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benidict
Guest
oooh Church militant, YOU ARE GOOD! GOD BLESS YOU! PEACE
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cruisin
Guest
Now, Please answer my question.
Luke is writing to a non-Jew. His purpose is to confirm in a letter to Theophilus all that he was taught. If it was understood from the git go that Jesus had no siblings and Mary was to stay a virgin, why did Luke use a word that could be understood as brother? Wouldn’t this have been confusing, to Theophilus, since he wasn’t a Jew?
If you want to start on the old testament prophesies go write ahead.
it’s
with me.I’ve read most of the comments about the Mary/ Ark thing. sounds like someones practicing eisegesis.
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LilyM
Guest
Yes, but she was planning to get married. Thinking about her marriage, as engaged women do. Therefore, assuming their relationship was an ordinary one, planning to consummate the marriage and planning, if possible, to have babies as a result of that sex.
Being a woman I know women, and there isn’t a married woman I know, virgin or not, who wasn’t looking forward to and thinking about her wedding night once she was engaged! It’s a very special thing for a couple, always. Without a doubt the topic would’ve crossed Mary’s mind when Gabriel mentioned her conception.
Besides which, there was precedent which Mary also would’ve had in mind. Several women (Sarah and the mothers of Samuel and Samson) were all barren and all assured by heavenly visitation that they would conceive. All DID conceive in due course (and Mary had no reason to believe she would conceive immediately - remember Gabriel did NOT say ‘you will conceive NOW’)
Without exception, all these conceptions took place in the context of marital sex. Mary, being a devout Jew, knew her scriptures and knew well the stories of these women who had preceded her. So WHY the question ‘how will it happen’?
She knew perfectly well how such things had always happened in the past - husband and wife had consummated the marriage in the natural manner and baby had come along. No need for the question unless she was intending NOT to consummate the marriage in the normal manner.
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benidict
Guest
adjust your arrogant, snobby attitude, and maybe i will converse again with you. it is you who are missing the boat on this one.Now, Please answer my question.
Luke is writing to a non-Jew. His purpose is to confirm in a letter to Theophilus all that he was taught. If it was understood from the git go that Jesus had no siblings and Mary was to stay a virgin, why did Luke use a word that could be understood as brother? Wouldn’t this have been confusing, to Theophilus, since he wasn’t a Jew?
If you want to start on the old testament prophesies go write ahead.
it’s
I’ve read most of the comments about the Mary/ Ark thing. sounds like someones practicing eisegesis.
its obvious we are casting pearls before swine here. and your answers hold no weight. and you have not shown any evidence to counter what is written in luke, or what the Church Fathers taught. consequently, im probably more familiar with the historic customs of the Jews than you are. 
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Church_Militant
Guest
The same could be said for you as well, Sir.Now, Please answer my question.
Luke is writing to a non-Jew. His purpose is to confirm in a letter to Theophilus all that he was taught. If it was understood from the git go that Jesus had no siblings and Mary was to stay a virgin, why did Luke use a word that could be understood as brother? Wouldn’t this have been confusing, to Theophilus, since he wasn’t a Jew?
If you want to start on the old testament prophesies go write ahead.
it’s
I’ve read most of the comments about the Mary/ Ark thing. sounds like someones practicing eisegesis.
Luke wrote in Greek and the Lord and apostles all spoke Aramaic, as displayed many places in the New Testament. Some things don’t translate as well, such as Peter’s name Cephas, and the word for cousin.
In point of fact you refer to one such in your post. “Theophilus” means “one who loves God” and is not necessarily the name of a person so much as a greeting to all the believers.
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Nicea325
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
And where does it say she planned to have intercourse and more children?
Lu 8:19 And his mother and his brothers came to him, and they were not able to get near him because of the great number of people.
Lu 8:20 And someone said to him, Your mother and your brothers are outside desiring to see you.
Joh 2:12 After this he went down to Capernaum, with his mother, his brothers, and his disciples, and they were there not more than two or three days.
Ac 1:14 And they all with one mind gave themselves up to prayer, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
You also cannot prove it and are adding your own interpolations. I am reading the text as written.Your argument is circular.
are you saying that I am incompetent and unable to read and understand the written word?
YYAAAWWWNNNN…the same old burned out misunderstood verses…throw me something new? Yes,incompetent in regards to what specific words meant in the Jewish language and in Greek. The word ‘brother’ IS A DEAD HORSE! It has been rebuked over and over against novelist as yourself and I am not doing this again. You believe a novelty.
Really…I have been through this a billion times,not going to exhaust myself again. Your belief is NOVEL,whether you care to admit or not.
Originally Posted by Nicea325
And where does it say she planned to have intercourse and more children?
Lu 8:19 And his mother and his brothers came to him, and they were not able to get near him because of the great number of people.
Lu 8:20 And someone said to him, Your mother and your brothers are outside desiring to see you.
Joh 2:12 After this he went down to Capernaum, with his mother, his brothers, and his disciples, and they were there not more than two or three days.
Ac 1:14 And they all with one mind gave themselves up to prayer, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
You also cannot prove it and are adding your own interpolations. I am reading the text as written.Your argument is circular.
are you saying that I am incompetent and unable to read and understand the written word?
YYAAAWWWNNNN…the same old burned out misunderstood verses…throw me something new? Yes,incompetent in regards to what specific words meant in the Jewish language and in Greek. The word ‘brother’ IS A DEAD HORSE! It has been rebuked over and over against novelist as yourself and I am not doing this again. You believe a novelty.
And admit you’re unable to prove from the TEXT ALONE where scripture EXPLICITLY states Mary gave birth to other children? NO WHERE does scripture state Mary had other children…no where.You must testify to your poor knowledge of scripture terminology. Show me ONE early church father who taught and advocated that the belief Mary remained an ever-virgin was a HERESY? Wow! Amazing how the early church attacked heresies,but the one on Mary was completely ignored? Wow!
Oh brother! Same ole boring arguments from noveltists. And if Jesus had BLOOD brothers,then why would ALL the Gospel writers NOT mention Jesus’ telling Mary that one of his BLOOD brothers must care for her as the Jews did?
Twisting scripture is so common among “johnny-come-lately” churches who invent new ideas/beliefs due to poor biblical exegesis.
Really…I have been through this a billion times,not going to exhaust myself again. Your belief is NOVEL,whether you care to admit or not.
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cruisin
Guest
If you don’t wish to have an intellegent conversation that’s up to you. your arrogent no it all responses are pretty typical.
i’m here for something more intelligent.
My frist rule of good exegesis is to look at the writer and the audience being written to. I Haven’t seen any comments on this site reguarding this first rule. this is why I am bringing up my questions. If you can’t handle them, then please, refrain from answering posts.
I am also bored with the same old regurgitations.
unlike you I do not place tradition over scripture. I compare everything and take nothing for granted until it has been completely examined.
In your mind these ideas of Mary has been settled. In mine they are not.
If you are unable to handle the questions, then please move on. thank you
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Nicea325
Guest
And your arrogance is pretty typical too…and? Again,tell me something I have not heard before.
Such as? Your questions have been answered.
Your questions have been answered by many others here and the same questions have been answered thousands of times before you and I were even born.
Tell me about it! Pass the TUMS.
And unlike you, I do not abide to novelties over what the early church taught and believed. Why should I listen to you who is 2,000 years separated from Christ and the Apostles. And I am also not ignorant to the fact that ORAL traditions were later penned to be called scripture. Read some history,it does not cost you anything but sometime.Learn the difference betteen tradition with a capital T and lower case t and Scripture and Tradition are NOT pitted against each other.
Not in my mind,in the mind of the EARLY CHURCH. Perhaps not in yours because your church is probably not even 100 years old and it is very typical of all these new churches to go against what has been settled and discussed over and over for centuries. It is called PRIDE.
Handle? There is nothing to handle because as stated,it is the same ole boring questions.
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benidict
Guest
arrogance? id say that sign fits you. your really not here for itelligent discussion. otherwise, you would be able to explain why even the reformers agreed with the Catholic Church on Mary. how come they agree with us, and why do protestants like yourself, disagree? are you more wise than the Church fathers who were closer in time to the actual events than you ever will be? are you wiser than your own reformers? if you cannot hadle the questions, then please Move on.If you don’t wish to have an intellegent conversation that’s up to you. your arrogent no it all responses are pretty typical.
i’m here for something more intelligent.
My frist rule of good exegesis is to look at the writer and the audience being written to. I Haven’t seen any comments on this site reguarding this first rule. this is why I am bringing up my questions. If you can’t handle them, then please, refrain from answering posts.
I am also bored with the same old regurgitations.
unlike you I do not place tradition over scripture. I compare everything and take nothing for granted until it has been completely examined.
In your mind these ideas of Mary has been settled. In mine they are not.
If you are unable to handle the questions, then please move on. thank you
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Dokimas
Guest
At the point in human history that these verses were actual events, the only father of Jesus that was known to the populous was Joseph. Looking back we now understand Joseph was a ‘stepfather’.
The same Greek word for the relationship between Jesus and the four men mentioned here is the same Greek word for the relationship between Andrew and Petern (Simon) and between James and John, the sons of Zebedee. It is reasonable to think that these men where at least the step brothers of Jesus. It’s unclear if their mother was Mary.
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Dokimas
Guest
I read the post in question: surely condescending and maybe arrogant.arrogance? id say that sign fits you. your really not here for itelligent discussion. otherwise, you would be able to explain why even the reformers agreed with the Catholic Church on Mary. how come they agree with us, and why do protestants like yourself, disagree? are you more wise than the Church fathers who were closer in time to the actual events than you ever will be? are you wiser than your own reformers? if you cannot hadle the questions, then please Move on.
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benidict
Guest
thank you for coming here dokimas. good to have a intelligent, thoughtful protestant to give their view. glad you showed up. actually got one post deleted, due to my self admitted uncharitable response. i was going to delete it, but was beatent to the punch.
Peace
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Dokimas
Guest
Is this a compliment or putting me in my place?thank you for coming here dokimas. good to have a intelligent, thoughtful protestant to give their view. glad you showed up. actually got one post deleted, due to my self admitted uncharitable response. i was going to delete it, but was beatent to the punch.
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VetA
Guest
Apostolic Tradition is half of what we believe, the bible is the other half, it would be leaving half of our beliefs out not to discuss it…
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VetA
Guest
looks complimentary to me
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benidict
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
are you saying that I am incompetent and unable to read and understand the written word?
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Here is a scripture confirming God’s prophecy from Gen.3:15 that satan (sin) will attack the woman, but by God’s enmity, and Word satan (sin) is unable to accuse Mary of sin. Although the father of lies today is still hard at it, of which you appear to believe that lie that Mary sinned;
Revelation 12: 14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, 11 so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year. 15 The serpent, 12 however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current. 16 But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth. 17 Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus.
If Mary is without sin (God placed enmity between sin and the woman) and became the God bearer and never broke her vow of chasitity from Luke 1:34. Mary did not rejoice over the good news of child bearing, but pondered the angels greeting and doubted by stating “how can this be, since I know no man” when both the angel and Mary had knowledge that Mary was betrothed to Joseph. Mary, John the baptist, a relative of Mary took the Nazeren vow, Sampson also took the Nazeren vow. See the law of a young maiden still in her fathers house;
Numbers 30: 4-17 "When a woman, while still a maiden in her father’s house, makes a vow to the LORD, or binds herself to a pledge, 5 if her father learns of her vow or the pledge to which she bound herself and says nothing to her about it, then any vow or any pledge she has made remains valid. 7 "If she marries while under a vow or under a rash pledge to which she bound herself, 8 and her husband learns of it, yet says nothing to her that day about it, then the vow or pledge she had made remains valid.14 "Any vow or any pledge that she makes under oath to mortify herself, her husband can either allow to remain valid or render null and void. 17 These are the statutes which the LORD prescribed through Moses concerning the relationship between a husband and his wife, as well as between a father and his daughter while she is still a maiden in her father’s house. Gospel when Mary was never cursed as Zechariah was for doubting Gabriel’s message, when Mary doubted saying “how can this be since I know no man”? when both Mary and Gabriel knew that Mary was betrothed to Joseph. Mary did not rejoice in the good news of child bearing, but doubted because of her vow to remain a virgin unto God.
This is just an introduction of the mass scriptures that foretell of Mary’s immaculate conception, Mary’s perpetual virginity, Mary’s Theotokos, Mary’s assumption into heaven both body and soul.
Let us know when your ready to dig deeper in the mysteries of God…OK?
Peace be with you
]
Revelation 12: 14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, 11 so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year. 15 The serpent, 12 however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current. 16 But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth. 17 Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus.
If Mary is without sin (God placed enmity between sin and the woman) and became the God bearer and never broke her vow of chasitity from Luke 1:34. Mary did not rejoice over the good news of child bearing, but pondered the angels greeting and doubted by stating “how can this be, since I know no man” when both the angel and Mary had knowledge that Mary was betrothed to Joseph. Mary, John the baptist, a relative of Mary took the Nazeren vow, Sampson also took the Nazeren vow. See the law of a young maiden still in her fathers house;
Numbers 30: 4-17 "When a woman, while still a maiden in her father’s house, makes a vow to the LORD, or binds herself to a pledge, 5 if her father learns of her vow or the pledge to which she bound herself and says nothing to her about it, then any vow or any pledge she has made remains valid. 7 "If she marries while under a vow or under a rash pledge to which she bound herself, 8 and her husband learns of it, yet says nothing to her that day about it, then the vow or pledge she had made remains valid.14 "Any vow or any pledge that she makes under oath to mortify herself, her husband can either allow to remain valid or render null and void. 17 These are the statutes which the LORD prescribed through Moses concerning the relationship between a husband and his wife, as well as between a father and his daughter while she is still a maiden in her father’s house. Gospel when Mary was never cursed as Zechariah was for doubting Gabriel’s message, when Mary doubted saying “how can this be since I know no man”? when both Mary and Gabriel knew that Mary was betrothed to Joseph. Mary did not rejoice in the good news of child bearing, but doubted because of her vow to remain a virgin unto God.
This is just an introduction of the mass scriptures that foretell of Mary’s immaculate conception, Mary’s perpetual virginity, Mary’s Theotokos, Mary’s assumption into heaven both body and soul.
Let us know when your ready to dig deeper in the mysteries of God…OK?
Peace be with you
]
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elvisman
Guest
And Acts 1:15 uses the very same Greek word for Brother when it tells us that there were 120 Adelphoi gathered in one place.
**Do you *honestly *believe that they are all uterine brothers?
**
“Adelphos”** and “adelphoi” were used much more liberally than the normal meaning. It was applied to cousins, uncles, nephews and kinsmen alike. The Aramaic word, “ach”, encompasses the meanings for* brother of same parents, half-brother (same father), relative, kinship, same tribe, and even a fellow countryman*.**
Furthermore, there was no term for the word “cousin” in the Aramaic language that Jesus spoke. When the Old Testament was translated into Greek in the centuries before the birth of Christ (the Septuagint), the words “adelphos” and “adelphoi” were used in places where “ach” was.
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Dokimas
Guest
Thanks would be in order either way. I guess this way I should give you double thanks.a compliment of course
God bless you.
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