Mary virgin after birth?

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I just had a discussion at my Bible study where we talked about the virgin birth. Some argued that Jesus was not born the normal way, but appeared out of the Virgin Mary,s womb. They maintained that this was necessary to keep her virginity in tact biologically. Do other people think this is the case? Some argued this so that the Hebrew definition of virgin would’ve maintained. Others argued that since He was God, he could be born however he wanted.
 
Catholicwoman11 said:
I just had a discussion at my Bible study where we talked about the virgin birth. Some argued that Jesus was not born the normal way, but appeared out of the Virgin Mary,s womb. They maintained that this was necessary to keep her virginity in tact biologically. Do other people think this is the case? Some argued this so that the Hebrew definition of virgin would’ve maintained. Others argued that since He was God, he could be born however he wanted.
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Well yes there is many ways to view it. In order to fulfill the prophesies in the scriptures Jesus must have been born of a young Virgin Maiden. Mary was recorded as 17 when she gave birth to Jesus.(That’s fairly young). Mary was a Virgin. I think the Bible was pretty clear on telling us this. That was the first miracle of Jesus. He was born of a Virgin.

The early Christians have always counted Mary as a Virgin. In fact they put that in the apostles creed. The Virgin Birth is also one of the Joyful Mysteries. The Nativity.

In my opinion I think Mary was a virgin. Making Jesus’ birth even more miraculous. I also think he was born of a Virgin because it says so in the Old Testament that themassiah will be born of a young Maiden

maid·en/ˈmādn/
Adjective:
(of a woman, esp. an older one) Unmarried: “a maiden aunt”.
Noun:
A girl or young woman, esp. an unmarried one

And we all know that Joseph and Mary were married because they were both Jewish. And according to ancient Jewish law if you are to kiss another person you are to be married.(I know it goes something like that)

Alright I hoped this helped.
Take Car and
God Bless.
 
Here is my very simple explanation.

A virgin (female) is one who has not “known man” - that is, has not had sexual intercourse.
Virginity does not relate to whether a woman has had children or not. Of course in the normal course of things those who have children are not virgins…

Mary was a Virgin when Jesus was conceived in her womb and remained so even after his birth regardless of the physiological issues associated with His birth.
So - Whether Jesus was born in the usual fashion or in some way that preserved the hymen is really immaterial.

Mary never “knew man”, ergo she was and remained a virgin.

That said, I do believe that there are some apocryphal books (Protoevengelicum of James??) that address this issue but I don’t remember the particulars very well.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Peace
James
 
You might want to read the section in the Catechism that discusses Mary’s virginity:

CCC 496-511

In particular, the basis for what those people said is this (emphasis added):

510 Mary “remained a virgin in conceiving her Son, a virgin in giving birth to him, a virgin in carrying him, a virgin in nursing him at her breast, always a virgin” (St. Augustine, Serm. 186, 1: PL 38, 999): with her whole being she is “the handmaid of the Lord” (Lk 1:38).

So what does it mean exactly to remain a virgin “in giving birth to him”? Some people interpret this literally to mean that Jesus sort of miraculously appeared outside of Mary rather than being born the usual way. Certainly, that would not be the most miraculous part of the story, so I don’t discount that possibility entirely. But I’m not 100% convinced that such an explanation is necessary in order to maintain that Mary remained a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ. I tend to agree with James’ take on things.
 
I had a surgery at 7yrs. old in which my Hymen was not left in tact. To anyone who would say I was no longer a virgin–give me a break. And quit asking such rude questions about my Mother.
Her response to Gabriel was “I have not known man…have had no relations with a man.”…or whichever translation you use. But no where do I remember her saying “how can this be, I am physically still in tact.” In deed if she was as active a kid as I was, doing acrobats, climbing trees and jumping onto makebelieve horses that were actually saw horses with heavy blankets, she may not have been “biologically” a virgin-as it was put.

We know she never had sex and is our model of ultimate faithfulness and obedience to God.If the word for that is Alabamalousianna, then Mary was an Alabamalousianna.But as it happens, the word we use is not Alabamalousianna. It is VIRGIN.
 
Raising the question does seem kind of invasive and squicky to us now, but this a a topic that Catholic theologians have discussed for a long time. The idea that Mary remained physically virginal before, during, and after Jesus’ birth has been quite popular, especially in past eras.

I tend to take the position that “virgin” only needs to have its central modern meaning of “never having had sex,” but there is a long pedigree for the belief that “virgin during birth” has to mean that Jesus was born in some way other than the usual process. (That also conveniently spares Mary from the usual pain of childbirth, since that is supposed to be associated with the Fall from which we believe Mary was spared.)

Usagi
 
Please refer to the ancient writing - the Protoevangelium of James.

I believe Tim Staples refers to this in his tape series “All Generations Shall Call Me Blessed.”

A midwife verified the Blessed Mother was a virgin after the birth of the Lord.

You can look it up @ newadvent.org
 
This is a biological mystery of faith.

Mary is chosen by God to be the one to bring his only Son into this world.

So many mysteries, so little time.
 
I have this little theory , a bit outside the box, about Mary"s Virginity.

I used to doubt this forever virgin thing. Then it occured to me one day that the proof of Jesus being Who He said He was, lay in the fact that he was born of a virgin, as prophecy was fullfilled. Had to be that way. it was Written.

But, if Mary lost her physical evidence of her virginity, ever in her life, then all of mankind could say, well, "what Virgin?’

God , it seems, has this habit of having a witness. I think that the Shroud is a type of witness to an event that no one saw. And(without getting too technical here) her physical evidence is indeed a type of “witness” to forever say He was Born of a Virgin

It is entirely possible that Joseph was a widower with children (Jesus’ brothers and sisters) and a much older man( or by some ailment) not capable of relations or not wanting due to respect of Mary being the mother of the messiah( i mean, if i were a guy that would just mess my head up and take away the mood)

I hope this does not sound flippent or meant to be funny. It isn’t meant to.

I understand that the catholic teaching is that Jesus was born the natural way after labor pains but that He came through her hymen as Light comes through glass. makes sense, He is the Light of the World
 
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
 
Irenaeus, Against Heresies (Book IV, Chapter 33

…Again, there are those who say, He is a man, and who shall know him? and, I came unto the prophetess, and she bore a son, and His name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God; and those [of them] who proclaimed Him as Immanuel, [born] of the Virgin, exhibited the union of the Word of God with His own workmanship, [declaring] that the Word should become flesh, and the Son of God the Son of man **(the pure One opening purely that pure womb which regenerates men unto God, and which He Himself made pure); **and having become this which we also are…
 
Ps22:9 But thou [art] he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope [when I was] upon my mother’s breasts…16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet…18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
 
Doxiemom said:
I have this little theory , a bit outside the box, about Mary"s Virginity.

I used to doubt this forever virgin thing. Then it occured to me one day that the proof of Jesus being Who He said He was, lay in the fact that he was born of a virgin, as prophecy was fullfilled. Had to be that way. it was Written.

But, if Mary lost her physical evidence of her virginity, ever in her life, then all of mankind could say, well, "what Virgin?’

God , it seems, has this habit of having a witness. I think that the Shroud is a type of witness to an event that no one saw. And(without getting too technical here) her physical evidence is indeed a type of “witness” to forever say He was Born of a Virgin
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I do agree here and this fists well with the account recorded in the Proto-evangelium of James. That the Mid-wife came and saw that the hymen was still intact.
It is entirely possible that Joseph was a widower with children (Jesus’ brothers and sisters) and a much older man( or by some ailment) not capable of relations or not wanting due to respect of Mary being the mother of the messiah( i mean, if i were a guy that would just mess my head up and take away the mood)
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I hope this does not sound flippant or meant to be funny. It isn’t meant to.
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No this does not sound flippant. In fact it is the same thing that more or less settled the matter for me as well.
I understand that the catholic teaching is that Jesus was born the natural way after labor pains but that He came through her hymen as Light comes through glass. makes sense, He is the Light of the World
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I like this.

Peace
James
 
panevino said:
Ps22:9 But thou [art] he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope [when I was] upon my mother’s breasts…16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet…18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
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👍 I also love that verse in the Messianic Psalm 22. When it comes up in the Liturgy of the Hours, I often envision God the Father miraculously bringing forth His Son Incarnate from Mary’s womb and placing Him in her arms.

Regarding the Church’s profession that Mary was a virgin “before, during and after” Jesus’ birth:
Only as a claim for physical integrity does it make any sense to profess virginity “during” birth.
 
Nita said:
👍 I also love that verse in the Messianic Psalm 22. When it comes up in the Liturgy of the Hours, I often envision God the Father miraculously bringing forth His Son Incarnate from Mary’s womb and placing Him in her arms.

Regarding the Church’s profession that Mary was a virgin “before, during and after” Jesus’ birth:
Only as a claim for physical integrity does it make any sense to profess virginity “during” birth.
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Does this mean that Mary’s physical integrity was tested by anyone? Did Joseph allow people to test this?
 
StrawberryJam said:
Does this mean that Mary’s physical integrity was tested by anyone? Did Joseph allow people to test this?
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No, not necessarily. (I’m allowing for the possibility the Gospel of James could be true).
Likewise, we do not believe that Mary’s virginity had to be tested by someone just prior to conception in order to believe that a virgin conceived.
 
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