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Akiliane
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Why do Protestants dislike Catholics and say that we worship mary & other statues? They even go so far as to say Catholicism is the “occult”? why are some protestants so hateful towards us?
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sennincatholic
Guest
I got 2 reasons:
first…most have wrong information on what the Catholic Church realy is…
second…
…its like a tug of war between protestants and catholicism.The moment they stop pulling against the catholic church they will be pulled towards it…
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BackToTheRock
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The moment they stop pulling against the catholic church they will be pulled towards it…
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tabycat
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I got 2 reasons:
first…most have wrong information on what the Catholic Church realy is…
second…
I can think of one more reason: good old fasion human nature.
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Ambrose
Guest
Do Catholics or Americans for that matter worship Abraham Lincoln ? We build statues of his likeness, put his picture up in federal buildings, have his face on a five dollar bill. Maybe we venerate him, think his life is one to emulate and revel in his greatness.
This isn’t that hard. But then again, I’m Catholic.
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eyesopening
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I was a hardcore reformed protestant for years. When I first became a Christian I went to a Southern Baptist Church. I had NO IDEA what the various denominations taught. I just went with a friend, “found religion” and walked down the aisle!
Early in my Christian training I was approached by the youth minister who wanted to make sure this teenager hadn’t fallen for peer pressure and I had truly made a decision for Christ. He walked me through the whole sin, salvation, Blood of Christ, atonement, etc. theology. (A great deal of what he said was the truth.) BUT…he went on to describe the protestant reformation and how the reformers had rescued Christianity from the “Whore of Babylon!” He explained in great detail how Constantine converted to Christianity and tried to accommodate the pagans in his new state religion, Catholicism. He accommodated them by allowing them to continue their polytheistic worship and superimpose Christian personalities onto the existing pantheon of gods.
Now, its very likely that this well intentioned minister was simply repeating a lot of what his own teachers had told him, and the information with which he was indoctrinated in seminary.
The point is, protestant Christians are taught from the very beginning that Catholicism is evil. (And some of them really think EVIL. Like, the devil incarnate kind of evil.)
As you can see, I’m Catholic now. So there’s still hope for the rest of them!
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Skye_Ariel
Guest
Mis information taught to them and believing wrong things. Lack of knowledge.
Most don’t even know that they already agree with 99% of what we believe, we just believe more than what they believe.
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Skye_Ariel
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Exactly! I like that!I got 2 reasons:
first…most have wrong information on what the Catholic Church realy is…
second…
Good point!Do Catholics or Americans for that matter worship Abraham Lincoln ? We build statues of his likeness, put his picture up in federal buildings, have his face on a five dollar bill. Maybe we venerate him, think his life is one to emulate and revel in his greatness.
This isn’t that hard. But then again, I’m Catholic.
Christianity would become a very strong force to reckon with if protestants would put aside the hatred/mistrust and unite with us.
Many protestants are passionate believers and do a lot of good positive things for Christianity so if they just joined with us with** their** strong points and us with **our **strong points, together we would become a very powerful force. That might be what’s behind the drive to keep the two apart, if you know what I mean. Imagine T. D. Jakes, and Joyce Meyers and Creflo Dollar joined with the Catholic Church.
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mdgspencer
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The answers just given are very good answers.
I always am surprised by this. Some Protestants confront Catholics and Catholicism by saying that they worship Mary. But why don’t they go and ask Catholics what they believe in before they say what Catholics believe in? We sometimes have the situation where Protestants tell Catholics what they believe in–without asking these same Catholics what they believe in, who are the ones who really ought to know. If such Prostants did ask Catholics, they can be in for a surprise.
I admire some Protestants greatly. I can understand how some people look at other groups in this way–but it can be better to check your facts before speaking of another religion.
I always am surprised by this. Some Protestants confront Catholics and Catholicism by saying that they worship Mary. But why don’t they go and ask Catholics what they believe in before they say what Catholics believe in? We sometimes have the situation where Protestants tell Catholics what they believe in–without asking these same Catholics what they believe in, who are the ones who really ought to know. If such Prostants did ask Catholics, they can be in for a surprise.
I admire some Protestants greatly. I can understand how some people look at other groups in this way–but it can be better to check your facts before speaking of another religion.
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R_C
Guest
Because they, while not being heretics but rather our brothers in Christ, born and baptized within other Christian communities without any fault of their own, they still follow heretical doctrines that have fallen short of the truth, rejecting Sacred Tradition and parts of Sacred Scripture.
As one Church Father, Tertullian, once wrote:
The Church has the teaching authority and the knowledge to rebuke all erroneous doctrines. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they prefer to follow novelties.
Remember that when Our Lord was preaching openly the acceptable year of the Lord, some needed only a look to leave it all behind and follow Him, others were his disciples for a time and then walked away, and some others picked up stones to throw at Him. After His glorious Resurrection, the Church followed His life: some apostles gathered many disciples, others after a time walked away and formed their own communities distorting the tradition, and others took the apostles and mistreated them, hit them, even put them to death.
Not all “protestants” are the same (41000+ denominations, each different from one another), but we find a bit of everything, from those who say we will go to hell or are worshipers of the devil for praying to Our Lady (shocking pamphlet), to those who even pray for the intercession of Our Lady and wish her to be honored and venerated. The following is a selection of quotes by Martin Luther on Our Lady. I wish all Protestants would at least agree with their “spiritual father” on this as much as they agree on sola fide and sola scriptura…
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pocohombre
Guest
good question.We are so different yet sound the same some times.Other times CC does sounds/acts rather cultish.
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pocohombre
Guest
beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2012/04/luther-veneration-of-mary-is-inscribed.html this tells more fittingly that Luther thought CC went too far on Mary veneration and wanted to correct the errors. Have not confirmed it. Is it a valid article?Because they, while not being heretics but rather our brothers in Christ, born and baptized within other Christian communities without any fault of their own, they still follow heretical doctrines that have fallen short of the truth, rejecting Sacred Tradition and parts of Sacred Scripture.
As one Church Father, Tertullian, once wrote:
The Church has the teaching authority and the knowledge to rebuke all erroneous doctrines. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they prefer to follow novelties.
Remember that when Our Lord was preaching openly the acceptable year of the Lord, some needed only a look to leave it all behind and follow Him, others were his disciples for a time and then walked away, and some others picked up stones to throw at Him. After His glorious Resurrection, the Church followed His life: some apostles gathered many disciples, others after a time walked away and formed their own communities distorting the tradition, and others took the apostles and mistreated them, hit them, even put them to death.
Not all “protestants” are the same (41000+ denominations, each different from one another), but we find a bit of everything, from those who say we will go to hell or are worshipers of the devil for praying to Our Lady (shocking pamphlet), to those who even pray for the intercession of Our Lady and wish her to be honored and venerated. The following is a selection of quotes by Martin Luther on Our Lady. I wish all Protestants would at least agree with their “spiritual father” on this as much as they agree on sola fide and sola scriptura…
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bzkoss236
Guest
Technically, by definition, any group with a common belief is considered a cult. So, by being a Christian, you are essentially in a cult. Or if you identify as Republican or Democrat. It is just that a lot of people gave a bad name to the idea of a cult, which led to the bad connotation the word cult has today. It is similar to how Christianity is often portrayed in secular media. A few bad Christians make news, and their error gets attributed to the whole.
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trevor1055
Guest
I have a perspective on this. I am a convert to the Church. I grew up in a loving protestant Christian family. My family history is mostly Pentecostal. I will paraphrase Archbishop Fulton Sheen – millions of people hate what they think the Catholic Church teaches, but only a handful hate what the Church actually teaches.
As stated, I have a Pentecostal background. My grandma, a holy woman who I know is in heaven, was ignorant about the Church. My mother (more on this in a bit) grew up very anti-Catholic. The prevailing thought was that Catholics worship statues, they worship Mary as God, they worship the anti-Christ pope thinking that he is the same as Jesus. The Roman church is the Whore of Babylon in Revelation. I could go on and on and on.
So, I was taught the same lines. Case in point. When I was in college, I dated a girl that grew up nominally Catholic. She asked me to go to Midnight Mass for Christmas. For carnal reasons, I went. The next day, I spent hours praying to God to forgive me for blaspheming Him by going to a “ritual of Satan.”
Long story short, years later I gained an interest in learning about the history of our faith, and that led me to writings by Scott Hahn (oops – it’s over!) and then to the fathers of the Church. I eventually came home. After 10 years, my parents also came home this past Easter. Praise God!
The problem is that we (and I say “we”) Catholics do not do enough to evangelize the faith as Truth teaches us. The laity is not out there preaching the gospel as we know it. The laity is not out there saying, “Hey, folks, this is the True teaching … from the True Church that Christ founded. And yes, He founded the Church!”
We need to be bold, not afraid to buck political correctness and say that, yes, the Catholic Church is the source of faith and salvation. Pope Francis himself said it – outside of the Church, no one can know Jesus! Come on, Catholics – let’s get out there and evangelize!
This is the longest post for me on CAF. Sorry.
Love in Christ,
Trevor
As stated, I have a Pentecostal background. My grandma, a holy woman who I know is in heaven, was ignorant about the Church. My mother (more on this in a bit) grew up very anti-Catholic. The prevailing thought was that Catholics worship statues, they worship Mary as God, they worship the anti-Christ pope thinking that he is the same as Jesus. The Roman church is the Whore of Babylon in Revelation. I could go on and on and on.
So, I was taught the same lines. Case in point. When I was in college, I dated a girl that grew up nominally Catholic. She asked me to go to Midnight Mass for Christmas. For carnal reasons, I went. The next day, I spent hours praying to God to forgive me for blaspheming Him by going to a “ritual of Satan.”
Long story short, years later I gained an interest in learning about the history of our faith, and that led me to writings by Scott Hahn (oops – it’s over!) and then to the fathers of the Church. I eventually came home. After 10 years, my parents also came home this past Easter. Praise God!
The problem is that we (and I say “we”) Catholics do not do enough to evangelize the faith as Truth teaches us. The laity is not out there preaching the gospel as we know it. The laity is not out there saying, “Hey, folks, this is the True teaching … from the True Church that Christ founded. And yes, He founded the Church!”
We need to be bold, not afraid to buck political correctness and say that, yes, the Catholic Church is the source of faith and salvation. Pope Francis himself said it – outside of the Church, no one can know Jesus! Come on, Catholics – let’s get out there and evangelize!
This is the longest post for me on CAF. Sorry.
Love in Christ,
Trevor
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R_C
Guest
I do not mind nor care about his thoughts on “correcting the errors” of the Church
As soon as he starts contradicting the Church Fathers and Church Doctors I stop paying attention to him. I was just mentioning that unlike many protestants, He did honor Our Lady to some degree.Mind you, it is possible that some Catholics do not honor Our Lady properly…there are up to seven erroneous devotions listed by St. Louis de Montfort in “Treaties on True Devotion”. But not the “CC”, whose doctrine simply doesn’t err on matters of faith.
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pocohombre
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pablope
Guest
Luther initially was concerned about abuses in Church practice, mainly with indulgences…which have been corrected.
But Luther went to far, and started to delve into theology.
But then…due to lack of an authority, or a Magisterium, their initial concerns and teachings have been taken to extremes…instead of reforming practice…their successors started throwing their catholic roots…like removing saint statues, removing holy water, not making the sign of the cross…these are just examples of what generally protestants have lost over the centuries…and alot of false and misleading beliefs about Catholics…worship of Mary, of saints…of working our way to heaven…etc.
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pocohombre
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C.S. Lewis wrote, “Those ignorant of history are slaves to the recent past”. I believe the context was papal history. I take it that the image of a Christlike and benevolent pope of our times has not always been so in the past,or it has been mixed with temporal power and a hard edge towards non-Catholic Christians .2000 years is a long time. Remember just in the 1800’s you had popes with an army (of sorts ) and earthly kingdom-the papal states.They also condemned bible societies, reading it the vernacular, as well as being against freedom of conscience,religion and not quite democratic. This was just a century and a half ago. Don’t get me wrong,many popes have been good. The first 5 or 10 were martyed for their faith etc.You must also remember that much of Protestantism allows for the possibilty of any denominational Christian, Catholic alike, to be part of the Body, to be "saved’. Possibility by definition. Whereas by strict CC definition there is no salvation outside the catholic church, though there is some possibilty but very murky trying to have it both ways. That just doesn’t work. By definition those who do not partake of CC real presence can not have eternal life, or have a priest to forgive mortal sins etc etc etc… Can you begin to see part of the reason for your original question/statement?- "Why do Protestants dislike Catholics and say that we worship mary & other statues? They even go so far as to say Catholicism is the “occult”? why are some protestants so hateful towards us? "
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pablope
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Poco…are there many truths or only one truth?
I suggest you read this article and thhe book the article is about: catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0097.html
Why Only Catholicism Can Make Protestantism Work: Louis Bouyer on the Reformation
MARK BRUMLEY
Louis Bouyer contends that the only way to safeguard the positive principles of the Reformation is through the Catholic Church. For only in the Catholic Church are the positive principles the Reformation affirmed found without the negative elements the Reformers mistakenly affixed to them.
Martin Luther
Interpreting the Reformation is complicated business. But like many complicated things, it can be simplified sufficiently well that even non-experts can get the gist of it. Here’s what seems a fairly accurate but simplified summary of the issue: The break between Catholics and Protestants was either a tragic necessity (to use Jaroslav Pelikan’s expression) or it was tragic because unnecessary.
Many Protestants see the Catholic/Protestant split as a tragic necessity, although the staunchly anti-Catholic kind of Protestant often sees nothing tragic about it. Or if he does, the tragedy is that there ever was such a thing as the Roman Catholic Church that the Reformers had to separate from. His motto is “Come out from among them” and five centuries of Christian disunity has done nothing to cool his anti-Roman fervor.
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R_C
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That’s **not **the Catholic teaching, and the Catholic teaching was not developed by the Catholic Church or the papacy, but is part of that Scripture that protestantism has undermined and of that Sacred Tradition that protestantism denies by adhering to “sola scriptura”. The bottom line being that much of protestantism is based on new ideas and concepts, while the Church sticks to an ever-growing, non-contradicting Tradition…one that can take each and every novel protestant idea and refute it as contradictory, unscriptural, and unsound from the standpoint of reason.
It’s very easy to point our fingers at a fact that appears wrong in the modern context without taking into consideration all the other factors of the day. One example: Latin. In a world with very clean-cut languages and the ease to translate texts into those languages, it’s easy to criticize the Church for trying to keep all things in one universal language. But back when we had thousands of odd dialects with no clear grammatical basis, no clear structure, no way to translate the Sacred Scripture into those languages without even taking the risk of desecrating her by conveying erroneous ideas, the Church had her temporary, pastoral reasons to make certain choices. Do they still apply today? Perhaps not. Besides, look at the fruits of the rejection of the teaching authority of the Church: hundreds of mistranslated Bibles, over forty thousand “Christian” denominations, each doing pretty much whatever pleases them more according to “their” understanding of “their” Bible, and 800 million Christians scattered amidst them…is this what God wanted, rather than a nicely organized visible Church with authority to teach and understand Scripture?
You mention the Popes having armies. Have you forgotten what sort of structure we had in the world? Kingdoms and emperors hungry for power. The Pope represented Christianity and was the visible Vicar of the King of Kings. He had to be “in the world while not of the world”. He had to be one of the emperors, in fact the one who could crown and depose them, because all kings and emperors saw their authority coming from God, and he was the representative of God on earth. This also means that he was the only one who could be a mediator between clashing kingdoms and empires. He was the United Nations. If you want to see how God is involved in this aspect of the Church, study what took place at the time of Napoleon.
Does this figure of papacy still apply today? Perhaps not. We’ve seen popes give up the crown and throne quite a few decades ago, and as you can see, in the XX and XXI Century, as monarchies are no longer the way in which countries are organized, we see a papacy no longer looking much as such, with very humble popes that walk amidst the people, travel, dress modestly, and who are giving a greater role to the bishops (though, as in every structure that does not want to fall into chaos, there can be only one man saying the last word). Also we forget way too often who these popes and cardinals and bishops are. Most often they are average people, whom you’d have never expected they would have become overseers of the largest and most ancient Christian community in the world. I mean, just in the last century we had an Italian son of farmers from a town called “Under-the-hill”, a Polish who worked as a miner and studied in a clandestine seminary, an average German kid who embraced consecrated life and whose mind allowed him to become a professor and eventually one of the most brilliant minds of the Church, and now an Argentinian son of two Italian immigrants who chose to become a priest and even as a cardinal archbishop was known for living in a small apartment, cooking his own food, and taking the bus. And if you look at the over 200 popes that came before them, you’ll find that most were quite extraordinary people, and that those who were not up to their office at least never taught anything erroneous in faith and morals regardless of how they behaved…for the office may not fail in teaching, though he who holds it is not made impeccable and may fail in practicing the teachings.
As for the rest of your remarks, I will only say without any fear of being refuted that without the Catholic Church we would not have civilization as we know it today, with its human and civil rights, its democratic principles, its ideas of social justice. We would have that which is slowly approaching as the values of Christianity are slowly declining: a state of nature as described by Hobbes, a purely utilitarian, hedonistic, and relativist society in which the only absolute statement would be: homo homini lupus.
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