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elvisman
Guest
It means BOTH.
You were nit-picking so as to take the attention off of the fact that the Church declared Mary the God-Bearer.
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You were nit-picking so as to take the attention off of the fact that the Church declared Mary the God-Bearer.
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elvisman
Guest
Hank Hanagraaf - an Evangelical apologist (radio’s, “The Bible Answer Man”) made this very true statement:I see, so even though Jesus is God, therefore Mary is the Mother of God, and God is the Father, Mary is not the Mother of the Father.
And if do not believe in the Title “Mother of God”, then I am accusing Jesus of just being a temple…How logic like this does not sound confusing is beyond me. How we made the leap into a title is essential to the nature of Jesus is way beyond my intelligence. Sounds like you need a Doctorate in the theology of tongue linguistics. and fuzzy logic.
I am glad the Gospel is much simpler to understand and I do not need all this.
1 Cor 1
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe
"Virtually every heresy begins with the misconception of the nature of God."
He then went on to defend the Hypostatic Union of Jesus and destroy the very Nestorian Heresy that you cling to.
Your not wrong because you won’t take MY word for it. You’re wrong because you spiritual pride won’t allow you to believe that Mary is Theotokos - “The God Bearer” - to the point that you deny the Hypostatic Union of Jesus Christ.
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elvisman
Guest
The only Church established by Jesus Christ - the Catholic Church.What is a truly authoritative source to you?
(Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23, 1 Tim. 3:15)
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Rachel_Malloy
Guest
Please get back on track or this thread will be closed. Thank you.
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rbarcia
Guest
I have no clue what you are talking about. The title has nothing to do with the nature of God and Jesus. This is just lies meant to force a belief that is ridiculous.Hank Hanagraaf - an Evangelical apologist (radio’s, “The Bible Answer Man”) made this very true statement:
"Virtually every heresy begins with the misconception of the nature of God."
He then went on to defend the Hypostatic Union of Jesus and destroy the very Nestorian Heresy that you cling to.
Your not wrong because you won’t take MY word for it. You’re wrong because you spiritual pride won’t allow you to believe that Mary is Theotokos - “The God Bearer” - to the point that you deny the Hypostatic Union of Jesus Christ.
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elvisman
Guest
Lies?I have no clue what you are talking about. The title has nothing to do with the nature of God and Jesus. This is just lies meant to force a belief that is ridiculous.
You see - that’s another reason you’re wrong - because you depend on your own opinions instead of appealing to history.
HISTORY tells us ythat the 1st Council of Ephesus (431) was convened to combat the Nestorian Heresy and define the nature of Christ.
Like I said before, Nestorius held that Jesus was only a man and was merely a “Temple” of God. The Patriarch of Alexandria, St. Cyril, asked the Church to convene a council to charge Nestorius with heresy.****
There, they defined the Doctrine of the Hypostatic Union of Jesus and declared Mary, Theotokos (God Bearer).
You can call it whatever you want - but it’s ALL fact.
In short - you’re wrong and Christ’s Church is right.
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rbarcia
Guest
Not my opinion. The Bible tells us that Mary is the mother of Jesus. It says nothing more. She is a blessed woman. A child of God. A beloved Christian. Nothing more.Lies?
You see - that’s another reason you’re wrong - because you depend on your own opinions instead of appealing to history.
HISTORY tells us ythat the 1st Council of Ephesus (431) was convened to combat the Nestorian Heresy and define the nature of Christ.
Like I said before, Nestorius held that Jesus was only a man and was merely a “Temple**” of God. The Patriarch of Alexandria, St. Cyril, asked the Church to convene a council to charge Nestorius with heresy.**
There, they defined the Doctrine of the Hypostatic Union of Jesus and declared Mary, Theotokos (God Bearer).
You can call it whatever you want - but it’s ALL fact.
In short - you’re wrong and Christ’s Church is right.
**
Luke 11
27As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
28He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
**
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elvisman
Guest
And this is only further evidence of Mary’s holiness and being set apart. Luke 11:27-28 is not an indictoment of Mary as anti-Cahtolics choose to believe - it was a reassurance of her obedience and holiness.Not my opinion. The Bible tells us that Mary is the mother of Jesus. It says nothing more. She is a blessed woman. A child of God. A beloved Christian. Nothing more.
Luke 11
27As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you."
28He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
**This wasn’t an insult against his mother. It was a commendation because Mary’s example is the fact that she heard the word of God and kept it by doing His will. **Jesus chose he from all of the women in history to be his mother.
This passage only serves to bolster the Catholic position on Mary.
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: It does indeed, unless you believe Jesus is just a man only or just God only and not BOTH God AND man at the same time. Jesus is one person with two natures, one nature is God and the other nature is man, they are united in the one person of Jesus Christ.I have no clue what you are talking about. The title has nothing to do with the nature of God and Jesus. This is just lies meant to force a belief that is ridiculous.
John one tells us, the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD and the WORD BECAME FLESH. Now if the Word was God and that Word BECAME flesh and Mary gave birth to that ONE PERSON the Word=God made flesh=man, who is now BOTH God and man. Then she gave birth to God the Word or Son in time not in eternity. Mary is not mother of the Father nor the Holy Spirit as they did not BECOME man, only the Son the Word=God become flesh=man. As God the Word has existed from all eternity, Mary is not the the Mother of the Word from all eternity, only Mother of the Word=God made flesh=man in time.
[Jn1:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that JESUS CHRIST HAS COME IN THE FLESH is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.]
As a Catholic I know Jesus is God and God became flesh=man, God born of the virgin Mary, mother of God made flesh.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Well said. As it is customery in the US Army, I offer you this Army coin for you good explanation of defending the basic teaching concerning who Jesus is and Mary’s relationship to her son.JL: It does indeed, unless you believe Jesus is just a man only or just God only and not BOTH God AND man at the same time. Jesus is one person with two natures, one nature is God and the other nature is man, they are united in the one person of Jesus Christ.
John one tells us, the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD and the WORD BECAME FLESH. Now if the Word was God and that Word BECAME flesh and Mary gave birth to that ONE PERSON the Word=God made flesh=man, who is now BOTH God and man. Then she gave birth to God the Word or Son in time not in eternity. Mary is not mother of the Father nor the Holy Spirit as they did not BECOME man, only the Son the Word=God become flesh=man. As God the Word has existed from all eternity, Mary is not the the Mother of the Word from all eternity, only Mother of the Word=God made flesh=man in time.
[Jn1:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that JESUS CHRIST HAS COME IN THE FLESH is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.]
As a Catholic I know Jesus is God and God became flesh=man, God born of the virgin Mary, mother of God made flesh.
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AmericanJosiah
Guest
Well, the largest group of Protestants agree with it. It’s a Lutheran position.What do Protestants have say about Martin Luther’s statement calling Mary the Mother of God?
.
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: Thanks Mannyfit, I in return will pray for you and all those serving our country. God Bless you.Well said. As it is customery in the US Army, I offer you this Army coin for you good explanation of defending the basic teaching concerning who Jesus is and Mary’s relationship to her son.
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jimmy
Guest
I have no clue what you are talking about. The title has nothing to do with the nature of God and Jesus. This is just lies meant to force a belief that is ridiculous.
I see, so even though Jesus is God, therefore Mary is the Mother of God, and God is the Father, Mary is not the Mother of the Father.
Jesus is God therefore Mary is the mother of God. You want to divide Christ so that there is God and the man Jesus. Consequently Mary is the mother of the man Jesus only. But the fact is that there is absolute unity in Christ and the divinity and humanity are absolutely united without division. The Word was made flesh and tabernacled among us. The Word actually became created.And if do not believe in the Title “Mother of God”, then I am accusing Jesus of just being a temple…How logic like this does not sound confusing is beyond me. How we made the leap into a title is essential to the nature of Jesus is way beyond my intelligence. Sounds like you need a Doctorate in the theology of tongue linguistics. and fuzzy logic.
The logic is straight forward. Mary concieved and gave birth to one person, either that person was God or it wasn’t. You want to say that Mary is not the mother of God and you are consequently saying that Mary did not concieve and give birth to God. If this is the case then Jesus is not God; he is simply an inspired man. You have set up some division between Jesus and God so that there can be no unity. You want to say ‘all it says is Mary is the mother of Jesus’.
There is no division in Christ; He is not schitzophrenic. You can’t look at Christ and say 'here is man and there is God". No, they are absolutely one. God became man. Jesus is God the Son.
You have no reason to reject Mary as the mother of God, and in fact all the evidence points to it as true. The scriptures say clearly that Jesus is God and they also say clearly that Mary is the mother of Jesus. You rest on your own opinion in denying that Mary is the mother of God because the scriptures make no such denial. The scriptures actually affirm it explicitly several times by refering to Mary as the mother of Jesus or the mother of the Lord.
The only way that bringing the Father into this discussion even affects the discussion is if you deny the doctrine of the Trinity and become some form of modalist in which there is no distinction between the Father and the Son. In modalism the Son is simply another way that the Father has expressed Himself in history. It is actually the Father who became man.
If you will not admit that Mary is the mother of God then you are simply a Nestorian heretic. You want to make Christ into some inspired man.
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Melkite_Sword
Guest
No she is not the mother of the Father, she is the Mother of God the Son (unless you follow the heresy of modalism), the eternal Logos/ Word BECAME flesh in Mary’s womb, hence what Elizabeth said: ‘Who am I that the Mother of my Lord should come to me’. This verse also makes us wonder, is Jesus Lord simply because of his humanity or his divinity?I see, so even though Jesus is God, therefore Mary is the Mother of God, and God is the Father, Mary is not the Mother of the Father.
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