Mary

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I did a search for this answer because I know it has been brought up but I couldn’t find it.

What do you say to someone who claims that Catholics worship mary?

I said that the RCC has always condemned the worship of anyone other than God, and that Catholics simply give honor where honor is due. Obviously this wasnt enough or I wouldnt be here, so what do you guys say when someone tells you that Catholics woship Mary…

BTW this came from someone who said he kinda followed Catholicism for 35 years. I pointed out that he said “kinda” but he quickly said that is not what he meant. Any thoughts thanks.

 

[thistle]

Roman_Catholic:

I did a search for this answer because I know it has been brought up but I couldn’t find it.

What do you say to someone who claims that Catholics worship mary?

I said that the RCC has always condemned the worship of anyone other than God, and that Catholics simply give honor where honor is due. Obviously this wasnt enough or I wouldnt be here, so what do you guys say when someone tells you that Catholics woship Mary…

BTW this came from someone who said he kinda followed Catholicism for 35 years. I pointed out that he said “kinda” but he quickly said that is not what he meant. Any thoughts thanks.

Its quite simple. We do NOT worship Mary. That would be a mortal sin against the first commandment.

 

[Crumpy]

The response to this question would be lengthy, because there is so much evidence to be given.

Now, I don’t recall where it is in the documents of Vatican II, but the Fathers said something to the effect that the devotion to Mary should not be excessive.

having said that, you will still note all the parishes dedicated to the patronage of Mary throughout the Church.

Look also at Mary’s prayer (the “Magnificat”) in the first chapters of the gospel of St. Luke. She said all generations would call her blessed.

Look at the gospel accounts of Jesus’ crucifixion. Jesus commends His mother to the blessed disciple – that’s us! That’s a spiritual interpretation of the Bible. Protestants and other dissidents shy away from spiritual interpretations of the bible, except ones that they have reserved to themselves in advance – specifically non-Catholic and often anti-Catholic in nature.

I would recommend that you get your hands on a copy of Karl Keating’s CATHOLICISM AND FUNDAMENTALISM and look over the short chapters on Mary. Keating is fairly direct in his exposition. He lists other books that may help you as well.

 

[JezCat]

First, I would tell them that Catholics do not worship Mary. Then I would ask them to define worship in their own words because I believe there is where the problem lies. NC’s confuse veneration with worship. They also confuse prayer with worship believing that if you pray to someone then you must be worshipping them.

Ask them to detail how we are supposedly “worshipping” Mary?

 

[JimG]

JezCat:

First, I would tell them that Catholics do not worship Mary. Then I would ask them to define worship in their own words because I believe there is where the problem lies. NC’s confuse veneration with worship. They also confuse prayer with worship believing that if you pray to someone then you must be worshipping them.

Ask them to detail how we are supposedly “worshipping” Mary?

Yes, it’s critical to make distinctions in terms. I recall being startled to come across a book written some time ago by a Catholic priest (redemptorist?–can’t remember now), with the title: “The Worship of Mary.”

In skimming through the introduction, I noticed that he defended his use of the term “worship” because he thought she was due much greater honor than the saints, but not the adoration (latria) due only to God. What he meant by the term was what would be now called “hyperdulia”–a high degree of veneration, but not the worship due the Creator.

He even chided those who disparaged this high degree of veneration, by saying the problem is not that the Church gives too much honor to Mary, but that others give too little to God.

When mere prayer is defined as “worship,” I can see his point.

I knew a priest that used to prostrate himself on the floor in adoration of God. He did not do that in prayer to Mary.

 

[threadkiller]

Roman_Catholic:

I did a search for this answer because I know it has been brought up but I couldn’t find it.

What do you say to someone who claims that Catholics worship mary?

I said that the RCC has always condemned the worship of anyone other than God, and that Catholics simply give honor where honor is due. Obviously this wasnt enough or I wouldnt be here, so what do you guys say when someone tells you that Catholics woship Mary…

BTW this came from someone who said he kinda followed Catholicism for 35 years. I pointed out that he said “kinda” but he quickly said that is not what he meant. Any thoughts thanks.

We don’t treat her like God. We treat her like the “Ark of God”. 2 Sam 6.9 > Luke 1.43. Solomon actually built the temple for the ark. 2 Sam 7.1-3, 1 Kings 8.6.
Why do you think the wise men prostrated themselves in front of Mary? Matt.2.11 I think this verse is prefigured in Joshua 7.6 when Joshua and the elders of Israel prostrate themselves in front of the ark. These verses tell us who Jesus is and why devotion to Mary is vital to our faith.In Joshua 7.6 Joshua and the elders prostrate themselves in front of the ark and worship God. In Matt.2.11 The wise men prostrate themselves in front of Mary and worship Jesus. If Mary is the ark then Jesus is God.
Know Mary, Know Jesus.

 

[hurst]

This is a touchy topic, but one must realize that historically speaking, we did apply the term “worship” towards Mary and the Saints, as well as to God and to the magistrate.

“Worship” had a more general meaning of “attributing value to”, or “worth-ness”. In that sense, it is actually very important to “worship” the saints, because it redounds to the honor of God and acknowledges the creature as separate from God while yet being united to His Will. Without this kind of “worship”, the world would fall to pantheism and atheism.

However, the word “worship” no longer carries such a general meaning, and so now Catholics tend to deny that we worship Mary or the saints. Meanwhile, Protestants look up the issue in history books and determine that we are either lying or ignorant, and do not trust that we won’t later tell them to do it if they join the Church. So it is important, I think, to say both “yes” and “no”, and explain this situation. Adamant denials will not help with those familiar with historical documents.

hurst

 

[Will_Pick]

thistle:

Its quite simple. We do NOT worship Mary. That would be a mortal sin against the first commandment.

If Catholics worship Mary then it will be written some place,ask him to show yoy in writting that said Catholic worship Mary.
He can’t because Catholics do not worship Mary.
Jesus is God,Mary is the Mother of God so as Catholics we honor the mother of Our Lord,end of story.

 

[asteroid]

To show how the meaning of “worship” has changed and become more specific (as hurst eloquently explained), here’s an example from the King James Bible where Jesus appears to tell us that we should act in such a way that we might be worshipped.

But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. (Lk14:10)

In the sense of “worship” in this verse, we worship Mary - and do so greatly. In the sense of “worship” as commonly understood in today’s churches, we do not worship Mary and never have done. If only the past use of the word couldn’t be twisted to make it look like a Catholic “heresy”.

Of course, no one would ever claim that “worship” in this verse means what we would understand it to mean now.

echoing the recommendation of the Keating book.

Another book I recommend - it helped me *a lot *- is “Christ’s Mother and Ours” by Oscar Lukefahr. It is pretty cheap, and very, very clear. Or it can be obtained - for rather less - from the Catholic Home Study Service. Actually all of Lukefahr’s books are very good. Others will have their favourite books about Mary too.

Sidetrack: I got annoyed in my RCIA period when reading a little book about Faustina and the Divine Mercy devotion. It wasn’t well translated and talked about the benefits of “worshipping” the image. The publishers (the Catholic Truth Society) have promised to alter this in any future printing. But the use of the word got me worried for a while - what if Catholicism really is wrong and idolatrous. People on this site did a good job setting me straight.

 

[threadkiller]

hurst:

This is a touchy topic, but one must realize that historically speaking, we did apply the term “worship” towards Mary and the Saints, as well as to God and to the magistrate.

“Worship” had a more general meaning of “attributing value to”, or “worth-ness”. In that sense, it is actually very important to “worship” the saints, because it redounds to the honor of God and acknowledges the creature as separate from God while yet being united to His Will. Without this kind of “worship”, the world would fall to pantheism and atheism.

However, the word “worship” no longer carries such a general meaning, and so now Catholics tend to deny that we worship Mary or the saints. Meanwhile, Protestants look up the issue in history books and determine that we are either lying or ignorant, and do not trust that we won’t later tell them to do it if they join the Church. So it is important, I think, to say both “yes” and “no”, and explain this situation. Adamant denials will not help with those familiar with historical documents.

hurst

Tell them that no one in th Old Testament was accused of worshipping the “ark of God”, although it was misused in a superstitious manner. I Sam 4.1-11, which is idolatry.
Our devotion to Mary is biblical. As I stated in my previously ignored post, Solomon built a temple for the Ark, 2 Sam 7.1-3, 1 Kings 8.6, the way the New Testament Solomon builds a temple to the “Ark”. John 19.27. Tell them that as temples of God 1 Cor 6.19, that all baptized christians are called to have a place for Mary.1 Kings 8.6, John 19.27. Or just ignore this post as well and continue the debate on the meaning of the word worship.
The threadkiller has struck again. Good day.

 

[volzcpa]

Roman_Catholic:

I did a search for this answer because I know it has been brought up but I couldn’t find it.

What do you say to someone who claims that Catholics worship mary?

I said that the RCC has always condemned the worship of anyone other than God, and that Catholics simply give honor where honor is due. Obviously this wasnt enough or I wouldnt be here, so what do you guys say when someone tells you that Catholics woship Mary…

BTW this came from someone who said he kinda followed Catholicism for 35 years. I pointed out that he said “kinda” but he quickly said that is not what he meant. Any thoughts thanks.

Here is a tract that may help.

catholic.com/library/Saint_Worship.asp

 

[MarySon]

Of course we do not worship Mary. We simply place her in a special place of honor. Consider the following:

1. Jesus growing up follow the Decalogue. So he definately Honored His Mother and Father.
2. We as Christians are to follow Christ and to imitate Christ. So since Christ honored Mary, so should we.

 

[Montie_Claunch]

JimG:

Yes, it’s critical to make distinctions in terms. I recall being startled to come across a book written some time ago by a Catholic priest (redemptorist?–can’t remember now), with the title: “The Worship of Mary.”

In skimming through the introduction, I noticed that he defended his use of the term “worship” because he thought she was due much greater honor than the saints, but not the adoration (latria) due only to God. What he meant by the term was what would be now called “hyperdulia”–a high degree of veneration, but not the worship due the Creator.

He even chided those who disparaged this high degree of veneration, by saying the problem is not that the Church gives too much honor to Mary, but that others give too little to God.

When mere prayer is defined as “worship,” I can see his point.

I knew a priest that used to prostrate himself on the floor in adoration of God. He did not do that in prayer to Mary.

What is the name of the Preist that wrote the book at the beggining of your post? I would like to look at it. Thanks.