Mary the mediatrix

[NDfan]

Are there Rcc teachers on record as actually saying, "No one can enter into heaven except through Mary, as entering through a gate.”??? I dare you to tell me there are!

Not sure what your question is here but Bonaventure is quoted as saying this very statement.

 

[withwind]

I disagree.

What did you disagree on?

well, I can’t disagree the fact that I come to Jesus through Mary, and I continue to ask Her to lead me to Jesus daily. The more, I have realized, that I love Mother Mary, the more I love Jesus.

Jesus allowed Himself to be taken care of Mother Mary, I am too happy to let Her take care of me.

Simply put: I am trying to do what Jesus has done.

 

[SIA]

What did you disagree on?

well, I can’t disagree the fact that I come to Jesus through Mary, and I continue to ask Her to lead me to Jesus daily. The more, I have realized, that I love Mother Mary, the more I love Jesus.

Jesus allowed Himself to be taken care of Mother Mary, I am too happy to let Her take care of me.

Simply put: I am trying to do what Jesus has done.

Mary can pray with you but nobody needs her to to pray to God for them in an exclusive fashion as if he cannot hear their prayers or understand them.

Where does Scripture say that because Jesus came to us through Mary, we must go to Jesus through Mary? That’s just a play on words.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Not sure what your question is here but Bonaventure is quoted as saying this very statement.

Yes, and taken out of context. St. Boneventure also said that Jesus is the author and teacher of all graces.

I don’t know how many times it can be explained that Mary takes nothing from Jesus, as it is Catholic belief and teaching that all comes from God.

Honestly, if I believed otherwise I would not be a Catholic.

 

[SIA]

I don’t know how many times it can be explained that Mary takes nothing from Jesus, as it is Catholic belief and teaching that all comes from God.

This is just merely what Catholics say. It certainly doesn’t make it true.

 

[RebeccaJ]

This is just merely what Catholics say. It certainly doesn’t make it true.

St. Boneventure statement is believed. Unless what he said doesn’t match to what you want to believe about Catholics, then, it is just words.

Pointless conversation.

 

[SIA]

St. Boneventure statement is believed. Unless what he said doesn’t match to what you want to believe about Catholics, then, it is just words.

Pointless conversation.

Uhh, What???

 

[NDfan]

Yes, and taken out of context. St. Boneventure also said that Jesus is the author and teacher of all graces.

I don’t know how many times it can be explained that Mary takes nothing from Jesus, as it is Catholic belief and teaching that all comes from God.

Honestly, if I believed otherwise I would not be a Catholic.

It’s not taken out of context and it has nothing to do with his statement of us entering Heaven through Mary. Trust me after being in the Catholic church for over 40 years I’m intimate with their teachings. You may say that Mary takes nothing from Jesus but the church believes she holds a special intercessory power that’s over and above anyone. Please show that to me in scripture other than the terrible example of the wedding feast at Cana.

 

[NDfan]

St. Boneventure statement is believed. Unless what he said doesn’t match to what you want to believe about Catholics, then, it is just words.

Pointless conversation.

So Rebecca you just confirmed what I stated about Bonaventure. You believe the only way to Heaven is through Mary

 

[RebeccaJ]

It’s not taken out of context and it has nothing to do with his statement of us entering Heaven through Mary. Trust me after being in the Catholic church for over 40 years I’m intimate with their teachings. You may say that Mary takes nothing from Jesus but the church believes she holds a special intercessory power that’s over and above anyone. Please show that to me in scripture other than the terrible example of the wedding feast at Cana.

It has everything to do with what you are saying. If you are going to look at what a man believes, then you should look at all of his writings as a whole. Otherwise, you will do nothing but create a caricature which has nothing to do with truth.

If you were Catholic for 40 years then you are well aware that Catholics are not sola scriptura.

Seems you have decided that prooftexting is the way to truth. Good luck.

 

[SIA]

It’s not taken out of context and it has nothing to do with his statement of us entering Heaven through Mary. Trust me after being in the Catholic church for over 40 years I’m intimate with their teachings. You may say that Mary takes nothing from Jesus but the church believes she holds a special intercessory power that’s over and above anyone. Please show that to me in scripture other than the terrible example of the wedding feast at Cana.

Great point NDfan. I’d like to see that as well.

 

[NDfan]

It has everything to do with what you are saying. If you are going to look at what a man believes, then you should look at all of his writings as a whole. Otherwise, you will do nothing but create a caricature which has nothing to do with truth.

If you were Catholic for 40 years then you are well aware that Catholics are not sola scriptura.

Seems you have decided that prooftexting is the way to truth. Good luck.

Yes I’m aware that the RC is not SS. That’s why I don’t attend the RC anymore. Doctrines of Faith can only come from scripture. And I don’t need your wish of good luck. Luck has nothing to do with Christ.

As far as proof texting scripture no one is better at that than the RC herself.

With regard to Bonaventure I do look at his writings as a whole But that does not dismiss his statement about Mary as the way to Heaven. You somehow want to validate it because he may have said some other things that are true implying that some true statements translate into complete truth

 

[FCEGM]

From the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church.

Quote:

1. There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, “for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all”.(298) The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power. For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ.

That is an important quote, Eucharisted, and even some Catholics need to be reminded of Mary’s role in our salvation - by God’s divine pleasure, not out of necessity. Her role is often wrongly underplayed in an attempt to help Protestants, while all the more confusing them.

 

[M0nkey]

As far as I know, I searched in my catechism and not a single mention of the word ‘mediatrix’ I found. Unless the Church explicitly explains it and rewrites the catechism to amend it, there is no need to look into this. I think people are getting worked up over this for nothing.

 

[Good_Fella]

It’s not taken out of context and it has nothing to do with his statement of us entering Heaven through Mary. Trust me after being in the Catholic church for over 40 years I’m intimate with their teachings. You may say that Mary takes nothing from Jesus but the church believes she holds a special intercessory power that’s over and above anyone. Please show that to me in scripture other than the terrible example of the wedding feast at Cana.

Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. Let it be done to me according to your word.”
Luke 1, 38

God decreed that our salvation should require free human collaboration with him, since Adam and Eve freely chose to disobey God and incur mankind’s fall from grace. God could have redeemed us by some path other than the Incarnation, but it’s clear God willed otherwise. God did not depend on Mary’s free consent, but he chose Mary to be the mother of his Only-begotten Son because he knew Mary would say “Yes” to his will just as we should if we hope to be saved. God’s gift of salvation hasn’t been super-imposed on us for God doesn’t necessarily have to save us. But in his love and wisdom God desires that everyone be saved. And the only way we can be saved is to freely return his love by observing his word. Thus Elizabeth joyfully exclaims:

“And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For at the moment the ‘sound of your greeting’ reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.” Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled."
Luke 1, 43-45

Mary is praised for her faith, which in order to be genuine must be based on a free love of God. Through Mary’s faith our Saviour came into the world. Her mediatory role in God’s plan of salvation is depicted in the imagery of the sound of Mary’s greeting which connects the child in her womb with the child in her cousin’s womb. Mary is our most powerful advocate among the saints in the order of grace, for she has given us the Source of All Grace himself through the divine gift of her Divine Maternity.

 

[SteveGC]

For those who refute the intercessory role of Mary, please keep in mind when you debate the issue that you first fully understand the teaching.

Seems to me you would love for us to admit that Mary is the source of grace and salvation. Ever wonder why you can’t get a Catholic to ever admit that?

Because no one believes that. No one was ever taught that. Because it’s not a part of the Church’s Deposit of Faith.

Now, this may not help any skeptic either, but for what it’s worth, here’s some help on the actual teaching…read it only if you are truly attempting to understand it from the Church’s perspective. If you are only interested in claming that Catholics think Mary is at the same level of Jesus, and is the source of our salvation, then skip this and go ahead with your ranting.

Making Peace with the Mediatrix

God Bless

 

[SIA]

Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. Let it be done to me according to your word.”
Luke 1, 38

God decreed that our salvation should require free human collaboration with him, since Adam and Eve freely chose to disobey God and incur mankind’s fall from grace. God could have redeemed us by some path other than the Incarnation, but it’s clear God willed otherwise. God did not depend on Mary’s free consent, but he chose Mary to be the mother of his Only-begotten Son because he knew Mary would say “Yes” to his will just as we should if we hope to be saved. God’s gift of salvation hasn’t been super-imposed on us for God doesn’t necessarily have to save us. But in his love and wisdom God desires that everyone be saved. And the only way we can be saved is to freely return his love by observing his word. Thus Elizabeth joyfully exclaims:

“And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For at the moment the ‘sound of your greeting’ reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.” Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled."
Luke 1, 43-45

Mary is praised for her faith, which in order to be genuine must be based on a free love of God. Through Mary’s faith our Saviour came into the world. Her mediatory role in God’s plan of salvation is depicted in the imagery of the sound of Mary’s greeting which connects the child in her womb with the child in her cousin’s womb. Mary is our most powerful advocate among the saints in the order of grace, for she has given us the Source of All Grace himself through the divine gift of her Divine Maternity.

NDfan doesn’t need to be chastized by this rhetoric that’s been way played out. Most all Christians agree that Mary’s resounding “yes” was not only special but also historic. But, let’s keep it all in perspective. To keep spending this much effort and time on Mary is certainly taking attention and time away from the one who ALONE is our crystal fountain of faith and the one who is our Salvation, Jesus Christ. Unless Mary is to be worshipped along with God and is divine as God is, putting this much into the understanding of who she was and is is plainly ridiculous.

 

[John7]

As far as I know, I searched in my catechism and not a single mention of the word ‘mediatrix’ I found. Unless the Church explicitly explains it and rewrites the catechism to amend it, there is no need to look into this. I think people are getting worked up over this for nothing.

Found only1

969
“This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”

 

[nbtb1348]

Great point NDfan. I’d like to see that as well.

Yeh, that quote turns my stomach and it is an abomination. The RCC really comes out of the closet when they reveal their teaching on Mary in this way. “Mediatrix!” Make no mistake about it, it IS worship. And it is idolatry. How could you NOT worship someone like that? They are obssessed with her, and I will say it again, MARY IS MORE POPULAR THAN JESUS. Prove me wrong. I’ll bet her name is mentioned in prayers more than His, I’ll bet more is said about her than about Him, and she simply is more popular than Jesus in the Roman Church. And my friend, let that fact tell you a whole lot more about the supposed authority and superiority of the RCC. Let it pull back the curtain and reveal why their understanding of salvation by grace is so anemic, why they inject works and fear into their religion. It is because they do not understand the majesty of Christ in His person and His work on the cross.

Scripture never even comes close to elevating Mary in this way, nor did the apostles. To assign any salvific value to her is unspeakable. Take heed and learn from this error! This system has nothing to do with the salvation at the cross that God planned in eternity past.

*"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. **But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! ***As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! "-Galatians 1

 

[Peter_J]

Cool. But why have soome popes taught this - surely if the pope teaches it then the catholic faithful are expected to follow suit, or are catholics free to ignore the teachings of the pope?

No, I wouldn’t say “free to ignore”; but it is important to keep in mind that not every statement the Pope makes is infallible. (If he makes an ex cathedra statement, then that is of course infallible.)