mary, the eternal virgin?

[elvisman]

I do not embrace the authority of the CC. God gave me senses, did He not? He did not say His church would be without shortcominings.

Seems you consider that authority which you can accept as true … for you it’s the CC.

I think it is the abbreviation of “church” to admit only the current humans alive on earth that leads to such misunderstandings.

Paul said he was chosen directly by God. Sounds familiar. Just like the other 11. Unlike Matthias.

Not a problem. It’s only a problem for those who put faith in a church and not in Jesus.
As you well know, Jesus is not weak. We are weak. He is strong in our weadness.

2Co 12:9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

It’s our problem when we think we have any strengths.

He’s still alive. Sorry you think something happened to Him.

Where are you pulling this one out of? You see, this is were it gets exasperating – you making claims about me that are UNTRUE. You get dangerously close to bearing false witness, don’t you?

Are you saying one of the names is Matthias?

 

[elvisman]

I never said God didn’t accept the choice of Matthias by the disciples. I said it wasn’t His choice.

That is a LIE.
READ Acts 1:24-25, before you make that sort of ridiculous and FALSE statement.

 

[elvisman]

I wasn’t uncalm. Best for you not to look in a mirror unless you’re willing to take your own advice.

Okay, you convinced me. Mary had children. Thanks for changing my mind.

You are correct. I do have trouble typing what’s in my head. I think faster than I type. I also can’t at times put into words what I’m thinking. Was the above clear enough to understand?

**Not clear at all. **

**You say that I am correct - that mary had children. That’s not what I said at all. She gave birth to ONE child - Jesus. **
Claims to any other children listed as “brethren of the Lord” were not Mary’s children and is, in fact, a fairytale hatched by prideful, rebellious, Post-Reformation humans who have perverted the Scriptures to their (and your) own destruction (2 Pet. 3:16).

 

[Dokimas]

Not clear at all.

You say that I am correct - that mary had children. That’s not what I said at all. She gave birth to ONE child - Jesus.
Claims to any other children listed as “brethren of the Lord” were not Mary’s children and is, in fact, a fairytale hatched by prideful, rebellious, Post-Reformation humans who have perverted the Scriptures to their (and your) own destruction (2 Pet. 3:16).

It is a scary thing to pervert the Bible. 100% agreed. I cringe at the possibility for me.

 

[elvisman]

It is a scary thing to pervert the Bible. 100% agreed. I cringe at the possibility for me.

Then stop doing it.

 

[Dokimas]

That is a LIE.
READ Acts 1:24-25, before you make that sort of ridiculous and FALSE statement.

Here’s Acts 1:24,25. Could you highlight where it say, “this is God’s choice” or something even close to this?

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

 

[elvisman]

It is a scary thing to pervert the Bible. 100% agreed. I cringe at the possibility for me.

**You’re not dodging this one like you always do, my friend. I’m NOT letting you off the hook so easy. **
Explain WHY you lied about God not having chosen Matthias in Acts 1:24-25.

 

[Dokimas]

Then stop doing it.

I’m sure I’m wrong about many things.

It is you whom I am afraid for. What would you do if you find out that some of the things you hold deara aren accurate? You are so hateful, I am fearful for you.

 

[elvisman]

Here’s Acts 1:24,25. Could you highlight where it say, “this is God’s choice” or something even close to this?

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

In RED:
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

---

You see - bad hermenutics leads to BAD theology.

 

[Dokimas]

You’re not dodging this one like you always do, my friend. I’m NOT letting you off the hook so easy.
Explain WHY you lied about God not having chosen Matthias in Acts 1:24-25.

Is it a lie to have an understanding different than you? BTW, did you miss my post asking you to verify your claim that says God chose Matthias?

 

[Dokimas]

In RED:
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

---

You see - bad hermenutics leads to BAD theology.

That was Peter’s prayer. The disciples chose two people. They cast lots. What was God to do? Suspend the lots in the air?

BTW, Peter was known for his acting too quickly. Also, this happened before the Holy Spirit was given in Acts 2.

 

[elvisman]

Is it a lie to have an understanding different than you? BTW, did you miss my post asking you to verify your claim that says God chose Matthias?

It is NOT a simple misunderstanding. The verse says emphatically that is was God’s choice.

There are only 2 explanations:
1. You simply do not have the capacity to understand what you read.
2. You refuse to accept what the text says.

 

[elvisman]

That was Peter’s prayer. The disciples chose two people. They cast lots. What was God to do? Suspend the lots in the air?

BTW, Peter was known for his acting too quickly. Also, this happened before the Holy Spirit was given in Acts 2.

WRONG.
John 20:22:
And when he (Jesus) had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit."

**GOD chose whom the lots would fall in favor of because the Apostles prayed and asked for his guidance. **So, now you believe that God doesn’t have the power to make a decision??
That is HERESY, plain and simple.

 

[Dokimas]

**It is NOT **a simple misunderstanding. The verse says emphatically that is was God’s choice.

There are only 2 explanations:
1. You simply do not have the capacity to understand what you read.
2. You refuse to accept what the text says.

So you retract you false accusation that I lied?

 

[Dokimas]

WRONG

.
John 20:22:
And when he (Jesus) had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit."

You are correct. I was incorrect. I’ll try not to make that mistake again.

That is HERESY

 

[guanophore]

I do not embrace the authority of the CC. God gave me senses, did He not? He did not say His church would be without shortcominings.

Of course He gave you senses! HE wants you to use them in His service, not to deny His very great and precious promises.

No one is asking you to embrace shortcomings, Doki. just the infallible teaching of the Apostles that has been preserved by the HS in the Church.

Seems you consider that authority which you can accept as true .... for you it's the CC.

Yes. I see that the CC is the one founded by Christ, as depicted in the NT. I choose to believe his promises to lead the Church into all Truth, and His commandment to listen to those He appointed as I listen to Him. I don’t like all of it, and sometimes I don’t agree, but I can still obey.

Paul said he was chosen directly by God. Sounds familiar. Just like the other 11. Unlike Matthias.

Clearly you seem to believe that God is limited, and is unable or unwilling to answer the prayers of Peter and the other Apostles, disciples, and his mother. Clearly you believe the millenia old tradition of casting lots is beyond His reach to use.

Not a problem. It’s only a problem for those who put faith in a church and not in Jesus.

For us, there is no separation. When Saul of Tarsus was persecuting the Church, Jesus confronted him, saying “why do you persecute me?” Jesus identifies Himself completely with His Church.

As you well know, Jesus is not weak. We are weak. He is strong in our weadness.

I think you don’t really believe this, or you would not make assertions that require him to be weak, disinterested, and unable to be strong in our weakness. Your theory requires that the weakness of men is more powerful than the ability of Christ to correct them.

2Co 12:9  And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

So, you believe this principle applies to you, but not the other Apostles? You believe Peter did not say this to the Lord while they were praying in the upper room?

It’s our problem when we think we have any strengths.

Well, you seem to believe you have the strength to deny what has been believed by the Church up to the point you came on the scene…

He’s still alive. Sorry you think something happened to Him.

Believe me, I have not asserted some sort of theory that presupposes he is not involved in His Church!

Where are you pulling this one out of? You see, this is were it gets exasperating – you making claims about me that are UNTRUE. You get dangerously close to bearing false witness, don’t you?

Please go back to the other post, or go to Acts 1, and read what the Apostles were doing in the upper room before they chose Matthias. You left these elements out of your “steps”, and implied that they did not pray before they chose him.

Are you saying one of the names is Matthias?

http://www.creatormundi.com/images/p83m_b.jpg

 

[Dokimas]

Of course He gave you senses! HE wants you to use them in His service, not to deny His very great and precious promises.

No one is asking you to embrace shortcomings, Doki. just the infallible teaching of the Apostles that has been preserved by the HS in the Church.

Yes. I see that the CC is the one founded by Christ, as depicted in the NT. I choose to believe his promises to lead the Church into all Truth, and His commandment to listen to those He appointed as I listen to Him. I don’t like all of it, and sometimes I don’t agree, but I can still obey.

Clearly you seem to believe that God is limited, and is unable or unwilling to answer the prayers of Peter and the other Apostles, disciples, and his mother. Clearly you believe the millenia old tradition of casting lots is beyond His reach to use.

For us, there is no separation. When Saul of Tarsus was persecuting the Church, Jesus confronted him, saying “why do you persecute me?” Jesus identifies Himself completely with His Church.

I think you don’t really believe this, or you would not make assertions that require him to be weak, disinterested, and unable to be strong in our weakness. Your theory requires that the weakness of men is more powerful than the ability of Christ to correct them.

So, you believe this principle applies to you, but not the other Apostles? You believe Peter did not say this to the Lord while they were praying in the upper room?

Well, you seem to believe you have the strength to deny what has been believed by the Church up to the point you came on the scene…

Believe me, I have not asserted some sort of theory that presupposes he is not involved in His Church!

Please go back to the other post, or go to Acts 1, and read what the Apostles were doing in the upper room before they chose Matthias. You left these elements out of your “steps”, and implied that they did not pray before they chose him.



http://www.creatormundi.com/images/p83m_b.jpg

It’s hard to continue reading you because you continue to tell me what I think and believe. It’s not your place or business to speak for me. I would appreciate it if you’d stop doing so. I’ll thank you in advance.

 

[guanophore]

I never said God didn’t accept the choice of Matthias by the disciples. I said it wasn’t His choice. God is gracious and merciful. He takes our mistakes and if our hearts are after Him, He uses them for His glory. He said David was a man after His heart. David was quite a sinner. One sin was murder and one adultery. Sinful choices. David married the woman he commited adultery with. They bore Solomon. God uses our mistakes.

Are you suggesting that the Apostles committed a sin by praying then using lots to select Matthias? Can you explain what sin that was?

Can you explain why the HS allowed Luke to continue to write about Matthias as if he were one of the Apsotles selected by God?

Can you explain how the Church could not be corrected by Christ until you came along?

  There you go again.  As anyone who understands the Bible even a little bit knows the Holy Spirit doesn't make mistakes.  We, the followers of God, are the ones that make mistakes.  I'm glad to correct you again.

Well, please continue to correct me. It seems that you are in a better postition to correct me that Jesus is to correct His Church. He was unable to convince them that Saul of Tarsus was His choice for the replacement of Judas.

 

[guanophore]

It’s hard to continue reading you because you continue to tell me what I think and believe. It’s not your place or business to speak for me. I would appreciate it if you’d stop doing so. I’ll thank you in advance.

You are right, I can only go by your posts. It appears that you think and believe these things. I explained why it comes across this way using the condition espression “for your theory to be true…” and followed it by citing the conditions necessary for your assertions to be correct.

 

[Dokimas]

I wonder what could be said for someone’s argument that includes personal ‘attacks’?

Anyone want to weigh in?