Mary standing on a serpent

[grannymh]

I believe that image come’s from Jerome’s translation of Genesis 3:15:

Theologically, it also makes sense that the one crushing the serpent’s head would be Mary. A woman, Eve, disobeyed God and brought death to the world; another woman, Mary, obeyed God and brought life into the world. Also, Mary appeared to St. Catherine LaBoure in 1830 and she was (I think) standing on a serpent.

Theologically, it is the original first human Adam who, by disobedience, committed the Original Sin.
(Romans 5: 12-21; 1 Corinthians: 15: 21-22) “By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.” ( CCC 404-405)

Being True God and True Man, Jesus assumed human nature by being born of Mary. It is her free choice of obedience to God – “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” (Luke 1:26-38)

Carrying Jesus in her womb, Mary figuratively stood on the serpent. (Genesis 3: 15; CCC 410-411)

Links to Catholic teachings, paragraphs 396-421

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/

 

[Nita]

*Gen 3:15 “I will put enmity between you and the woman,…”*I find it interesting that the verse specifies the “enmity” with satan (snake) occurs directly between satan and the woman.

*" and between **your seed *and her seed;"
According to the verse, the enmity of the woman’s seed (Jesus and/or Church) is not with satan, but with satan’s seed

 

[fasolislithuan]

writer12 don’t trouble yourself. The text in original (ancient hebrew) doesn’t have vowels. “she”, “he” and “they” are possible as correct translations for this passage. Modern hebrew text (masoretic source) spells as “they”,other as “he”, Jerome who knew deeply jewish sources translates in the Vulgata as “she”. All readings are legitime but I trust Jerome. St Paul preach we,all of us, the Chuch of Christ, crush under our feet the serpent (Rom. 16:20). The statue of your church is perfectly biblical.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I was raised Protestant and converted to Catholicism last year.

Yesterday at mass I was sitting in a different part of the church and noticed a statue of Mary. She was barefoot with her left foot on the neck of a serpent holding an apple in its mouth.

OK, any thoughts? It is CHRIST who puts his foot on the serpent’s neck, not Mary. This statue is troubling to me.

Thanks.

Thank you for letting me know where I should go to Mass if I am ever in your area. I wish the Catholic Church I go to Mass at would have the very same statue. Your Church must be huge, I mean huge to not notice a statue of Mary.
Sitting at a different part of any Catholic Church has never obstructed my view of Mary.
I have been to some really really big ones. I really wonder how big this Catholic Church is that you attend. It must be at least the size of a football field!
Merry Christmas

 

[Good_Fella]

Gen 3:15 "I will put enmity between you and the woman,…"I find it interesting that the verse specifies the “enmity” with satan (snake) occurs directly between satan and the woman.

*" and between **your seed ***and her seed;"
According to the verse, the enmity of the woman’s seed (Jesus and/or Church) is not with satan, but with satan’s seed

Catholic scholars and apologists in favour of ipsa have pointed out that the Jewish philosopher, Philo, who lived around 40 A.D., argued from the Hebrew poetic technique known as parallelism (chiamus) that the reading should be “she”. Genesis is a historical book written in prose, but parallel poetry (the expression of one idea in two or more different ways, or the idea of one line following the idea of another line) is a literary technique that is also used when a prophecy is said (cf. Gen 3:15). We have it also in Genesis 1. Parallel poetry comprises about 76% of the OT, but most commonly in Proverbs and the Psalms.

Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.
Psalm 119, 105

My son, my teachings you shall not forget and my **commands **your heart shall guard."
Proverbs 3:1

Below are Psalm 15:1-3 and Isaiah 6:10 broken down into their poetic sequences. In this example each thought is represented by the letters A, B, C and D. Each expression of a thought is represented by the numbers 1 and 2.

Psalm 15, 1-3:

A1. Lord, who may dwell in your** sanctuary**?
A2. Who may **live **on your holy hill?

dwell-live, sanctuary-holy hill

B1. He whose walk is blameless
B2. and who does what is righteous.

walk-does what is, blameless-righteous

C1. who **speaks ****the truth **from his heart
C2. and has **no slander **on his tongue.

speaks the truth- has no slander, heart-tongue

D1. who does his neighbor no wrong
D2. and **casts no slur **on his fellow man.

does no wrong-casts no slur, neighbour-fellow man

Isaiah 6:10
A. Make the **heart **of this people fat,

B. and make their ears heavy,

C. and shut their eyes;

C1. lest they see with their eyes,

B1. and hear with their ears,

A1. and **understand **with their heart, and return, and be healed."

[cf. Hebrew Parallelism, by Jeff A. Benner]

In Genesis 3:15, a couplet (distich) parallel a following couplet.

A1 I shall put enmities between** thee**
and the woman,

B1 and between thy seed and her seed:

A2 She shall crush thy head,

B2 and **thou **shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Here, line A1 goes with line A2, and line B1 corresponds to line B2. Therefore the “woman” of line A1 corresponds with the “she” of line A2. To make the subject of line A2 “he” or “it,” and to say that it relates to the “seed” of line B1, is apparently bad Hebrew poetry. Clearly, the “he” or “it” translation ruins the synonymous parallelism of the verse. Observe the rhythm of the phrasing here:

To follow the rhythm of the text in threefold idiomatic fashion it would read as follows:

You/woman
Your seed/her seed
She shall crush your head/you lay in wait for her heel

The following pattern disrupts the rhythm of the passage by making an abrupt switch of focus.

You/woman
Your seed/her seed
He shall crush your head/you lay in wait for his heel.

Indeed, in the sacred text, it is the woman who is at enmity directly with the serpent, while the seed of the woman is in parallel enmity with the seed of the serpent. If we are to correctly observe the parallelism in the text, we may properly conclude from the first “enmity” announced between the woman and the serpent, that the subsequent pronouns then logically refer to the first protagonist, the woman, and the first antagonist, the serpent. The pronoun ipsa thereby refers to the woman-protagonist crushing the “head” of the serpent-antagonist. She who is at enmity with the serpent victoriously crushes its head. A radical and abrupt shift to ipse (he) or ipsum (it) does violence to the rhythm of the passage. The woman crushes the serpent’s head with her heel by giving birth to her offspring.

The dragon stood in front of the woman [lay in wait for her heel] who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.
Revelation 12, 4-6

PAX
:heaven:

 

[glendab]

Hello Good Fella.

Catholic scholars and apologists in favour of ipsa have pointed out that the Jewish philosopher, Philo, who lived around 40 A.D., argued from the Hebrew poetic technique known as parallelism (chiamus) that the reading should be “she”. Genesis is a historical book written in prose, but parallel poetry (the expression of one idea in two or more different ways, or the idea of one line following the idea of another line) is a literary technique that is also used when a prophecy is said (cf. Gen 3:15). We have it also in Genesis 1. Parallel poetry comprises about 76% of the OT, but most commonly in Proverbs and the Psalms.

Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.
Psalm 119, 105

My son, my teachings you shall not forget and my **commands **your heart shall guard."
Proverbs 3:1

Below are Psalm 15:1-3 and Isaiah 6:10 broken down into their poetic sequences. In this example each thought is represented by the letters A, B, C and D. Each expression of a thought is represented by the numbers 1 and 2.

Psalm 15, 1-3:

A1. Lord, who may dwell in your** sanctuary**?
A2. Who may **live **on your holy hill?

dwell-live, sanctuary-holy hill

B1. He whose walk is blameless
B2. and who does what is righteous.

walk-does what is, blameless-righteous

C1. who **speaks ****the truth **from his heart
C2. and has **no slander **on his tongue.

speaks the truth- has no slander, heart-tongue

D1. who does his neighbor no wrong
D2. and **casts no slur **on his fellow man.

does no wrong-casts no slur, neighbour-fellow man

Isaiah 6:10
A. Make the **heart **of this people fat,

B. and make their ears heavy,

C. and shut their eyes;

C1. lest they see with their eyes,

B1. and hear with their ears,

A1. and **understand **with their heart, and return, and be healed."

[cf. Hebrew Parallelism, by Jeff A. Benner]

In Genesis 3:15, a couplet (distich) parallel a following couplet.

A1 I shall put enmities between** thee**
and the woman,

B1 and between thy seed and her seed:

A2 She shall crush thy head,

B2 and **thou **shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Here, line A1 goes with line A2, and line B1 corresponds to line B2. Therefore the “woman” of line A1 corresponds with the “she” of line A2. To make the subject of line A2 “he” or “it,” and to say that it relates to the “seed” of line B1, is apparently bad Hebrew poetry. Clearly, the “he” or “it” translation ruins the synonymous parallelism of the verse. Observe the rhythm of the phrasing here:

To follow the rhythm of the text in threefold idiomatic fashion it would read as follows:

You/woman
Your seed/her seed
She shall crush your head/you lay in wait for her heel

The following pattern disrupts the rhythm of the passage by making an abrupt switch of focus.

You/woman
Your seed/her seed
He shall crush your head/you lay in wait for his heel.

Indeed, in the sacred text, it is the woman who is at enmity directly with the serpent, while the seed of the woman is in parallel enmity with the seed of the serpent. If we are to correctly observe the parallelism in the text, we may properly conclude from the first “enmity” announced between the woman and the serpent, that the subsequent pronouns then logically refer to the first protagonist, the woman, and the first antagonist, the serpent. The pronoun ipsa thereby refers to the woman-protagonist crushing the “head” of the serpent-antagonist. She who is at enmity with the serpent victoriously crushes its head. A radical and abrupt shift to ipse (he) or ipsum (it) does violence to the rhythm of the passage. The woman crushes the serpent’s head with her heel by giving birth to her offspring.

The dragon stood in front of the woman [lay in wait for her heel] who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.
Revelation 12, 4-6

PAX
:heaven:

Interesting scholarship. I won’t go there, but my copy of the Latin translation has him/his in it. I’ll stick with that one. I do know Who it refers to.

Glenda

 

[Good_Fella]

Hello Good Fella.
Interesting scholarship. I won’t go there, but my copy of the Latin translation has him/his in it. I’ll stick with that one. I do know Who it refers to.

Hi, Glenda!

I’ll stick with the copy Pope Pius lX referred to in his Apostolic Constitution,* Ineffabilis Deus*, which defines the dogma of the Immaculate Conception.

“Could not God have given us, in another way than through the Virgin the Redeemer of the human race and the Founder of the Faith? But, since Divine Providence has been pleased that we should have the Man-God through Mary, who conceived Him by the Holy Ghost and bore Him in her breast, it only remains for us to receive Christ from the hands of Mary. Hence whenever the Scriptures speak prophetically of the grace which was to appear among us, the Redeemer of mankind is almost invariably presented to us as united with His mother. The Lamb that is to rule the world will be sent–but He will be sent from the rock of the desert; the flower will blossom, but it will blossom from the root of Jesse. Adam, the father of mankind, looked to Mary crushing the serpent’s head, and he dried the tears that the malediction had brought into his eyes.”

In traditional Rabbinic theology, the masculine reading does not specifically point to an individual messiah, although he is included in the human chain of genealogies (cf. The Seed of a Woman: A Kernel of Deception, Dr. Uri Josef). The pronoun “hu” is used in a plural context referring back to Eve’s seed which consists of all humanity. These sons and daughters of hers who observe the Torah and obey God’s commandments are the ones who crush the head of the serpent. In the extant Hebrew manuscripts where we find the feminine pronoun “hi” the woman who crushes the head of the serpent could be Eve through her righteous descendants or, according to classical Jewish theology, Israel – Mother Zion. Both readings are acceptable in Jewish thought as well, since Mother Zion crushes the head of the serpent with her heel through her righteous offspring. Eve is vindicated, so to speak, by having given birth to Abel.

So who are the offspring of the serpent besides Cain in particular? We find the answer summed up in the First Letter of John: ‘By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous’ (3:10-12). The offspring of the serpent are thus people who possess the spirit and disposition of the devil. And not unlike their symbolic parent, they hate God and all his righteous children to the extent of persecuting and putting them to death. It wasn’t the devil that Jesus and the prophets before him were at enmity with, or his disciples and martyrs who would follow him, but rather his offspring who served as his advocates, having succumbed to pride and fallen pray to Satan’s lies contesting the divine truth (cf. Jn 9:35-41).

*'Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation."*
Matthew 23, 29-36

PAX
:heaven:

 

[Nita]

Catholic scholars and apologists in favour of ipsa have pointed out that the Jewish philosopher, Philo, who lived around 40 A.D., argued from the Hebrew poetic technique known as parallelism (chiamus) that the reading should be “she”. Genesis is a historical book written in prose, but parallel poetry (the expression of one idea in two or more different ways, or the idea of one line following the idea of another line) is a literary technique that is also used when a prophecy is said (cf. Gen 3:15). We have it also in Genesis 1. Parallel poetry comprises about 76% of the OT, but most commonly in Proverbs and the Psalms.

Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.
Psalm 119, 105

My son, my teachings you shall not forget and my **commands **your heart shall guard."
Proverbs 3:1

Below are Psalm 15:1-3 and Isaiah 6:10 broken down into their poetic sequences. In this example each thought is represented by the letters A, B, C and D. Each expression of a thought is represented by the numbers 1 and 2.

Psalm 15, 1-3:

A1. Lord, who may dwell in your** sanctuary**?
A2. Who may **live **on your holy hill?

dwell-live, sanctuary-holy hill

B1. He whose walk is blameless
B2. and who does what is righteous.

walk-does what is, blameless-righteous

C1. who **speaks ****the truth **from his heart
C2. and has **no slander **on his tongue.

speaks the truth- has no slander, heart-tongue

D1. who does his neighbor no wrong
D2. and **casts no slur **on his fellow man.

does no wrong-casts no slur, neighbour-fellow man

Isaiah 6:10
A. Make the **heart **of this people fat,

B. and make their ears heavy,

C. and shut their eyes;

C1. lest they see with their eyes,

B1. and hear with their ears,

A1. and **understand **with their heart, and return, and be healed."

[cf. Hebrew Parallelism, by Jeff A. Benner]

In Genesis 3:15, a couplet (distich) parallel a following couplet.

A1 I shall put enmities between** thee**
and the woman,

B1 and between thy seed and her seed:

A2 She shall crush thy head,

B2 and **thou **shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Here, line A1 goes with line A2, and line B1 corresponds to line B2. Therefore the “woman” of line A1 corresponds with the “she” of line A2. To make the subject of line A2 “he” or “it,” and to say that it relates to the “seed” of line B1, is apparently bad Hebrew poetry. Clearly, the “he” or “it” translation ruins the synonymous parallelism of the verse. Observe the rhythm of the phrasing here:

To follow the rhythm of the text in threefold idiomatic fashion it would read as follows:

You/woman
Your seed/her seed
She shall crush your head/you lay in wait for her heel

The following pattern disrupts the rhythm of the passage by making an abrupt switch of focus.

You/woman
Your seed/her seed
He shall crush your head/you lay in wait for his heel.

Indeed, in the sacred text, it is the woman who is at enmity directly with the serpent, while the seed of the woman is in parallel enmity with the seed of the serpent. If we are to correctly observe the parallelism in the text, we may properly conclude from the first “enmity” announced between the woman and the serpent, that the subsequent pronouns then logically refer to the first protagonist, the woman, and the first antagonist, the serpent. The pronoun ipsa thereby refers to the woman-protagonist crushing the “head” of the serpent-antagonist. She who is at enmity with the serpent victoriously crushes its head. A radical and abrupt shift to ipse (he) or ipsum (it) does violence to the rhythm of the passage. The woman crushes the serpent’s head with her heel by giving birth to her offspring.

The dragon stood in front of the woman [lay in wait for her heel] who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.
Revelation 12, 4-6

PAX
:heaven:

Thanks very much Good Fella for all of the above information and the additional info in your next post.
Statues of Mary crushing the serpent have always seemed very correct to me since the Scripture specifically identifies enmity as existing between the “serpent” and the “woman”.

 

[Good_Fella]

Thanks very much Good Fella for all of the above information and the additional info in your next post.
Statues of Mary crushing the serpent have always seemed very correct to me since the Scripture specifically identifies enmity as existing between the “serpent” and the “woman”.

You’re welcome, Nita.

This verse is taken from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT, which I believe Luke referred to before the original manuscript was revised and corrupted through the Jamnian Greek translation in the following century.

καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῇ ᾿Οζίας· εὐλογητὴ σύ, θύγατερ, τῷ Θεῷ τῷ ῾Υψίστῳ παρὰ πάσας τὰς γυναῖκας τὰς ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, καὶ εὐλογημένος Κύριος ὁ Θεός, ὃς ἔκτισε τοὺς οὐρανοὺς καὶ τὴν γῆν, ὃς κατεύθυνέ σε εἰς τραῦμα κεφαλῆς ἄρχοντος ἐχθρῶν ἡμῶν

Then said Ozias unto her, O daughter, blessed art thou of the most high God above all the women upon the earth; and blessed be the Lord God, which hath created the heavens and the earth, which hath directed thee to the cutting off of the head of the chief of our enemies.
Judith 13, 18

Notice the parallelism between what Ozias and Elisabeth declare:

“Blessed art thou of the most High God above all the women upon the earth; and blessed be the Lord God.”

“Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb” (cf. Lk 1:42 NAB)

Judith, who prefigures Mary, is pronounced blessed along with God. Just as God is most worthy of adoration and worship in His absolute holiness and goodness, so too Judith is most worthy among women to receive praise and veneration for her act of faith in collaboration with God in a humble spirit of goodness and righteousness for the sake of His people. To be blessed can mean having the Divine character infused into the fabric of our souls. This is the spiritual component of being blessed. The physical component involves obeying God and abiding by His will. It is expressed by doing what He wills for the sake of His kingdom in charity and grace.

“For this thy confidence shall not depart from the heart of men, which remember the power of God for ever. And God turn these things to thee for a perpetual praise, to visit thee in good things because thou hast not spared thy life for the affliction of our nation, but hast revenged our ruin, walking a straight way before our God. And all the people said; So be it, so be it.”
Judith 13, 19-20

“Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
Luke 1, 45

And Mary said,
““My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden.
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed;
for he who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.”
Luke 1, 46-49

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it.”
Luke 11, 27-28

“We understand that He [Christ] became man by means of the Virgin, so that the disobedience caused by the serpent might be destroyed just as it began. Eve, a virgin, having conceived the word of the serpent, gave birth to disobedience and death. Mary on the other hand, conceiving faith and joy, when the Angel Gabriel announced to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her so that the Holy One born of her would be called the Son of God, answered: ‘Be it done unto me according to thy word.’ He is then born of her, He of whom the Scriptures so often speak. By her, God destroyed the empire of the serpent and of all the angels and men who became like to the serpent, and frees from death those who repent of their faults and believe in Him.”
Justin Martyr, Apologia [155 A.D.]

 

[Good_Fella]

Genesis 3:15 is the first verse that reveals to us how Mary would become the New Eve. The woman alluded to as being at enmity or hostility with the serpent is Mary. It was God who put this total opposition between Mary and Satan, and we believe it to be in the same likeness as Christ’s hostility with the seed of the serpent: sinful humanity. For Mary to be like Christ in His hostility with Satan and his offspring, it is reasonable to say that this passage implies Mary’s lack of sin and affinity with the devil. There is no surer way to be in total hostility with Satan than to be in the fullness of God’s constant grace (cf. Lk 1:28) and than to observe the will of God and abide by it. It was by the His grace, that God put Mary and Satan in a complete state of opposition and had the woman and the serpent become genuine enemies with hatred for each other, which the Hebrew word for enmity (eybah) denotes. Mary would be a friend of Satan if at any moment she had sinned and consequently be an unworthy mother of our Lord. Eve was at enmity with God at the time she mortally sinned against Him and did what was hateful in His sight.

By the mediation of divine grace, we all crush the serpent’s head by renouncing our ego and imitating Christ in the conduct of our lives. This is what St. Paul means by our “dying to self”. We humiliate the tempter whenever we overcome our pride and refuse to pay heed to his deceptive words. When God spoke to the serpent in Genesis 3:15, it was in reference to his antagonism with Eve, not with Adam whose fall was brought about by the prompting of his helpmate. It was directly through a woman that Adam fell from grace. The serpent didn’t speak to him directly, but rather through the words of Eve. So God basically told Satan that because of what he had managed to do through a woman, what he had done would be resolved through a woman as well. This woman was Mary who in faith defeated the wiles of the serpent or dragon by her humility and charity, without which she would not have conceived and borne the Messiah. When Mary pronounced her fiat, she did in fact die to self, and by doing so she humiliated the devil. Nothing humiliates Satan more than our resisting him for the sake of God’s goodness and love. What has humiliated him even more to the greatest extreme is the fact that a woman had defeated him by undoing what a woman had wrought for mankind (Adam) through his machination.

It appears that the Jewish historian, Josephus, in his time read “aute” (she) rather than “autos” (he) in the Greek translation of Genesis 3:15 in the Hebrew OT.

*“He ordained that the woman should inflict
wounds on his head.” *

PAX
:heaven:

 

[KathleenGee]

I was taught that St. Jerome copied literally other translations.

 

[glendab]

Hello Everyone, especially Goodfella.

Thank you very much for mentioning Ineffabilis Deus of Pope Pius IX written in 1854. It really is a very beautiful document and very informative. However, I’d question your sources for it for when I do a little looking at EWTN, a very credible source I might add, and read the actual document, I find the following paragraph:

Interpreters of the Sacred Scripture

The Fathers and writers of the Church, well versed in the heavenly Scriptures, had nothing more at heart than to vie with one another in preaching and teaching in many wonderful ways the Virgin’s supreme sanctity, dignity, and immunity from all stain of sin, and her renowned victory over the most foul enemy of the human race. This they did in the books they wrote to explain the Scriptures, to vindicate the dogmas, and to instruct the faithful. These ecclesiastical writers in quoting the words by which at the beginning of the world God announced his merciful remedies prepared for the regeneration of mankind—words by which he crushed the audacity of the deceitful serpent and wondrously raised up the hope of our race, saying, “I will put enmities between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed”[13]—taught that by this divine prophecy the merciful Redeemer of mankind, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was clearly foretold: That his most Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary, was prophetically indicated; and, at the same time, the very enmity of both against the evil one was significantly expressed. Hence, just as Christ, the Mediator between God and man, assumed human nature, blotted the handwriting of the decree that stood against us, and fastened it triumphantly to the cross, so the most holy Virgin, united with him by a most intimate and indissoluble bond, was,** with him and through him**, eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely triumphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot.[14]

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9INEFF.HTM

I added some boldness and underling to the pertinent parts. Notice please that the Pope clearly states that those interpreters of the sacred Scriptures mentioned, meaning the Genesis accounts, that is HE who will do the crushing, NOT HER. To this he faithfully adds that Mary’s role in this task is* through her Son*, and with her Son, but he doesn’t state that it is she who does the crushing. This is key. Please read it slowly so you don’t miss the parts I highlighted in my silly way. Also it is my opinion that the Pope is correct, that Jesus is the one who does the crushing and in a mystically unified way, Mary joins in this victory as do all of us who are her children. So, that being said, let’'s get back to that statue and it’s defense.

Thanks for your patience with my fumbling scholarship. I really am no scholar at all, and can only claim expert status on the mashed potatoes and gravy that will accompany my dinner tonight.

Thanks again for your patience and understanding. I am a work in progress and God isn’t finished with me yet.

Glenda

 

[fasolislithuan]

I was taught that St. Jerome copied literally other translations.

The original text (ancient hebrew) doesn’t have vowels. The root of the word (without vowels) is the same for “he” or “she”, Both possibilities are legitime. St Jerome who got in touch and spoke profusely with hebrew scholars of 4th Century and had available original manuscripts translates in the Vulgata as “she”. Hundred of years AFTER St Jerome the masorets introduced the use of vowel in the biblical hebrew (the complete masoret text is not compiled until 10th Century post-Christ, six centuries after the Vulgata). Modern hebrew bibles that are based in the masoretic text spell as “he”. Both are valid interpretations, but personally I trust more in St Jerome.

But the polemic is absurd. Romans 16:20 makes clear that is the Church who crushes the serpent. So is Jesus (he), the Church, the Virgin Mary and all the saints of the Church (baptized) who crush the head of the serpent.

 

[glendab]

P.S. Goodfella, cay you please add the links to your sources so your documentation can be verified? Thanks.

 

[glendab]

Hello again everyone. Here is the actual Scripture found in Romans from the USCCB website and the link back to the text.

Against Factions.
17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create dissensions and obstacles, in opposition to the teaching that you learned; avoid them. 18 For such people do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I want you to be wise as to what is good, and simple as to what is evil; 20** then the God of peace will quickly crush Satan under your feet.** The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

usccb.org/bible/romans/16

Please notice that St. Paul states very clearly that it is GOD who does the crushing of the devil and St. Paul’s hope is that He will do so quickly. He doesn’t twist the Protoevangelium up to confuse anyone into thinking they will crush any devils or that Mary will do it either. He says it is God who does the work and to Him belongs all the glory of the victory. If you ask this little non-expert, it is this switching of Jesus for Mary that gives the Protestants credibility in accusing us Catholics of worshiping Mary and giving her an equality with God that doesn’t exist. As I said before, she would be the first one to say that it is her divine Son who destroys the works of the devil, not herself. But the Church has said so abundantly for her. I’m grateful for the opportunity to have been able to share some of the words with which this is done, namely in Ineffiabilis Deus.

Glenda

P.S. Granny, thank you very much for reminding everyone of the figurative meaning in the interpretations and not the literal.

 

[glendab]

Hello again everyone.

Here is what the Vatican copy of the Bible says:

Genesis 15: 3 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P5.HTM

Please notice it says “he will strike…at his heel.” This is not a mistake. The real mistake is with those who think the only Bibles around are those that support their gender agendas.

Glenda

 

[Good_Fella]

Hello Everyone, especially Goodfella.

Thank you very much for mentioning Ineffabilis Deus of Pope Pius IX written in 1854. It really is a very beautiful document and very informative. However, I’d question your sources for it for when I do a little looking at EWTN, a very credible source I might add, and read the actual document, I find the following paragraph:

Interpreters of the Sacred Scripture

The Fathers and writers of the Church, well versed in the heavenly Scriptures, had nothing more at heart than to vie with one another in preaching and teaching in many wonderful ways the Virgin’s supreme sanctity, dignity, and immunity from all stain of sin, and her renowned victory over the most foul enemy of the human race. This they did in the books they wrote to explain the Scriptures, to vindicate the dogmas, and to instruct the faithful. These ecclesiastical writers in quoting the words by which at the beginning of the world God announced his merciful remedies prepared for the regeneration of mankind—words by which he crushed the audacity of the deceitful serpent and wondrously raised up the hope of our race, saying, “I will put enmities between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed”[13]—taught that by this divine prophecy the merciful Redeemer of mankind, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was clearly foretold: That his most Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary, was prophetically indicated; and, at the same time, the very enmity of both against the evil one was significantly expressed. Hence, just as Christ, the Mediator between God and man, assumed human nature, blotted the handwriting of the decree that stood against us, and fastened it triumphantly to the cross, so the most holy Virgin, united with him by a most intimate and indissoluble bond, was,** with him and through him**, eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely triumphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot.[14]
Glenda

'How think otherwise? Could not God have given us, in another way than through the Virgin the Redeemer of the human race and the Founder of the Faith? But, since Divine Providence has been pleased that we should have the Man-God through Mary, who conceived Him by the Holy Ghost and bore Him in her breast, it only remains for us to receive Christ from the hands of Mary. Hence whenever the Scriptures speak prophetically of the grace which was to appear among us, the Redeemer of mankind is almost invariably presented to us as united with His mother. The Lamb that is to rule the world will be sent - but He will be sent from the rock of the desert; the flower will blossom, but it will blossom from the root of Jesse. Adam, the father of mankind, looked to Mary crushing the serpent’s head, and he dried the tears that the malediction had brought into his eyes.’
Pope Pius X, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, Encyclical on the Immaculate Coneception

Hi, Glenda. Thanks for the correction. On file I have created excerpts from papal documents placed in categories pertaining to various theological topics. For some reason I listed this excerpt under the Immaculate Conception and attributed it to Pope Pius lX in his Apostolic Constitution. At the time his AC was issued, the Latin Vulgate was the official Bible of the Church. In the excerpt you provided, the Pope is affirming that Mary, not unlike all of us, has a share in Christ’s victory over Satan in a singular way. The idea of Mary crushing the serpents head finds its way into the document through Jerome’s translation of the verse. When the pope commissioned Jerome to produce a single version for the Church, there had existed texts that contained either ipse or ipsa. Jerome chose ipsa for unknown explicit reasons. Perhaps he sought to draw a parallel between the OT biblical images in which a woman “blessed above all women” stood at enmity with the chieftans of Israel’s enemies and smote their heads. Jael and Judith, for instance, are seen to have prefigured Mary. Certainly the Church Father didn’t mistranslate anything. For him this text was also a matter of interpolation and putting things into context. He spent fifteen years in Bethlehem working on translating the original Hebrew into Latin, having consulted top Jewish scholars and acquired the best Jewish manuscripts available at the time. And as a biblical scholar and the top linguist in the Church, he may have taken Hebrew parallel poetry into account. The New Latin Vulgate, the current official Church version, has the neuter pronoun “it” (ipsum) referring back to the seed.

PAX

 

[Good_Fella]

Hello Everyone, especially Goodfella.

Thank you very much for mentioning Ineffabilis Deus of Pope Pius IX written in 1854. It really is a very beautiful document and very informative. However, I’d question your sources for it for when I do a little looking at EWTN, a very credible source I might add, and read the actual document, I find the following paragraph:

Interpreters of the Sacred Scripture

The Fathers and writers of the Church, well versed in the heavenly Scriptures, had nothing more at heart than to vie with one another in preaching and teaching in many wonderful ways the Virgin’s supreme sanctity, dignity, and immunity from all stain of sin, and her renowned victory over the most foul enemy of the human race. This they did in the books they wrote to explain the Scriptures, to vindicate the dogmas, and to instruct the faithful. These ecclesiastical writers in quoting the words by which at the beginning of the world God announced his merciful remedies prepared for the regeneration of mankind—words by which he crushed the audacity of the deceitful serpent and wondrously raised up the hope of our race, saying, “I will put enmities between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed”[13]—taught that by this divine prophecy the merciful Redeemer of mankind, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was clearly foretold: That his most Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary, was prophetically indicated; and, at the same time, the very enmity of both against the evil one was significantly expressed. Hence, just as Christ, the Mediator between God and man, assumed human nature, blotted the handwriting of the decree that stood against us, and fastened it triumphantly to the cross, so the most holy Virgin, united with him by a most intimate and indissoluble bond, was,** with him and through him**, eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely triumphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot.[14]
Glenda

'How think otherwise? Could not God have given us, in another way than through the Virgin the Redeemer of the human race and the Founder of the Faith? But, since Divine Providence has been pleased that we should have the Man-God through Mary, who conceived Him by the Holy Ghost and bore Him in her breast, it only remains for us to receive Christ from the hands of Mary. Hence whenever the Scriptures speak prophetically of the grace which was to appear among us, the Redeemer of mankind is almost invariably presented to us as united with His mother. The Lamb that is to rule the world will be sent - but He will be sent from the rock of the desert; the flower will blossom, but it will blossom from the root of Jesse. Adam, the father of mankind, looked to Mary crushing the serpent’s head, and he dried the tears that the malediction had brought into his eyes.’
***Pope Pius X, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, Encyclical on the Immaculate Connception ***

Hi, Glenda. Thanks for the correction. On file I have created excerpts from papal documents placed in categories pertaining to various theological topics. For some reason I listed this excerpt under the Immaculate Conception and attributed it to Pope Pius lX in his Apostolic Constitution. At the time his AC was issued, the Latin Vulgate was the official Bible of the Church. In the excerpt you provided, the Pope is affirming that Mary, not unlike all of us, has a share in Christ’s victory over Satan in a singular way. The idea of Mary crushing the serpent’s head finds its way into the document through Jerome’s translation of the verse. When the pope commissioned Jerome to produce a single version for the Church, there had existed texts that contained either ipse or ipsa. Jerome chose ipsa for unknown explicit reasons. Perhaps he sought to draw a parallel between the OT biblical images in which a woman “blessed above all women” stood at enmity with the chieftans of Israel’s enemies and smote their heads. Jael and Judith, for instance, are seen to have prefigured Mary. Certainly the Church Father didn’t mistranslate anything. For him this text was also a matter of interpolation and putting things into context. He spent fifteen years in Bethlehem working on translating the original Hebrew into Latin, having consulted top Jewish scholars and acquired the best Jewish manuscripts available at the time. And as a biblical scholar and the top linguist in the Church, he may have taken Hebrew parallel poetry into account. The New Latin Vulgate, the current official Church version, has the neuter pronoun “it” (ipsum) referring back to the seed.

PAX

 

[Good_Fella]

Hello again everyone. Here is the actual Scripture found in Romans from the USCCB website and the link back to the text.

Against Factions.
17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create dissensions and obstacles, in opposition to the teaching that you learned; avoid them. 18 For such people do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I want you to be wise as to what is good, and simple as to what is evil; 20** then the God of peace will quickly crush Satan under your feet.** The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

usccb.org/bible/romans/16

Please notice that St. Paul states very clearly that it is GOD who does the crushing of the devil and St. Paul’s hope is that He will do so quickly. He doesn’t twist the Protoevangelium up to confuse anyone into thinking they will crush any devils or that Mary will do it either. He says it is God who does the work and to Him belongs all the glory of the victory…

What Paul means is that the Christian community at Rome resist the wiles of the devil and persevere in God’s grace. It is by resisting the devil’s prompting and allowing God’s grace to rule over our lives that Satan is crushed under ‘our’ feet. God’s grace enables us to do just that.

“Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.”
Luke 10, 19

PAX
:heaven:

 

[WonderAndAwe]

I sometime struggle with take that verse as God telling all mankind thought the ages to “Kill all and every snake you find.”