Mary

[thinkandmull]

Alphonsus Liguori said that even God obeys Mary’s wishes. I see that now, for otherwise we have an Allah with no humility. Now I believe in purgatory, but could these theological matters affect the question about the eternal destiny of people?

 

[zz912]

I don’t see how. God showing His humility and obedience to Mary doesn’t eliminate or end His ultimate authority over everything.

I give my children authority to make some decisions about what we are going to do, or how they will act. But that doesn’t mean that I have lost any of my authority as their parent.

Jesus showed perfect humility and respect by giving authority over Himself to Mary to raise Him. He also gives us humans today that same authority every single day. He comes, really, truly and physically in the Eucharist. He gives us His Body and Blood in complete trust that we will take care of Him, and minister to Him properly.

That doesn’t mean we have ultimate authority over Him though.

 

[thinkandmull]

If Mary, thru grace and by God, has equal say with God, would she send someone to hell??

 

[thinkandmull]

The Bible says they are cast into hell. And at least they are not annihilated, so that’s a sending of sorts too…

 

[Ed_Silvia]

Alphonsus Liguori said that even God obeys Mary’s wishes. I see that now, for otherwise we have an Allah with no humility. Now I believe in purgatory, but could these theological matters affect the question about the eternal destiny of people?

When we die St Mary will either be there on our behalf when we go before Her Son to be judged or not. I most certainly want Her there. Why wouldn’t I? So yes, She can have a positive affect on any soul’s eternal destiny.

 

[zz912]

If Mary, thru grace and by God, has equal say with God, would she send someone to hell??

Mary doesn’t have equal say, and would reject any claim that she did. God alone is the Judge. She can certainly advocate for us, and pray for us to God, so we would be smart to ask for her prayers. But she isn’t the one who will judge us at the end of our lives.

And God doesn’t send us to hell, we choose that on our own. God confirms our choice and makes it permanent. He never forces His love on anyone and respects our wish to not be with Him if we so choose.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Alphonsus Liguori said that even God obeys Mary’s wishes.

Can you cite that? I would like to read it in context.

I know that Alphonsus Liguori is known for going “over the top” with effusive language about Mary. But, to suggest that God’s will is subordinate to Mary’s will is heresy, and suggests that Mary has authority greater than Jesus had in the Garden (when Jesus prayed, “your will, not mine, be done”)

 

[Mintaka]

None of the saints in Heaven would ever will anything contrary to God’s will, so Mary would never ask God for something God was not willing to give. Similarly, out of courtesy, God would never ask the saints in Heaven for anything they were unwilling to do.

The saints in Heaven are part of Christ’s Body, and they know that and act accordingly. That’s part of why they’re so good at interceding for us.

 

[TimothyH]

Can you cite that? I would like to read it in context.

I know that Alphonsus Liguori is known for going “over the top” with effusive language about Mary. But, to suggest that God’s will is subordinate to Mary’s will is heresy, and suggests that Mary has authority greater than Jesus had in the Garden (when Jesus prayed, “your will, not mine, be done”)

Nobody said that God’s will is subordinate to Mary’s will. Those are your words.

God obeys the priest at every Mass, at the epiclesis, when the priest says “Let your spirit come upon these gifts” and it happens. God obeys the priest when he says the words taught to him with the intent to confect the Eucharist and God makes it happen. This authority has been delegated to the priest. God trusts his priests. It is no different from a manager saying that he trusts the decision of the people he hired.

Mary has been delegated a role in our salvation. Authority has been granted to her, to distribute grace to those in need. God trusts Mary because Mary’s will is always in accord with Jesus’ will.

-Tim-