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NewPerspective
Guest
Does the CC teach that Mary was without sin?
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Dempsey1919
Guest
Holy Mother Church teaches that Mary was conceived without original sin and that she remained sinless for the duration of her natural life.
It is important to remember that all of the dogmas of the Church are linked. Without a knowledge of original sin, it is impossible to understand the redemptive work of Christ. Without understanding the hypostatic union of Christ, you will not comprehend the need of the Immaculate Conception.
Do not take one aspect of theology and look at it as distinct and separate from the rest.
Our beliefs about Mary are all related to her relationship with Christ. All of the doctrines concerning Mary lead to a greater appreciation of her son, the Christ.
It is important to remember that all of the dogmas of the Church are linked. Without a knowledge of original sin, it is impossible to understand the redemptive work of Christ. Without understanding the hypostatic union of Christ, you will not comprehend the need of the Immaculate Conception.
Do not take one aspect of theology and look at it as distinct and separate from the rest.
Our beliefs about Mary are all related to her relationship with Christ. All of the doctrines concerning Mary lead to a greater appreciation of her son, the Christ.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
We Muslims believe that Mary was also sinless:
66:11] Allah sets forth an example for those who disbelieve, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. They were under two righteous servants of Ours, but they acted treacherously to them. So they availed them naught against Allah, and it was said to them, ‘Enter the Fire, ye twain, along with those who enter it.’
[66:12] And Allah holds forth as an example, for those who believe, the wife of Pharaoh when she said, 'My Lord! build for me a house with Thee in the Garden; and deliver me from Pharaoh and his work, and deliver me from the wrongdoing people;
[66:13] And sets forth as an example Mary, the daughter of Imr›n, who guarded her chastity - so We breathed into him of Our Spirit -and she fulfilled the prophecy conveyed to her in the words of her Lord contained in His Books and she was one of the obedient.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=66&verse=10
Thanks
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Dempsey1919
Guest
Protestants have a big problem with Mary’s sinlessness. I can understand why.
However, it isn’t that absurd when you think of it this way:
Imagine carrying God Incarnate in your womb. Imagine nursing Jesus in your arms. Imagine making him laugh and soothing him when he cries. Imagine picking him up after he falls. Imagine knowing God in the most intimate way humanly possible.
There was only one creature who knew God in this way and that was Mary. She was the God-Bearer, the Theotokos. She knew Jesus better than anyone else. He received his humanity from her.
If you lived with God Incarnate and if God Incarnate called you mother, would you sin? In her daily life of work and play, Mary was able to constantly adore the living God in the personage of Jesus Christ.
However, it isn’t that absurd when you think of it this way:
Imagine carrying God Incarnate in your womb. Imagine nursing Jesus in your arms. Imagine making him laugh and soothing him when he cries. Imagine picking him up after he falls. Imagine knowing God in the most intimate way humanly possible.
There was only one creature who knew God in this way and that was Mary. She was the God-Bearer, the Theotokos. She knew Jesus better than anyone else. He received his humanity from her.
If you lived with God Incarnate and if God Incarnate called you mother, would you sin? In her daily life of work and play, Mary was able to constantly adore the living God in the personage of Jesus Christ.
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Jimmy_B
Guest
Mary always did the “will of our heavenly Father” and is by Jesus’ definition His “brother, and sister, and mother “(His loyal servant, follower and disciple).
**Mary is the Mother of God and Jesus’ disciple. She was even present during Pentecost! She is the only person who ever lived that was with Jesus from the beginning until the end. **
**She never denied him nor left Him. One would be hard pressed to demonstrate a finer example of a person who has completely surrendered himself/herself to the will of God as Mary. **
**She was truly in love with her Son Jesus and whom from the beginning, knew He was “God with us”. **
She loved/loves Jesus our Lord and her son with all of her being and was completely devoted to Jesus.
Mary was one of Jesus’ greatest followers and disciples and His mother.
Show me an instance, where, in Mary’s life, she wasn’t the perfect example of; the meaning of “Following God’s Will”; or where she commit sin. It isn’t there!
**Mary was the one chosen (hand-picked) by God from all time and all women, to be the Mother of God. **
**Mary was the Mother of God and a loyal and faithful follower of Christ. **
**She was the Mother of God, a believer and disciple of Christ, her son. **
**Mary is the Mother of God and Jesus’ disciple. She was even present during Pentecost! She is the only person who ever lived that was with Jesus from the beginning until the end. **
**She never denied him nor left Him. One would be hard pressed to demonstrate a finer example of a person who has completely surrendered himself/herself to the will of God as Mary. **
**She was truly in love with her Son Jesus and whom from the beginning, knew He was “God with us”. **
She loved/loves Jesus our Lord and her son with all of her being and was completely devoted to Jesus.
Mary was one of Jesus’ greatest followers and disciples and His mother.
Show me an instance, where, in Mary’s life, she wasn’t the perfect example of; the meaning of “Following God’s Will”; or where she commit sin. It isn’t there!
**Mary was the one chosen (hand-picked) by God from all time and all women, to be the Mother of God. **
**Mary was the Mother of God and a loyal and faithful follower of Christ. **
**She was the Mother of God, a believer and disciple of Christ, her son. **
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NewPerspective
Guest
I dont really know if I would recognize Mary as the Mother of God, seeing as shes not referred to as that in Scripture. Yes she is the Mother of Jesus and yes Jesus is God, but God was around for a lot longer than Mary. God is the Father of Mary so I contend that its impossible for her to be the Mother of God. God had these plans before the foundation of the Earth. But I do recognize her as an awesome woman of God, a very special vessel used by God, and a radical example of how we should follow Jesus. The CC puts Mary above the average man correct? And yes she is blessed amongst women, but i think its obvious that shes blessed, she was chosen to be the vessel that God came into the world through as Jesus. Thats a blessing in itself, even if it stopped there but I do believe that great is Mary’s reward for both what God chose her to do and what she did willingly as it relates to her love and close following of Christ. I dont know any of this im just speculating with the help of Scripture, so dont take this as im attacking Mary or saying shes not special, cuz I know she is. I just dont know that I would call her the Mother of GOD being that He is her Father and that she was sinless for the rest of days. I just want to see it in scripture, if someone can show me some definitive proof in The Word, i would be more than happy to believe that. Thanks Guys.
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FCEGM
Guest
These three articles will better help you understand why the Church teaches as it does about Mary being Immaculately Conceived and her sinlessness:
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9112fea1.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0102sbs.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9209fea2.asp
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Love_is_Patient
Guest
Maybe this can help. The reason we call her the Mother of God and not merely the Mother of Jesus is because, oh, about 1500 years ago there were some heretics who denied that Jesus was God and thought that Mary was just the mother of a mere man. Thus, to emphasize that Jesus is GOD, we like to call her the Mother of God. That doesn’t deny that God created her. That just emphasizes that Jesus was God when he was in her womb. (Remember, John the Baptist leapt in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary visited.)
Hope that helps. God Bless!
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Love_is_Patient
Guest
Oh, and thank you for respecting her for being an amazing woman. It’s nice that we can agree on that at least. 
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rpp
Guest
“Mary the Mother of God”. Hmm… I am not sure what else I could the woman who bore her own creator, yet remained a virgin after she was before.
And did not Elizabeth, when Mary came to visit call Mary “the Mother of my Lord”?
And did not Elizabeth, when Mary came to visit call Mary “the Mother of my Lord”?
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Della
Guest
Of course Mary didn’t precede God in creation. The Catholic Church doesn’t teach that she did. The title “Mother of God” comes from the Council of Ephesus which grappled with the nature of Jesus because a large number of Christian people were either unsure about his nature or wanted to teach that Jesus was merely a man who was touched by divinity, not the God-man. The Bible doesn’t make this clear, although the Church Fathers had all taught that Jesus was true God and true man, as well as the Apostles.
The Council decided to end the controversy by declaring that Jesus was true God and true man from the instant of his conception in the womb of Mary. Therefore they gave Mary the title “Theotokos” which means “God-bearer” and which the Latin translates as “Mother of God.” And since we are Latin Rite Catholics we use the term “Mother of God.” We see by this that the titles of Mary have been given to her to teach some aspect about the nature and mission of her Son, not merely to honor her.
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flyersfan1088
Guest
Luke 1:43
And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
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planten
Guest
**Good posts all around in praise of Mary. The Quran also describes her as sinless honorable lady who was pure from the very start without any struggle. I mean she was never tempted / disturbed by the Devil (Al Shaitan) at any time. And she never had to grapple with the Devil. Devil never came near her.
Perhaps the christians believe otherwise. But what i have written is true according to an important Hadith and it is supported by the Quran. The believers are of two types. Mary belonged to the first class (high class) of believers. I can present the Hadith and explain this important matter if required.**
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bpbasilphx
Guest
<<Hi
We Muslims believe that Mary was also sinless:
[66:13] And sets forth as an example Mary, the daughter of Imr›n, who guarded her chastity - so We breathed into him of Our Spirit -and she fulfilled the prophecy conveyed to her in the words of her Lord contained in His Books and she was one of the obedient. >>
But you don’t believe in the REAL Mary who is truly the Mother of Jesus Who is God Incarnate. Besides, Mary’s father’s name was Joachim.
That is just one of the many errors in the Koran.
I confess there is no God but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate.
We Muslims believe that Mary was also sinless:
[66:13] And sets forth as an example Mary, the daughter of Imr›n, who guarded her chastity - so We breathed into him of Our Spirit -and she fulfilled the prophecy conveyed to her in the words of her Lord contained in His Books and she was one of the obedient. >>
But you don’t believe in the REAL Mary who is truly the Mother of Jesus Who is God Incarnate. Besides, Mary’s father’s name was Joachim.
That is just one of the many errors in the Koran.
I confess there is no God but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate.
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Alexius
Guest
Not necessarily that he was a mere man, but that he in someway was not incarnate from the moment of conception (I think that’s what you were saying). In other words, it covers any and all heresies from Nestorianism (that is the main reason for calling Mary “Theotokos,” rather than “Christotokos” at the Council of Ephesus in 431) to Adoptionism…Do I need to clarify further?Maybe this can help. The reason we call her the Mother of God and not merely the Mother of Jesus is because, oh, about 1500 years ago there were some heretics who denied that Jesus was God and thought that Mary was just the mother of a mere man. Thus, to emphasize that Jesus is GOD, we like to call her the Mother of God. That doesn’t deny that God created her. That just emphasizes that Jesus was God when he was in her womb. (Remember, John the Baptist leapt in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary visited.)
Hope that helps. God Bless!
This is more to the OP: Furthermore, “Theotokos” is a term that speaks not of Mary as the source of God, but rather the vessel. Does this make sense?
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
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paarsurrey
Guest
bpbasilphx;3128827 said:
Hi
Quran emphasizes following qualities of Mary:
- She was a chaste woman.
- So she selected by GodAllahYHWH to receive Word from Him that is indicated by the words” We breathed into him of Our Spirit”.
- This quality is further elaborated” -and she fulfilled the prophecy conveyed to her in the words of her Lord contained in His Books.”
- And she was one of the obedient.
So her spiritual qualities are emphasized by Quran in the verses rather the physical ones.
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Dempsey1919
Guest
As I said previously, all of the doctrines of the faith are connected to one another. It is impossible to take one doctrine and attempt to understand it separately from the rest. So it is with the doctrines about Mary. It is necessary to know who Jesus is in order to comprehend who and what Mary is.
Many protestants object to the title “Mother of God.” I will attempt to explain the meaning behind this term.
In order to understand what this term means, it is probably best to know what it doesn’t mean. When we say Mother of God, we do not mean that Mary came before God and that she helped to create him. God needs nothing, he just is. He is the first and the last. Everything that Mary has was given to her as a creature. Without God, she is nothing just as we are nothing.
In order to understand the title “Mother of God” you must first understand the doctrines concerning Christ. The Church teaches that Jesus was both God and Man; he was fully human in every way and fully God in every way. He is not a demigod or a super human. He is FULLY human the same as we are, but he is also FULLY God. This is known in theology as the Hypostatic Union.
The second person of the Trinity existed from the beginning. He is eternal. However, the humanity of Jesus came from Mary; she gave him his flesh in the natural human way. Mary carried God the Son in her womb and gave birth to his flesh nine months later. Jesus was fully human; he was born the same way we were but he received his flesh from a mother only; he did not have a biological father. Jesus received his human nature from his mother, Mary.
Mary is the true mother of Jesus because Jesus is truly a man. However, Jesus is also God. Therefore, it would be correct to say that Mary is the Mother of God. She is not the creator of his divinity but the giver of his humanity.
To deny that Mary is the Mother of God is to deny both the divinity and humanity of Christ.
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planten
Guest
Mary may have been the daughter of Joachim. Quran describes her as the daughter of Imran. But Quran describes her as the daughter (descendent) of Imran. This needs further investigation about Imran. I feel that Imran is some one who was the father of Aaron, or an Israeli in Egypt in that time. Mary is mentioned as the sister of Aaron in 19:28. That was because of her duties (service) in the temple were same as those of Aaron and his children, the Levites.
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NewPerspective
Guest
Woah Woah… When someone, dont remember the name of the poster, was speaking of God choosing Mary he or she linked the God of the Muslim religion, Allah, and the One True God. The God of the Muslim religion is NOT the God of all creation. Believe that. Even though Allah may mean God in arabic it definitely does not me the God of The Bible. Just wanted to clear that up real fast.
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joseph_virgen
Guest
While learning to find my way, i never could picture Mary. No matter how hard i tried, i simply could not. Somehow pure and sinless failed to do her justice. Unlike the Nazarene, with his many stories, i had no way of making a true representation of Mary
Knowingly i prayed, contemplated and after many years i began to know Mary.
Here was a child, no more than fourteen years of age, pregnant with a son which was not her husband’s. In all likelyhood not very educated, living within occupied territory. Then, though living under those harsh conditions was not enought, she uprooted and lived as a refugee in an unknown country. This Mary was a survivor, a true fighter! One who was strong willed, not the wallflower i had encountered earlier in my youth.
Mary became real to me.
Knowingly i prayed, contemplated and after many years i began to know Mary.
Here was a child, no more than fourteen years of age, pregnant with a son which was not her husband’s. In all likelyhood not very educated, living within occupied territory. Then, though living under those harsh conditions was not enought, she uprooted and lived as a refugee in an unknown country. This Mary was a survivor, a true fighter! One who was strong willed, not the wallflower i had encountered earlier in my youth.
Mary became real to me.
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