Mary

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wngammill

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I know Catholics do not worship Mary as some have implied. But I do know that Catholics pray to Mary. Why is this? Christ does not identify her as divine. Do Catholics pray to her because she gave birth to Christ? That is a pretty bold assumption. When being tortured, Christ said to Mary (identifying John) “Woman behold your son (John), son behold your mother.” Hardly sounds divine. I don’t know it just seems completely blasphemous. :confused:
 
wngammill said:
I know Catholics do not worship Mary as some have implied. But I do know that Catholics pray to Mary. Why is this?. :confused:
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Because Mary is Queen of Heaven. As such, she is able to intecede to the King (Jesus) on behalf of His subjects (us).
Christ does not identify her as divine.
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Correct. Nor do Catholics.
Do Catholics pray to her because she gave birth to Christ? That is a pretty bold assumption. When being tortured, Christ said to Mary (identifying John) “Woman behold your son (John), son behold your mother.” Hardly sounds divine. I don’t know it just seems completely blasphemous
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See above. Appearances can be deceiving.
 
First question would be, what do you mean when you use the word “pray”?
 
Wngamill:

You pray to your mother, father, husband, children and friends, and sometimes to the goverment, federal and local, and it isn’t blasphemy. So what is the probem?

To pray, means to petition, to ask. If I said to you, will you pray for me. You would say, of course. If I say to the Blessed Virgin Mary, will you pray for me. She also says, yes, of course.

The ten commandments say, Thou shalt have no other gods before me, and thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing to adore it.

Adoring and praying are two completely different kettles of fish. We may pray to Mary, just as I might pray to you, but we would never adore her or worship her and there lies the difference.
 
We pray to all of the Saints…all citizens of heaven to intercede for us…In the Hail Mary, for example, the words are “Pray for us, sinners, now…” We ask her to pray to her Son for us…there is nothing divine in our thoughts of her…
 
Prayer isn’t worship – it is communication. Mary, like all the other saints in heaven, are very much alive and belong to the *one *Body of Christ that we belong to as well here on earth. Because Christ’s body isn’t divided, we can communicate with saints in heaven or in purgatory just as we can with saints (fellow Christians) here on earth, which we do through prayer.
 
wngammill said:
I know Catholics do not worship Mary as some have implied. But I do know that Catholics pray to Mary. Why is this? Christ does not identify her as divine. Do Catholics pray to her because she gave birth to Christ? That is a pretty bold assumption. When being tortured, Christ said to Mary (identifying John) “Woman behold your son (John), son behold your mother.” Hardly sounds divine. I don’t know it just seems completely blasphemous. :confused:
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While on the cross, Jesus gave Mary to John (who represents all of mankind and/or the Church) and vice versa - so Mary was just made our spiritual mother. This makes Jesus’ mother John’s mother, and our mother as well. And if Mary is the mother of Jesus, and the Mother of mankind / Church, that makes us brothers with Jesus. Pretty awesome. And you thought Jesus was denigrating his mother? He wouldn’t do that, it would violate “Honor thy father and thy mother.” Or do you believe that Jesus wasn’t perfect?

And of course, Mary is the new ark of the covenant. And God’s most perfect created being. And queen of heaven. And the new Eve. etc.

So we have a lot of respect (but not worship) for our mother, Jesus’ mother - Mary.
 
Wngamill - I think St. Louis Marie de Montfort said it best (though perhaps not FIRST): God chose to send the Savior to us through Mary; is it not then a good idea for us to return to Him through her? Remember that at Cana, Christ told His mother that His time had not yet come, but he granted her request. Someone at the wedding had made known to her the wine problem (that is, he/she ‘prayed’ to her about it). Jesus loves his mother, and follows her requests. Thus when we pray to her, we do so knowing two things: first, she will not ask for things that are not of benefit to our spiritual growth; and second, what she does ask, He will grant.

I want to add here that I have heard a pastor from a Calvary Chapel argue that Mary is “human” and could not possibly respond to the millions of petitions made to her each day. From my limited knowledge, I would argue that Mary is now more than human. We Christians can call ourselves part of the ‘body of Chirst’ on earth, which the Church also represents. As such, Mary is now in Heaven, which makes her a ‘perfect’ part of that body. As such, she is fully united with God, and thus able to hear ALL petitions to her. We on earth, in contrast, are only imperfect parts of Christ’s body. When we are ‘perfected’ (made perfect as our Heavenly Father is), we too will be in perfect union with Him.
 
wngammill said:
I know Catholics do not worship Mary as some have implied. But I do know that Catholics pray to Mary. Why is this? Christ does not identify her as divine. Do Catholics pray to her because she gave birth to Christ? That is a pretty bold assumption. When being tortured, Christ said to Mary (identifying John) “Woman behold your son (John), son behold your mother.” Hardly sounds divine. I don’t know it just seems completely blasphemous. :confused:
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I know you do not mean anything negative.

Mary is NOT divine and has no magic powers. No faithful Catholic believes she does either. Yes you see excess with some Catholics but you do with Pentecostals (handling snakes) and faith healers as well. Can’t characterize Protestantism by those folks.

Many Roman Catholics, Anglicans and Eastern Orthodox do pray for her intercession. Why? Because we believe there is life after death and (as in the book of Revelation) saints can hear and offer our prayers up to God (that is from scripture). We are simply being scriptural. Do you not ask your mother or friend to pray for you (millions of Protestants do). Catholics, Anglicans and Eastern Orthodox believe in the Communion of Saints because we believe the bible and in eternal life.

Mary is venerated as a very faithful women who said “yes” to God and endured a heavy cost for her faithfulness.

Even the Rosary is Gospel based and solidly points toward Christ (events in His life). The words of the Hail Mary are from scripture as are the meditations.

So we just take our cue from scripture.
 
Marsha_Adams said:
Wngamill:

You pray to your mother, father, husband, children and friends, and sometimes to the goverment, federal and local, and it isn’t blasphemy. So what is the probem?
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Was there a typo here? I don’t know anyone you prays to someone here on earth. That would be a problem.
 
Okay, but who says she is a saint? The pope?

Regarding “the pope,” do you really think Christ would approve of the luxurious life of the figure? NO WHERE in the bible does Christ direct Paul to create a multimillion dollar building (The Vatican- where many died in the production of). HOW in the world do you get the “pope” from “on this rock I build my church.”? I feel that Catholics are assuming divinity when it is not expressed in Scripture. And WHERE does he get the ability to “bless” people?
 
wngammill said:
Okay, but who says she is a saint? The pope?

Regarding “the pope,” do you really think Christ would approve of the luxurious life of the figure? NO WHERE in the bible does Christ direct Paul to create a multimillion dollar building (The Vatican- where many died in the production of). HOW in the world do you get the “pope” from “on this rock I build my church.”? I feel that Catholics are assuming divinity when it is not expressed in Scripture. And WHERE does he get the ability to “bless” people?
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Stay on topic, please. If you’ll bother to read the forums a bit before making such statements, you’ll find that most of them have already been addressed.
 
MH84 said:
Was there a typo here? I don’t know anyone you prays to someone here on earth. That would be a problem.
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Read any Supreme Court case file - everyone who lodges a case there ‘prays to’ the court for whatever outcome they want for their case there. It’s standard terminology. ‘Pray’ simply means ask. So even in non-religious contexts you’d better believe people ‘pray to’ each other all the time.
 
MH84 said:
Was there a typo here? I don’t know anyone you prays to someone here on earth. That would be a problem.
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read the entire post. Don’t just pick out a “verse” that supports your preconceived ideas.
 
I listen to a Christian radio station on the drive into work, and at 10 am every day they invite a guest pastor to pray for intentions of listeners, who either call or e-mail their prayer requests. He then mentions the caller by first name, states the nature of the request (for Joe who is having surgery tomorrow, for Sue who has problems with her job) etc., and says spontaneous prayers of his own composition which are appropriate for the needs expressed.

Why on earth would these people call this pastor for prayer? Jesus is the only mediator with God, so why would these well meaning sincere, bible-believing Christians join in prayer together for these individuals and all others in our area, rather than just individually going to Christ himself? Is that not an abuse and misreading of the biblical injunction on praying?
 
wngammill said:
Okay, but who says she is a saint? The pope?

Regarding “the pope,” do you really think Christ would approve of the luxurious life of the figure? NO WHERE in the bible does Christ direct Paul to create a multimillion dollar building (The Vatican- where many died in the production of). HOW in the world do you get the “pope” from “on this rock I build my church.”? I feel that Catholics are assuming divinity when it is not expressed in Scripture. And WHERE does he get the ability to “bless” people?
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Welcome to CAF wngammil. I hope you are here to learn about the Catholic faith, and not just to bash our beliefs. you have broken a forum rule here by posting off topic. I recommend that you read the forum rules (if you intend to stay). You can search first for a keyword (like “pope” and then choose a thread on this topic. I noticed there is one this morning.

Jesus is the one who makes and keeps saints. Do you think that Mary’s faith is less than yours? Do you think she was not a saintly woman?
 
MH84 said:
Well, I have never prayed to anyone on earth. If you do, that’s your business.
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The word “prayer” in this context does not mean worship, but intercession. Whenever you ask a friend or family member for prayer, you “beseech” them. You desire their prayers on you behalf.

If you don’t allow others to pray with you, and for you, I am wondering why not?
 
guanophore said:
The word “prayer” in this context does not mean worship, but intercession. Whenever you ask a friend or family member for prayer, you “beseech” them. You desire their prayers on you behalf.

If you don’t allow others to pray with you, and for you, I am wondering why not?
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I can pray for someone, or someone may pray for me. If someone said they are praying to me, I would be quite alarmed. :cool:
 
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