Mary- 'The Mother of God'

[Betterave]

I will never believe in a ‘beginningless creature’.

Neither will I, I suppose - but that is no argument for the claim that a ‘beginningless creature’ is not possible! Perhaps you are too hasty to think you understand what God Almighty is incapable of.

Since it -]comes /-] did not come (ex hypothesi) from non-existence into existence it -]changed /-] did not change -]and its change is the beginning/-]. Anything that was created has a**[n ontological]** beginning (an act of origination, whether eternal or not, from the Creator). All islamic scholars do not agree with Ibn Rushd’s philosophies. [Obviously!] Something that the Creator brought into existence is its beginning, its period of time. Ibn Rushd will have to bring his evidence from the revelation to hold the opinion that he has i.e., that the world is beginningless. **[He does bring his evidence from the revelation, in order to show that his view is *compatible **with revelation.]

Being created does in fact mean ‘brought into existence’ [whether eternally, in either sense of the term, or just for a time]. That means if something does not exist it is non existent. You disagreed with this definition…
…]
This is self contradicting. If it doesn’t have a beginning, then it cannot be ordained, because it is not preceded by nonexistence. ‘Being preceded by nonexistence’ is not a necessary condition for ‘being ordained,’ any more than it is for ‘being created.’]

Perhaps you should study some of your own Islamic philosophers, such as Ibn Rushd, even if you disagree with them. Then you will be able to understand these issues better and present better arguments for your belief. Salaam alaikum.

 

[Betterave]

SoA, does it say in your revelation that God is incapable of eternally (without beginning or end) creating something; that an eternal act of creating is impossible for God? I think it does not. Please correct me if I am wrong and tell me where it says this.

 

[Betterave]

Just because I said that Allaah is not physically everywhere does not mean He is not able to control His creation. You are thinking of Allaah in terms of how we know things to be and this is wrong. Allaah does not need to be in a place in order to control whatever is in that place. Allaah is in control of everything.

“In conclusion Allah is not a god. There is no god only Allah. Allah is the proper name of our Creator. Allah is infinite, because where ever we turn there is the Face of Allah. There are some Muslims who will argue that Allah is not everywhere. After providing the proof from the Holy Quran (Chapter 2 verse 115) if they still dispute that Allah is not everywhere then they have rejected the Word of Allah. Only Allah Knows Best!”

meem.freeuk.com/Kalima.html

 

[tonyrey]

7:54 Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days,
‘days’ here should be translated as ‘long periods’.

So Creation is not continuous? Once things are created they must continue to exist independently “under their own steam”. This suggests that God controls things remotely but is not “with” them or “in” them…

In fact, when it comes to the miracles of the Messengers, one wisdom behind Allaah supporting His Messengers with miracles is to be a proof either to motivate and influence the people that that particular messenger is authentic or to be a proof against them-proving their disbelief on the Day of Judgment.

Does God answer the prayers of ordinary people and work miracles for them?

Allaah does what He Wills. This means if He does not want to love something, He won’t and if He does, He will. Him loving His creation is not obligatory upon Him.

How can God not love something He has created?

Allaah appreciates goodness and rewards believers and non believers for their good deeds. He provides rain etc for the disbeliever and the believer. The believer and disbeliever get rewarded for their works in this life. However there is a difference. The disbeliever’s reward is restricted to this life while the believer’s rewards are not. The believer gets rewarded in the next life as well.

We share your belief in paradise and hell but you seem to believe we are all isolated individuals - that nothing we do for others has an effect on their destiny. All our prayers for them are useless. Even if we suffer and sacrifice our lives for them it won’t make the slightest difference for them on Day of Reckoning. So for you the pain and death of Jesus on the Cross must have been in vain as far as everyone else is concerned…

After Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) was sent and raised to the heavens, Allaah revealed the Qur’an and in the Qur’an we are commanded to believe in and follow Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

How much of the teaching of Jesus do Muslims accept? Do they believe He was mistaken in any way?

The unforgiving sin is Shirk i.e., where one associates partners with Allaah. This can be a person, statute, angels, even themselves. No one who commits this type of Shirk can enter paradise and this means they are not Muslims.

4:48 Allaah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.

So you believe all Christians who believe in the Holy Trinity go to hell? And only Muslims enter paradise?

 

[SonofAdam]

SoA, does it say in your revelation that God is incapable of eternally (without beginning or end) creating something; that an eternal act of creating is impossible for God? I think it does not. Please correct me if I am wrong and tell me where it says this.

Man you seem to be a very arrogant person. How you cross words out and add what you want it to say is ridiculous.

Question: If something is ‘eternally created’, doesn’t he share this attribute(without beginning and without end) with Allaah?

 

[TEPO]

Mary is the mother of the physical body of Jesus who is the Word made Flesh (God).

When people deny this, they are blinded by faith in their traditions and a mechanical worship style, that God has asked His children to abandon.

 

[SonofAdam]

“In conclusion Allah is not a god. There is no god only Allah. Allah is the proper name of our Creator. Allah is infinite, because where ever we turn there is the Face of Allah. There are some Muslims who will argue that Allah is not everywhere. After providing the proof from the Holy Quran (Chapter 2 verse 115) if they still dispute that Allah is not everywhere then they have rejected the Word of Allah. Only Allah Knows Best!”

meem.freeuk.com/Kalima.html

If he means ‘literally’ then this is a statement of kufr/disbelief. Maybe he is just ignorant. Allaah knows best. Imam Al Bayhaqi said:

“About the meaning of the verse <Wheresoever you turn, there is Allaah’s countenance> (2:115) al Muzani related that al-Shafi’i* said it means ''the direction which Allaah has made you face.” Mujahid* said: “It is the direction Allaah ordered to face for prayer, so that whereever you are, in the East or the West, you must not face other than it.”

• Imam al-Shafi’i is from the time of the Salaf us Salih(righteous predecessors) and Mujahid is the student of Ibn 'Abas the companion of Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings be upon him).

Who is Khalid M. Malik Ghouri anyway? Is he an authority on Islam, let alone Tafsir sciences?..doubt it.

 

[Betterave]

Man you seem to be a very arrogant person. How you cross words out and add what you want it to say is ridiculous.

Question: If something is ‘eternally created’, doesn’t he share this attribute(without beginning and without end) with Allaah?

God will judge between us. You do not know what you are talking about and you refuse to accept correction. I cross things out to help you to understand but you apparently do not want to understand. You will be the loser on the Day of Judgment.

To answer your question:
All creatures exist. God exists. Of course we share attributes. Both God and creatures are not nothing. That doesn’t mean we are the same or that we have the same essence. Learn some humility you son of Adam. Attributes are not the same as Essence. When you reflect on God’s attributes do not imagine that you are contemplating Allah’s Essence. This is not possible for humans. You, as a Muslim, should know that. If you disagree with something I say, please go ahead and cross it out and clarify what you believe; that’s a perfectly legitimate way to communicate your point of view. Do not call me arrogant for trying to help you to understand.

Remember:
Allah does not love those who do not put things in their due place and proper perspective, and act wrongfully, unjustly, tyrannically, or wickedly [3:57, 3:140, 42:40]

Allah does not love those who exhibit unjustifiable pride, self-conceit, or vanity arising from some imaginary or fancied excellence in themselves; and those who consider themselves great as of the most excellent of the creation and as having privileges which others have not, and act proudly, haughtily or insolently[4:36, 31:18, 57:27, 16:23]

If you do not listen to others in this world, you will surely listen on the Day of Judgment. You will surely submit to the Almighty on that day.

 

[Betterave]

If he means ‘literally’ then this is a statement of kufr/disbelief. Maybe he is just ignorant. Allaah knows best. Imam Al Bayhaqi said:

“About the meaning of the verse <Wheresoever you turn, there is Allaah’s countenance> (2:115) al Muzani related that al-Shafi’i* said it means ''the direction which Allaah has made you face.” Mujahid* said: “It is the direction Allaah ordered to face for prayer, so that whereever you are, in the East or the West, you must not face other than it.”

• Imam al-Shafi’i is from the time of the Salaf us Salih(righteous predecessors) and Mujahid is the student of Ibn 'Abas the companion of Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings be upon him).

Who is Khalid M. Malik Ghouri anyway? Is he an authority on Islam, let alone Tafsir sciences?..doubt it.

Again, I have to assume that English is not your first language, and/or that the translation you offer of the verse in question is a very poor one. The interpretations you offer are senseless if the translation is accurate.

I don’t know who the gentleman in question is (your Muslim brother) but I will guess that you, whoever you are, are no more an authority than he? Who are you, if I may ask?

 

[SonofAdam]

So Creation is not continuous? Once things are created they must continue to exist independently “under their own steam”. This suggests that God controls things remotely but is not “with” them or “in” them…

Again, Allaah doesn’t have to be in a place in order for Him to be in control of it. Allaah is with His creation by His Knowledge and Power. He sent us Messengers(peace be upon them all) to help guide the people in order to save them from Shaytan(satan). He doesn’t have to become His own creation in order to solve their problems. If somone owns a computer and it happens to break, the programmer of the computer has an instruction manuel to help solve any problems. Even if I was the programmer, would I have to become a computer in order to fix it; of course not; I already have knowledge about what I built. The instruction manuels for the Children of Adam(peace be upon him) are the guidance of the Messengers and their teachings that were sent by Allaah, The Most Gracious. Allaah told Adam and Hawwaa(Eve peace be upon them both) after they were thrown out of the garden:

***"…Then if there comes to you guidance from Me, then whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery." ***20-123

Does God answer the prayers of ordinary people and work miracles for them?

Yes He excepts prayers. People use the word ‘miracle’ in a very broad way. Can you kindly explain what you mean by it?

How can God not love something He has created?

Why does He have to in the first place?

We share your belief in paradise and hell but you seem to believe we are all isolated individuals - that nothing we do for others has an effect on their destiny. All our prayers for them are useless. Even if we suffer and sacrifice our lives for them it won’t make the slightest difference for them on Day of Reckoning.

Re-read my other post please.

So for you the pain and death of Jesus on the Cross must have been in vain as far as everyone else is concerned…

We don’t believe that Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) died or was crucified in the first place. He was conspired against and Allaah protected him from the tyrants of his day and was ascended into the heavens. We also believe in his second coming. Allaah The All Knowing has said [from translation]

43:61*** And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.***

In fact Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings be upon him) informed us that two angels will accompany him and his hands will be on them, descending from the heavens to Damascus. He will be brought to the white minaret(usually the tallest part of a Masjid or Mosque) on the eastern side of Damasus. When the Prophet(peace be upon him) said this, there was no masjid(mosque) in Damascus at the time nor was the minaret white; it is now. I have even heard that the major scholar and historian Ibn Kathir said that the christians were the ones who financed the making of the white minaret; how ironic is that! Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings be upon him) even told us that Jesus would be wearing two garments slightly dyed with a saffron/yellowish type color.

Shaykh Muhammad Hassan talks about the Descent of Jesus(peace be upon him)
youtube.com/watch?v=KycN_2ZDJr8&feature=related -Part 1

How much of the teaching of Jesus do Muslims accept? Do they believe He was mistaken in any way?

We believe that he taught the people that he was only a Messenger sent to the Children of Isra’eel since they deviated from the path of Moses(peace be upon him) and that he taught that Allaah was One and that it was forbidden for someone to be worshipped other than Him; that he performed miracles, not on his own accord, but by the Power of Allaah.

1. O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, (“Be!” - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: “Three (trinity)!” Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is AllSufficient as a Disposer of affairs.*

So you believe all Christians who believe in the Holy Trinity go to hell? And only Muslims enter paradise?

I thought I already made this clear in my other post? Was it not? If the Message of Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) has reached the person and they die rejecting it, they will be in the hellfire.

(And whoever seeks religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers) (3:85).

This statement by Ibn `Abbas indicates that Allah does not accept any deed or work from anyone, unless it conforms to the Law of Muhammad that is, after Allah sent Muhammad . Before that, every person who followed the guidance of his own Prophet was on the correct path, following the correct guidance and was saved. {Tafsir Ibn Kathir}

 

[TEPO]

Again, Allaah doesn’t have to be in a place in order for Him to be in control of it. Allaah is with His creation by His Knowledge and Power. He sent us Messengers(peace be upon them all) to help guide the people in order to save them from Shaytan(satan). He doesn’t have to become His own creation in order to solve their problems. If a computer broke and I’m the one who invented the computer, do I have to become a computer in order to fix it? No! I’m the programmer and I have made the computer myself and I have a instruction manuel for it. The instruction manuels for the Children of Adam(peace be upon him) are the guidance of the Messengers and their teachings that were sent by Allaah, The Most Gracious. Allaah told Adam and Hawwaa(Eve peace be upon them both) after they were thrown out of the garden:

Does the Koran say that Allah will never work through a man?
If not, then why can’t He?

We don’t believe that Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) died or was crucified in the first place. He was conspired against and Allaah protected him from the tyrants of his day. We also believe in his second coming.

So Allah tricked the people into thinking that the man on the cross was Jesus, when it was actually someone else?

Who was the man who died on the cross then?

We believe that he taught the people that he was only a Messenger sent to the Children of Isra’eel since they deviated from the path of Moses(peace be upon him) and that he taught that Allaah was One and that it was forbidden for someone to be worshipped other than Him; that he performed miracles, not on his own accord, but by the Power of Allaah.

John 8:56-59
“Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad. So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.” So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.”

 

[SonofAdam]

Before answering any other questions: We do not believe in your bible; unless it affirms with something in the Qur’an.

 

[TEPO]

Before answering any other questions: We do not believe in your bible; unless it affirms with something in the Qur’an.

Yes I am aware, as we do not believe in the Qur’an…

 

[TEPO]

But actually, I dont believe that any book can contain all of what God is. The complete essence of God cannot be transcribed into symbols, and then re-transcribed into our minds…

Therefore, no book can give us a complete understanding of God.

 

[SonofAdam]

Does the Koran say that Allah will never work through a man?
If not, then why can’t He?

What is your intention behind the words ‘work through a man’ ?

So Allah tricked the people into thinking that the man on the cross was Jesus, when it was actually someone else?

Who was the man who died on the cross then?

From what I am aware of is that their are two opinions. The person who died was either Judas because he was an agent working with the corrupt tyrants and this was his punishment for partnering up with them. Or it was one of Jesus’s true and loyal disciples who sacraficed himself for the cause. Not all early christians believed that Jesus died. Whoever it was, it wasn’t Jesus and the person who died was made to look like Jesus. So the disbelievers were duped. They plotted to murder him simply because he was calling to Monotheism and did not compromise his beliefs to please the rulers and the corrupt Rabbis at the time.

John 8:56-59
“Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad. So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.” So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.”

ok?

Jesus was also reported to have said: “My father is greater than I” Jn 14:28

 

[TEPO]

What is your intention behind the word ‘work through a man’ ?

From what I am aware of is that their are two opinions. The person who died was either Judas because he was an agent working with the corrupt tyrants and this was his punishment for partnering up with them. Or it was one of Jesus’s true and loyal disciples who sacraficed himself for the cause. Not all early christians believed that Jesus died.

John 8:56-59
“Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad. So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.” So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.”

ok?

Jesus was also reported to have said: “My father is greater than I” Jn 14:28

Yes, because Jesus was only half God… Half man.

 

[SonofAdam]

But actually, I dont believe that any book can contain all of what God is. The complete essence of God cannot be transcribed into symbols, and then re-transcribed into our minds…

Therefore, no book can give us a complete understanding of God.

Allaah gives us enough information in His Books about Himself and sufficient information for the guidance of the Children of Adam(peace be upon him). The Messengers are the embodiment of the Books that were revealed to them and we relate to them because they are not more than human beings. Therefore they are the practical example of what was revealed to them and the people take them as role models.

3:79-80 ***It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the prophetic office, should say to people: “Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah’s”: on the contrary (He would say) "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all: For ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly. Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for Lords and patrons. What! would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (To Allah in Islam)? ***

 

[Vile_Servant]

Before answering any other questions: We do not believe in your bible; unless it affirms with something in the Qur’an.

Dear SonofAdam,

The Quran (the word of Allah) teaches that hell is eternal. But the prophet Muhammad taught that hell is temporary.

Who is right?

Blessings and peace.

 

[TEPO]

What is your intention behind the words ‘work through a man’ ?

Jesus is not completely God, because he was “of the flesh”… So therefore, Jesus was half God, and half man… Jesus had two natures, which is the official Christian position.

From what I am aware of is that their are two opinions. The person who died was either Judas because he was an agent working with the corrupt tyrants and this was his punishment for partnering up with them. Or it was one of Jesus’s true and loyal disciples who sacraficed himself for the cause. Not all early christians believed that Jesus died. Whoever it was, it wasn’t Jesus and the person who died was made to look like Jesus. So the disbelievers were duped. They plotted to murder him simply because he was calling to Monotheism and did not compromise his beliefs to please the rulers and the corrupt Rabbis at the time.

So its a mystery.

ok?

Jesus was also reported to have said: “My father is greater than I” Jn 14:28

Jesus also cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

This is proof of Jesus’ two natures…

 

[SonofAdam]

Dear SonofAdam,

The Quran (the word of Allah) teaches that hell is eternal. But the prophet Muhammad taught that hell is temporary.

Who is right?

Blessings and peace.

Jahenum(Hell-Fire) will last forever. If believers happen to go to the hell fire, it will be temporary for them but always everlasting for the disbelievers.