Mary Worship

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The inspired scriptures tell me this … I believe that the scriptures of the Bible are the inspired inerrant Words of God Himself … and I believe what He tells me, and not necessarily any religious organization’s teaching
 
I do not submit to the authority of the RCC and never will … I only believe in the inspired scriptures of the Bible alone, and not the fabricated traditions of the RCC

When Jesus said “see your mother” He was speaking to His unbelieving Jewish half brothers who were present at the cross [John 7:3-5;19:25-27]

So you and I will not agree upon much because you accept the traditional teachings of the RCC and I do not … I do not believe that RCC tradition and the scriptures line up together same as you do for many reasons

The bottom line is this … when you get to the end of your journey in this temporal life and have nothing to show [no human will have any thing to boast about], it is going to be all about who you know … Jesus Christ

This should be your primary focus … keep the faith … He is coming to the earth again … could be before this day is over … make certain that you are ready [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:10; 3:15-19]
So why are you here? Are you trying to convert us?

If there is one person we Catholics know, it is Jesus Christ.

Our primary focus is and always has been Jesus. And unlike you we get to receive him everyday in the Eucharist at Mass. You can’t get more personal than that.
 
I do not submit to the authority of the RCC and never will … I only believe in the inspired scriptures of the Bible alone, and not the fabricated traditions of the RCC
You have been asked before just how do you know what scriptures were inspired? Fabricated is a disrespectful term to use besides being false.
When Jesus said “see your mother” He was speaking to His unbelieving Jewish half brothers who were present at the cross [John 7:3-5;19:25-27]
This is so unscriptual. What you cite does not show that any so called brothers were at the cross. Please do a search of this site of the brothers of Christ to come up to spead what brothers meant.

I would love for you to explain, as no one has ever, why Jesus changed Peter’s name, said the Church would founded on him, and gave him the keys to bound and loose?

Of course the scripture that says everything will be found in scripture.
 
The inspired scriptures tell me this … I believe that the scriptures of the Bible are the inspired inerrant Words of God Himself … and I believe what He tells me, and not necessarily any religious organization’s teaching
That doesn’t answer the question, Literalist.

You do know, right, that there are over 400 ancient Christian texts which talk about the Christian way of life?

Of those books, 27 were chosen by…

the Catholic Church…

as being divinely inspired.

The ONLY way you know that these books are inspired, and the other ones are not…

is because you say, “Yes! The Catholic Church told me this and I submit to her authority!”.

There is NO OTHER WAY for you to know that Hebrews is inspired and that the Shepherd of Hermas is not.
 
“So why are you here? Are you trying to convert us?”

Hardly

You are responsible for your own journey … not I

I am here to share God’s Word … the Bible
 
“That doesn’t answer the question, Literalist”

Well I think so … and you will believe what you want

And so will I … no doubt
 
“You have been asked before just how do you know what scriptures were inspired? Fabricated is a disrespectful term to use besides being false”

And I will answer the same … I know

Apparently you do not… and I consider this to be your problem, not mine

Since you do not, I would have to say that you have little to stand and rely upon

Seek and ask the Lord your question and He will show you

Then you will know
 
“You have been asked before just how do you know what scriptures were inspired? Fabricated is a disrespectful term to use besides being false”

And I will answer the same … I know
What does this mean, Literalist?

You just can read something and know, in your heart, that it comes from God?

Is that how you’re saying you know that the letter to the Hebrews is inspired but that the Shepherd of Hermas is not inspired…you just “know”?
 
“You just can read something and know, in your heart, that it comes from God?”

Not just something … but the Lord’s Word alone, the Bible

It is directly from Him just as if He is speaking to you … the very Words of the creator of the universe, the living God

Give it a try … seek Him and ask Him to show you

And if you do this with pure motive … He will

He will make His Word come alive for you … over time as He sees fit

Then you will know what I know and you can spend the rest of your journey marveling at His truth … no doubt
 
I do not submit to the authority of the RCC [or any other religious organization for that matter and never will … I only believe in the inspired scriptures of the Bible alone, and not the fabricated traditions of the RCC

So…what you are saying then is…you only believe in your own authority…you are your own pope?

How do you know you are not being deceived by your own pride?
So you and I will not agree upon much because you accept the traditional teachings of the RCC and I do not … I do not believe that RCC tradition and the scriptures line up together same as you do for many reasons
So let me get this…you do not believe in the RCC and its ancient traditions…but you believe in the traditions you make…and the traditions of those who are in opposition to the RCC…which you seem to have taken, hook, line and sinker?
The bottom line is this … when you get to the end of your journey in this temporal life and have nothing to show [no human will have any thing to boast about], it is going to be all about who you know … Jesus Christ [Matthew 7:21-23]
What you say here…to be all about who you know"…is contradictory to the words of Christ directly…Matt 7…21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

And Rev 14 says your deeds will follow you…13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
[/QUOTE]
 
“So why are you here? Are you trying to convert us?”

Hardly

You are responsible for your own journey … not I

I am here to share God’s Word … the Bible
What are you going to share about God’s word that we do not already know?

I hope you are aware…the RCC has had the Bible, at least in its present form…since AD382.
 
“You have been asked before just how do you know what scriptures were inspired? Fabricated is a disrespectful term to use besides being false”

And I will answer the same … I know

Apparently you do not… and I consider this to be your problem, not mine

Since you do not, I would have to say that you have little to stand and rely upon

Seek and ask the Lord your question and He will show you

Then you will know
Please learn to use the quote. It really isn’t hard.
To say the “I know” is a cop out.
Wow! Actually it is apparent that you do not know the Scriptures. You claim that His brothers were at the cross. Scripture only list women and John. Yet your answer is I do not know Scripture.:rolleyes:
 
The inspired scriptures tell me this … I believe that the scriptures of the Bible are the inspired inerrant Words of God Himself … and I believe what He tells me, and not necessarily any religious organization’s teaching
No, they don’t. The early Church wasn’t sure what books were canon and which were apocryphal. Many, for instance, believed the Apocalypse of Peter and the Gospel (or Epistle, not sure which) of Barnabas were Sacred Scripture, while others rejected John’s Apocalypse, Hebrews, and I believe 3 John. There was no consensus.

The same thing happened with the old Scripture of the Jews later, as Rabbinic Judaism eventually rejected the Septuagint as inspired (although there never was full consensus among Jews, either, as they weren’t unified. In fact, Ethopian Jews still use the Septuagint). The Church had to determine, as a whole, without reference to Scripture, what books were and were not Scripture (this is why they couldn’t use Scripture as a reference, because there was no definitive canon).

So, if one acknowledges any of the books of the Bible to be Scripture, one is either acknowledging Rabbinic Judaism or Catholicism as a purveyor of infallible truth. Anyone who accepts the New Testament as canon is ackowleding the ability of the Church as a whole to determine something infallible through councils, which is exactly the prescribed method in Scripture (Acts 15). So, essentially, if one accepts the New Testament canon, they must also accept the authority of the Church in determining infallible truth. Scripture itself does not specify that the Spirit would only help determine the canon of Scripture. In fact, Scripture simply says the Spirit will never leave us. So, if one accepts that the Church as a whole can indeed determine infallible truth, and then rejects it, it is done without Scriptural authority and based on personal opinion.

The logical implications of Sola Scriptura do not hold up. If one accepts Scripture at all, they submit to an infallible entity that determined its canononical value.
 
Show me that in the Bible. If you can’t, then you have to look at tradition to know the canon. And who am I going to listen to, your 500 year old Protestant tradition, or the 2000 year old traditions of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches?
An absolute knockout blow! 🙂
 


The Jews in Egypt translated their choices of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek in the second century before Christ. This translation of 46 books, called the Septuagint, had wide use in the Roman world because most Jews lived far from Palestine in Greek cities. Many of these Jews spoke only Greek.

The early Christian Church was born into this world. The Church, with its bilingual Jews and more and more Greek-speaking Gentiles, used the books of the Septuagint as its Bible. Remember the early Christians were just writing the documents what would become the NT. ***After the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, with increasing persecution from the Romans and competition from the fledgling Christian Church, the Jewish leaders came together and declared its official canon of Scripture, eliminating seven books from the Septuagint. ***



This is how you got your bible. From the Catholic Church. 😉
Just to supplement your excellent summary here–the original Hebrew texts were lost upon the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and the resulting diaspora of the Jews. When the Hebrew authorities ‘declared their official cannon’, they actually reconstituted it–from the Septuagint–since it was the best and most authentic source to survive the Sack of Jerusalem. This occurred around 200 AD. And, as you pointed out–Christianity was growing like a weed within judaism–therefore the Jewish authorities, in establishing their Cannon, sought to make it less Christological (as Christ fulfilling the OT prophesies would obviously undermine their authority, and validity)–and therefore they eliminated those seven books from the Septuagint. This reconstituted OT, is what Protestants are referring to, when they site ‘the original Hebrew texts’.

Sorry fellas…but those were simply lost. Destroyed. Gone. Non-existent. The Septuagint was all that survivied. What’s more, the New Testament contains >135 references to the Septuagint–to the exclusion of the later reconstituted, less Christilogical, Hebrew OT.

Hence the Protestant Bible follows the post-Christ Cannon–which was specifically intended to be less Christological–while the Catholic Bible retains the integrity of the full Cannon known and used by Christ and the Apostles.
 


The bottom line is this … **when you get to the end of your journey in this temporal life **and have nothing to show [no human will have any thing to boast about], it is going to be all about who you know … Jesus Christ [Matthew 7:21-23]

This should be your primary focus … keep the faith … He is coming to the earth again … could be before this day is over … make certain that you are ready [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:10; 3:15-19]
John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Translation: you diligently read your Bible because you think that in them, you have eternal life…yet you refuse to come to Christ, in the Eucharist, to have life.

Do you really think you know Christ?

Seems you don’t even know your Bible that well. 🙂

For reference:

*John 6: [31] Our fathers did eat manna in the desert, as it is written: He gave them bread from heaven to eat. [32] Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you; Moses gave you not bread from heaven, but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. [33] For the bread of God is that which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life to the world. [34] They said therefore unto him: Lord, give us always this bread. [35] ***And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst. ***

[36] But I said unto you, that you also have seen me, and you believe not. [37] All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out. [38] Because I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me. [39] Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day. [40] And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day.

[41] The Jews therefore murmured at him, because he had said: I am the living bread which came down from heaven. [42] And they said: Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then saith he, I came down from heaven? [43] Jesus therefore answered, and said to them: Murmur not among yourselves. [44] No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day. [45] It is written in the prophets: And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard of the Father, and hath learned, cometh to me.

[46] Not that any man hath seen the Father; but he who is of God, he hath seen the Father. [47] Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life. [48] I am the bread of life. [49] Your fathers did eat manna in the desert, and are dead. [50] This is the bread which cometh down from heaven; that if any man eat of it, he may not die.

[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven. [52] If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. [53] The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? [54] Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. [55] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

[56] For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. [57] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. [58] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. [59] This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever. [60] These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum.

[61] Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it? [62] But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you? [63] If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? [64] It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life. [65] But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning, who they were that did not believe, and who he was, that would betray him.

[66] And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father. [67] After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him.*
 
I do not submit to the authority of the RCC [or any other religious organization for that matter and never will … I only believe in the inspired scriptures of the Bible alone, and not the fabricated traditions of the RCC

Yet by disregarding the Church that Christ founded, and dismissing the Tradition of the Church Fathers, and their interpretation of scripture–in favor of your own–YOU are subscribing to ‘traditions of men’–the ‘reformers’.

btw–earlier I posted a few questions I volunteered to another poster–I have posed these to many protestants, and have been treated to nothing but diversionery tactics. Care to take a shot? Here they are:
  1. ***At what specific point in time–or specific event–between 382 AD and 1517 AD–do you claim that the Catholic Church somehow lost the very same authority she used to determine which books comprised the Bible? ***
  2. ***Christ prophesized a lot in the Gospels. Sola scriptura is a pretty darn significant doctrine. Where is sola scriptura prophesized in the Bible? ***
(Ok, it’s not. Why not?)
  1. Was Martin Luther a prophet? Did he ever claim to be such? Wouldn’t the negation of the Church as it existed when Luther lived–with direct lineage to the Apostles–require a genuine prophecy, or other genuinely divine revelation?
(If not Luther, then from whence is this divine revelation/prophecy, and to whom was it made?)
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