mary, the eternal virgin?

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wanderingbaptis

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can someone help me understand this?

i thought Jesus had at least one brother–James, if not more (mentioned somewhere in Matthew in the same sentence as His “sisters”). but i keep seeing on here that Mary was a virgin till the end, so both can’t be true…?

help please!
 
wanderingbaptis said:
can someone help me understand this?

i thought Jesus had at least one brother–James, if not more (mentioned somewhere in Matthew…
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It would help if you were more specific.

In other words, please show us where in the Bible is says Jesus had at least one brother, etc.
 
 
I’m sorry, I should have been more specific.

Matt 13:55-57: “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? (56) And are not all his sisters with us?” (57) And they took offense at him. But Jesus said unto them, “Ap prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household”
 
campeador said:
It would help if you were more specific.

In other words, please show us where in the Bible is says Jesus had at least one brother, etc.
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There are actually several places, but they need to be properly understood.

The links I gave cite some of them
 
Sister in Christ, actually, but thank you both for your help with the topic.
I’m not very well versed in scripture (no pun intended), but I’m doing my best to remedy the situation by reading every day and studying as I go.
 
wanderingbaptis said:
I’m sorry, I should have been more specific.

Matt 13:55-57: “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? (56) And are not all his sisters with us?” (57) And they took offense at him. But Jesus said unto them, “Ap prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household”
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terms of familial relationships were possibly different back in Jesus’ day. a close cousin was probably a “brother” or “sister.” you know that now a days a person you are not related to by blood but that are really good and close personal friends may be an “uncle” or “aunt” and their sons and daughters may be your “cousins.” and also people say stuff like “jimmy and johnny are such good friends are like brothers” so why couldn’t it have been similar to that in Jesus’ day. also you may want to think about the possibility that maybe through some happenstance Joseph and Mary may have adopted another son or daughter.

when Jesus said to the apostle whom he loved “behold your mother” that did not literally mean that they were blood related, in Jesus’ day a woman was not allowed to live alone and since Joseph by that time was dead, Jesus had no brother, and Mary’s own father was dead Mary had to live with someone, and what better symbolism than to take His mother and make her the mother of another person, there by establishing the idea that Mary is the “new Eve” (and of course we are all descendants of the original Eve so now we are decendants of the new Eve, Mary)

Also have you ever called someone your “brother” or “sister” in Christ, it might have been the same principal instead of “Christ” it would just be “God”
 
wanderingbaptis said:
can someone help me understand this?

i thought Jesus had at least one brother–James, if not more (mentioned somewhere in Matthew in the same sentence as His “sisters”). but i keep seeing on here that Mary was a virgin till the end, so both can’t be true…?

help please!
Click to expand...
*There are two people with the name “James” in the New Testament, James the son of Zebedee (Matthew 4:21) and the Apostle James the son of Alphaeus (Matthew 10:3) James the son of Alphaeus had a mother named Mary, however it was not the Virgin Mary, it was one of the three other Mary’s described in the New Testament. *

*These are the only two “James” in the New Testament and their father is not Joseph “the carpenter”. *

Additionally, the Biological mother was not the Virgin Mary’s. There were three additional Mary’s described “looking on from a distance”, when Jesus was crucified, and this would include the Mary, who is described as the mother of James and Joseph, a different Mary, Mary Justus, the wife of Titius Justus., Mary the mother of Jesus was not “looking on from a distance”, she was right there a the foot of his cross.

Neither “James” is the biological brother of Jesus.

Here are the bible references for “James”.

James**,**

Matthew 4:21
Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. They were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them,

Matthew 10:2
These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;

Matthew 10:3
Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;

Matthew 17:1
After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.

Matthew 27:55-56
55 There were many women there, looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him. 56 Among them were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of **James **and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
 
Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s sons.

Mark 1:19
When he had gone a little farther, he saw** James son of Zebedee** and his brother John in a boat, preparing their nets.

Mark 3:17
James son of Zebedee and his brother John

Mark 3:18
Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot

** James, son of Zebedee** and James, son of Alphaeus
 
wanderingbaptis said:
I’m sorry, I should have been more specific.
Matt 13:55-57: “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? (56) And are not all his sisters with us?” (57) And they took offense at him. But Jesus said unto them, “Ap prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household”
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Wanderingbaptist,
  1. Is not this the carpenter’s son. No! It is not the carpenter’s Son, He is God the father’s Son, In this the Jews that said that were wrong! Wrong because they did not know the Truth like us Christian know the truth, Joseph is his step father.
  2. Is not His Mother called Mary? Yes, Mary is His Mother. In this the Jews were right.
  3. Are not all His brothers James and Joseph, and Simon and Judas and are not all his sisters with us? In these times many who were cousin can also be called brothers and sisters.
  4. Wanderingbaptist is your mother my mother? No! but We Christians, our bothers and sister in Christ.
The Jews above truly believed 100% that the Carpenter was the father of Jesus Christ, and we know they are wrong for believing so. Then again, they are also wrong regarding His Brother and sisters as well, for Jesus Christ had no siblings.

Joseph, New his role, and that was the Protector only to Jesus and Mary. Joseph was a Holy Man, do you think a Holy Man like Joseph, would have the nerve to touch Virgin Mary in a sexual way, he knowing that she conceived by the Power of the Holy Spirit and has given birth to Jesus Christ, God the Father’s only Son, his savior? This is not a Jerry Springer show? This is a Holy Family.

This is how I know, that Joseph would never touch Virgin Mary, when Mary told Joseph that she was pregnant, Joseph did not want anything to do with Mary any more, am I correct on this? It took a dream from God the Father for Joseph not to fear to take Mary as His Wife, Am I correct on this? Well, Now if Joseph did not want anything to do with Mary because He thought she had relations with a man, a human being, do you think Joseph would want to touch Mary in that way when He now knows it was by the power of the Holy Spirit that She conceived? Never would he, touch Mary in that way but now Joseph, begins to start His role as only as protector, provider of this Holy Family. Amen

Wanderingbaptist, if you were Joseph, would you have the nerve to touch Virgin Mary after giving birth to God’s own son, or would you know your role?

There is 2 reasons why on the cross Jesus gave John to Mary and Mary to John… 1. that Mary is Our Mother as well. and 2. Mary, had no other son and daughter to care for her, this is why John immediately took Mary into his Home.

Ufamtobie
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wanderingbaptis said:
can someone help me understand this?

i thought Jesus had at least one brother–James, if not more (mentioned somewhere in Matthew in the same sentence as His “sisters”). but i keep seeing on here that Mary was a virgin till the end, so both can’t be true…?

help please!
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There are two possible explanations.

The one that has been standard in Catholicism for some centuries claims that the “brothers” and “sisters” were cousins. This goes back to Jerome, I believe. I think it’s flawed.

The more reasonable possibility is that these were Joseph’s children by a previous marriage. I think this was suggested by Epiphanius (though I may have them mixed up). I believe that this is the most reasonable interpretation of the evidence in the Gospels, even apart from the issue of the Perpetual Virginity. Nowhere are we given any indication that these were Mary’s children, and John’s story of Jesus entrusting His Mother to John would seem to indicate that she had no other children. (This isn’t conclusive–it is possible that Jesus would rather have Mary cared for by a disciple than by her own children who were not believers–but I think the more reasonable interpretation is that Mary was about to be left with no one to take care of her in her old age.) Furthermore, the way Jesus’ brothers treat him seems unlikely if he were the oldest brother and head of the household. If He were a younger half/stepbrother (I say “half-brother” because obviously Joseph was the putative father), then their behavior makes a lot more sense.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
There are two possible explanations.

The one that has been standard in Catholicism for some centuries claims that the “brothers” and “sisters” were cousins. This goes back to Jerome, I believe. I think it’s flawed.

The more reasonable possibility is that these were Joseph’s children by a previous marriage. I think this was suggested by Epiphanius (though I may have them mixed up). I believe that this is the most reasonable interpretation of the evidence in the Gospels, even apart from the issue of the Perpetual Virginity. Nowhere are we given any indication that these were Mary’s children, and John’s story of Jesus entrusting His Mother to John would seem to indicate that she had no other children. (This isn’t conclusive–it is possible that Jesus would rather have Mary cared for by a disciple than by her own children who were not believers–but I think the more reasonable interpretation is that Mary was about to be left with no one to take care of her in her old age.) Furthermore, the way Jesus’ brothers treat him seems unlikely if he were the oldest brother and head of the household. If He were a younger half/stepbrother (I say “half-brother” because obviously Joseph was the putative father), then their behavior makes a lot more sense.

Edwin
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I see no reason that, if Jesus had brothers, why Jesus would go against Jewish custon and assign her to someone else. Jesus, as he was dying, knew she had no one and made sure to ensure her welfare.

Additionally, I do not believe the idea of cousin is as flawed as you do.

"When trying to understand these verses, note that the term “brother” (Greek: adelphos) has a wide meaning in the Bible. It is not restricted to the literal meaning of a full brother or half-brother. The same goes for “sister” (adelphe) and the plural form “brothers” (adelphoi). The Old Testament shows that “brother” had a wide semantic range of meaning and could refer to any male relative from whom you are not descended (male relatives from whom you are descended are known as “fathers”) and who are not descended from you (your male descendants, regardless of the number of generations removed, are your “sons”), as well as kinsmen such as cousins, those who are members of the family by marriage or by law rather than by blood, and even friends or mere political allies (2 Sam. 1:26; Amos 1:9).

Lot, for example, is called Abraham’s “brother” (Gen. 14:14), even though, being the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28), he was actually Abraham’s nephew. Similarly, Jacob is called the “brother” of his uncle Laban (Gen. 29:15). Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their “brethren,” the sons of Kish. These “brethren” were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

The terms “brothers,” “brother,” and “sister” did not refer only to close relatives. Sometimes they meant kinsmen (Deut. 23:7; Neh. 5:7; Jer. 34:9), as in the reference to the forty-two “brethren” of King Azariah (2 Kgs. 10:13–14).

Because neither Hebrew nor Aramaic (the language spoken by Christ and his disciples) had a special word meaning “cousin,” speakers of those languages could use either the word for “brother” or a circumlocution, such as “the son of my uncle.” But circumlocutions are clumsy, so the Jews often used “brother.”

The writers of the New Testament were brought up using the Aramaic equivalent of “brothers” to mean both cousins and sons of the same father—plus other relatives and even non-relatives. When they wrote in Greek, they did the same thing the translators of the Septuagint did."

From Catholic Answers
 
not trying to challenge, but if they were joseph’s children from another marriage, wouldn’t they have been mentioned on the trip to the census around the time of Jesus’ birth?

and i am reading the Bible, which is just breeding more questions. :confused:
 
wanderingbaptis said:
not trying to challenge, but if they were joseph’s children from another marriage, wouldn’t they have been mentioned on the trip to the census around the time of Jesus’ birth?
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Why wouldn’t you challenge? It’s a good point, and to be honest I’d never thought of it. Perhaps they weren’t mentioned because they weren’t relevant to the story. Why would they be mentioned?

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Why wouldn’t you challenge? It’s a good point, and to be honest I’d never thought of it. Perhaps they weren’t mentioned because they weren’t relevant to the story. Why would they be mentioned?

Edwin
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i just assumed that because everyone of the house of david had to report, that the entire family would have traveled together. and they were never mentioned in the angel’s warning to take “the child and his mother” to egypt to escape Herod, and if they were traveling together, wouldn’t the other children be taken too? unless they were old enough to be married with their own families I guess, but if that’s the case, would they still be alive by the time that they were referred to in Matt 13:55? I know life expectancy wasn’t what it is today, and if they were full grown with their own families when Jesus was born, they’d be quite a bit older when Jesus began his ministry, right?
 
wanderingbaptis said:
Sister in Christ, actually, but thank you both for your help with the topic.
I’m not very well versed in scripture (no pun intended), but I’m doing my best to remedy the situation by reading every day and studying as I go.
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As a former Southern Baptist now convert to Catholicism (26+ years) hello and welcome to CAF. I just want to say good for you, keep reading and studying, especially Sacred Scripture. The road blocks you may run into are anti-Catholic materials and those espousing anti-Catholic falsehoods. You are going to have to try and sift through what is false and what is true. But there is hope and help in that department. CAF is a good resource to ask questions about the Catholic Church and Catholicism. There are even a few Protestants here that will tell you when something is a lie regarding Catholicism. They do not necessarily agree with Catholicism, but do respect it and will not let a lie prevail. You will find out who they are as you learn and grow here. In the end when it comes to your reading and studies, remember to pray and pray some more, listen for the Holy Spirit to guide you to the truth and to where He wants to lead you. Peace.
 
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