Truth be told, I think that the word spouse probably falls short of the relationship between the Mother of God an the Third Person of the Trinity. But it is at least something that sort of describes the deep bond between them… :twocents:

This is very well put

St. Louis de Montfort like St. Maximilian Kolbe said the expression “spouse” is a weak word to show their spiritual union.

St. Louis de Montfort used terms such as “spouse of the Holy Spirit”, “faithful spouse”, “inseparable spouse”," fruitful spouse"

"This is inadequate, for the Holy Spirit is not father of Jesus Christ, it is not He Who plants the seed as in the caricatured representation of the Holy Spirit given by psychoanalyst Jones. It is necessary to retain an awareness of the limits of this formula, as Montfort did, at least implicitly.
What Montfort means is that this union, this loving covenant that indentifies Mary with the Holy Spirit, makes of her not a transparent figure (for she is visible while the Spirit is invisible) but an expression a representation, and image, and icon—but also a temple of the Spirit, for He dwells in Her.
He dwells in us. And it is Mary who forms His chosen ones in herself and also gives Him ‘temples’ "

“Finally, like Kolbe, he was fascinated by the mysterious links between Mary and the Holy Spirit, which remain hidden and impenetrable. He experienced intensely their union and their mystical identification. But he did not believe them to be one and the same. He sensed the transcendence of the Holy Spirit and saw Mary entirely relative to Him, entirely in reference to Him.”

Kolbe wrote…
“The Immaculata is so perfect, she is so closely united with the Holy Spirit that she can be called his spouse. For this reason we consecrate everything to her. In her we find everything. She is so to speak the personification of the Holy Spirit.”

So we can see that Mary is a visible Icon, a living image of the Holy Spirit. Not that she is equal to Him because He is God, but Mary shares in one sole life with the Holy Spirit, and like you said the word “spouse” is a far off meaning of their total spiritual union!

EDIT: It seems this attraction is reciprocal according to Montfort. The Holy Spirit comes where Mary is, and Mary goes to where the Holy Spirit is. He leads to her, and she leads to Him Who brings everything about.