Mary without Sin and the Bible

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I have a question. I was always raised to believe that Mary always lived a life without sin. But I am confused about some passages I have seen in scripture. How are these rationalized to fit the belief that Mary was always sinless?

Romans 3:23
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
(It doesn’t seem to make any exceptions. Although it doesn’t even make an exception for Jesus, it doesn’t need to because Jesus is God, and it states “…fall short of the glory of God.”

Romans 3:9-18
9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better**? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”[c]
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."[d]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[e]
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[f]
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."[g]
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[h]

This was written after Mary, and again, they make no exception for Mary. In fact, they go so far as to say "There is no one righteous, not even one

And the often said, Luke 1:47

47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior

Although, I have heard that she did need a Savior, although she was saved prior to her being born. That doesn’t seem to fit, though, with my above quoted scriptures that all were sinners.

Could someone please help me with this? I find it disconcerting to see all this scripture contrary to the teachings I always believed to be true. Thanks!**
 
boppaid said:
I have a question. I was always raised to believe that Mary always lived a life without sin. But I am confused about some passages I have seen in scripture. How are these rationalized to fit the belief that Mary was always sinless?

Romans 3:23
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
(It doesn’t seem to make any exceptions. Although it doesn’t even make an exception for Jesus, it doesn’t need to because Jesus is God, and it states “…fall short of the glory of God.”

Romans 3:9-18
9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better**? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:**
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."[c]
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."[d]
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."[e]
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[f]
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."[g]
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[h]

This was written after Mary, and again, they make no exception for Mary. In fact, they go so far as to say "There is no one righteous, not even one

And the often said, Luke 1:47

47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior

Although, I have heard that she did need a Savior, although she was saved prior to her being born. That doesn’t seem to fit, though, with my above quoted scriptures that all were sinners.

Could someone please help me with this? I find it disconcerting to see all this scripture contrary to the teachings I always believed to be true. Thanks!

Romans 3:23

First of all, Jesus is God and He is fully human. As the Son of Man, Jesus is included as us in all ways except sin. To deny any part of the humanity of Jesus results in the denial of that part of our redemption. Secondly, while infants and young children are born with original sin the quote says that “all have sinned”. This presumes an action resulting in sin. Infants and small children would have to be an exception to this if taken literally because an infant does not have personal sin. Thirdly, Adam and Eve were without sin prior to their choice to sin. So for an undetermined time this quote could not apply to them.

We must realize that Paul emphasizes with the term “all” but God did make exceptions for Jesus and Mary and infants and for a limited time Adam and Eve. There are so many typological supports for the understanding of Mary’s sinlessness. We cannot build a doctrine around one biblical verse.

Romans 3:9-18

This seems like a quip from the book of Ecclesiastes. Again, Paul references Psalm 14 to emphasize a lamentation of despair due to vast corruption.

Scripture is far from contrary to what you’ve been taught. It’s improper interpretation of Scripture that is contrary to what you’ve been taught. Also one needs to open up to the entire portrait of Scripture using the Old Testament along with the New to have a complete vision of God’s Word. Pulling out short snips is poor exegesis and results in our “putting in” our own ideas as to what the proper interpretation should be.

The Catholic Church as invested 2000 years in making sure that we receive the same guidance from the Holy Spirit that the biblical authors received as they wrote down the Scriptures. Jesus left behind a Church and it is from that Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, that we received Scripture and it is by that same Church that we interpret Scripture.

You will get much more informative posts, as there are so many here that know so much more, but I hope this helps a little…teachccd 🙂
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And the often said, Luke 1:47
“and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior”

Everyone saved owes their being saved through the grace which comes only from Jesus Christ. This was won by his life, death, and resurrection. Mary, like everyone else, needs a Savior. For most of us, that mean that we are saved after we come to Christ. For Mary, she was saved from the moment of her conception.

Metaphor: A man walks down the street and falls into a puddle of mud. Jesus comes along, pulls him out of the mud, and cleans him off. Mary is walking down the same path, and Jesus yells to her “STOP! DON’T FALL INTO THAT MUD!” Mary walks around the mud, never falling in.
 
Lately I have been praying for a new subject to cover in my blog. Maybe I will cover Mary’s sinlessness. Although the subject is intimidating. I know why we believe this, but explaining it to Protestants is difficult.

Staying on the subject, isn’t there a story in the Old Testament about the ark falling and a man putting out his hand to keep it from falling. The man instantly dies because he touched the ark. Does anyone know where that story is because it would tie into this subject.
 
deb1 said:
Lately I have been praying for a new subject to cover in my blog. Maybe I will cover Mary’s sinlessness. Although the subject is intimidating. I know why we believe this, but explaining it to Protestants is difficult.

Staying on the subject, isn’t there a story in the Old Testament about the ark falling and a man putting out his hand to keep it from falling. The man instantly dies because he touched the ark. Does anyone know where that story is because it would tie into this subject.
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Just as an FYI for your blog touching on this issue for Protestants: Protestants don’t believe Mary was the new arc, so that argument wouldn’t mean anything to them. But I do remember the story. It was when they were transporting it.
 
boppaid said:
Just as an FYI for your blog touching on this issue for Protestants: Protestants don’t believe Mary was the new arc, so that argument wouldn’t mean anything to them. But I do remember the story. It was when they were transporting it.
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The goal of my blog isn’t to convert anyone-although that would be great-it is to explain Catholic beliefs. So, it isn’t necessary to convince the people who come to my blog that I am right. I do have to do research and try and get all my facts straight. That can be difficult and take time.

. Do you remember where the story is located in the Old Testament?
 
deb1 said:
The goal of my blog isn’t to convert anyone-although that would be great-it is to explain Catholic beliefs. So, it isn’t necessary to convince the people who come to my blog that I am right. I do have to do research and try and get all my facts straight. That can be difficult and take time.

. Do you remember where the story is located in the Old Testament?
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I will try to look it up, and get back with you. I have it located in an old bible study I did years ago. Probably tomorrow, though, as I’ve got company on their way tonight!
 
deb1 said:
Lately I have been praying for a new subject to cover in my blog. Maybe I will cover Mary’s sinlessness. Although the subject is intimidating. I know why we believe this, but explaining it to Protestants is difficult.

Staying on the subject, isn’t there a story in the Old Testament about the ark falling and a man putting out his hand to keep it from falling. The man instantly dies because he touched the ark. Does anyone know where that story is because it would tie into this subject.
Click to expand...
Actually when speaking with Protestants I personally emphasize the fact that when you lessen the role of Mary you lessen what Christ deserves. When Christ took on human flesh, we have the Word of God in the womb of a human woman. Lessening the condition of that womb indicates that Christ is not deserving of an unstained vessel while the written Word of God (the ten commandments) deserved a golden lined ark that was pure and untouched. If one cannot see the parallel of biblical typology indicated in 2 Samuel chapter six (2 Samuel 6:9) then one is simply turning away. In this chapter we not only see Uzzah die for touching the ark but we see David saying, " How is it that the ark of my Lord should come to me?" This totally parallels Luke 1:43 when Elizabeth is speaking to Mary. David is seen leaping and dancing before the ark as John the Baptist lept in the womb of Elizabeth in front of Mary.

I could go on but you get the gist…God Bless…teachccd 🙂
 
Mary was not with out sin other wise she would never have needed a Savior. Read her Magnificate to see where she acknowledged Jesus as her Savior. If she knew she had no sin then there would have been no need for her to have Savior. If she is without sin then Christ did not die for all but for some. 🤷
 
DLC said:
Mary was not with out sin other wise she would never have needed a Savior. Read her Magnificate to see where she acknowledged Jesus as her Savior. If she knew she had no sin then there would have been no need for her to have Savior. If she is without sin then Christ did not die for all but for some. 🤷
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Or course Jesus is her Savior. One can be saved out of sin or from sinning in the first place; in either case the Savior is required. This article sums it up well:
. . .Mary, too, required a Savior. Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation.
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Consider an analogy: Suppose a man falls into a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been “saved” from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. By receiving Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become mired in original sin and its stain. . .
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catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
 
DLC said:
Mary was not with out sin other wise she would never have needed a Savior. Read her Magnificate to see where she acknowledged Jesus as her Savior. If she knew she had no sin then there would have been no need for her to have Savior. If she is without sin then Christ did not die for all but for some. 🤷
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Yes, Jesus was her savior, but Mary was still without sin. No one can be saved except through Christ. How can Mary be saved before her conception if it is the Crucifixion that saves us? Easy. God exists outside of time. He is not limited by time. God created time for humans. Therefore God exists at all times. God used the sanctifying grace of Jesus on the cross and applied it to Mary so she could be born without sin. So, Mary was without sin from conception, but Jesus was still her savior.
 
boppaid said:
I have a question. I was always raised to believe that Mary always lived a life without sin. But I am confused about some passages I have seen in scripture. How are these rationalized to fit the belief that Mary was always sinless?

Romans 3:23
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
(It doesn’t seem to make any exceptions. Although it doesn’t even make an exception for Jesus, it doesn’t need to because Jesus is God, and it states “…fall short of the glory of God.”

Romans 3:9-18
9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better**? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”[c]
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."[d]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[e]
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[f]
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."[g]
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[h]

This was written after Mary, and again, they make no exception for Mary. In fact, they go so far as to say "There is no one righteous, not even one**

In addition to other answers …

It helps to back up and take a look at more than the immediate verses in Romans, and cosidering to whom and why Romans was written. There’s a lot more to it but generally speaking, Paul was writing to a community in Rome that consisted of newly converted Jews and Gentiles. There was a lot of uncertainty over basic beliefs and religious practices that were very different between the two cultures.

In Romans 1-3, Paul lays out the case that regardless of whether you were born Jewish or Gentile, BOTH groups or “peoples” were wrong in their faith. Thus – all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
boppaid;3062574:
And the often said, Luke 1:47

47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior

Although, I have heard that she did need a Savior, although she was saved prior to her being born. That doesn’t seem to fit, though, with my above quoted scriptures that all were sinners.

Could someone please help me with this? I find it disconcerting to see all this scripture contrary to the teachings I always believed to be true. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Jesus is the Logos, the Word of God, who existed from the beginning. As part of the triune God, He exists out of time. He came to earth and entered/exited our concept of time, but as he said to the Jews – “before Abraham was, I AM.”

So … the timing of His birth and Mary’s statement don’t matter at all.

ALSO … see the following link: catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
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