Mary's Dormition/Assumption in Eastern Catholic theology

[Aramis]

Just FYI: Eastern CATHOLICS accept the doctrines of Purgatory and the Assumption (we call it the Dormition). It’s Eastern ORTHODOX that have different beliefs about those things.

Actually, we accept the dogmas, but not all EC’s accept the derived doctrines. Roman doctrine specifies explicitly that Mary was assumed whole - both body and soul still together - while Byzantine is explicitly that they were separately assumed.

In both cases, the promulgated propers are not the dogmatic definitions, but doctrines separate from and grounded in the dogmas.

The purgatorial dogma is that purgatory is a place or state of contuinued purification from the stains of our sins after death.

The dogma of the assumption is that Mary was taken up to heaven, and is in a perfected body already. Whether she got there in one or two parts is immaterial to the dogma, but is a key doctrinal difference between the byzantine churches and Rome. One which, for the EC’s, is accepted as being a different doctrin teaching the same dogmatic truths, but which the orthodox reject as they cannot or will not distinguish between the doctrines and dogmas.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Actually, we accept the dogmas, but not all EC’s accept the derived doctrines. Roman doctrine specifies explicitly that Mary was assumed whole - both body and soul still together - while Byzantine is explicitly that they were separately assumed.

If she was resurrected, how was the soul separate from the body?

 

[theistgal]

If she was resurrected, how was the soul separate from the body?

That would be an ecumenical matter.

 

[ConstantineTG]

That would be an ecumenical matter.

Why?

 

[Zekariya]

If she was resurrected, how was the soul separate from the body?

Also, how did she give her girdle to St Thomas if her body didn’t have her soul?

 

[tdgesq]

If she was resurrected, how was the soul separate from the body?

I guess the same question could be posed about Jesus and his resurrection. Interestingly enough though, MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS doesn’t actually state that Mary was resurrected.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I guess the same question could be posed about Jesus and his resurrection. Interestingly enough though, MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS doesn’t actually state that Mary was resurrected.

It does:

1. We must remember especially that, since the second century, the Virgin Mary has been designated by the holy Fathers as the new Eve, who, although subject to the new Adam, is most intimately associated with him in that struggle against the infernal foe which, as foretold in the protoevangelium,(44) would finally result in that most complete victory over the sin and death which are always mentioned together in the writings of the Apostle of the Gentiles.(45) Consequently, just as the glorious resurrection of Christ was an essential part and the final sign of this victory, so that struggle which was common to the Blessed Virgin and her divine Son should be brought to a close by the glorification of her virginal body, for the same Apostle says: “When this mortal thing hath put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.”(46)
2. We, who have placed our pontificate under the special patronage of the most holy Virgin, to whom we have had recourse so often in times of grave trouble, we who have consecrated the entire human race to her Immaculate Heart in public ceremonies, and who have time and time again experienced her powerful protection, are confident that this solemn proclamation and definition of the Assumption will contribute in no small way to the advantage of human society, since it redounds to the glory of the Most Blessed Trinity, to which the Blessed Mother of God is bound by such singular bonds. It is to be hoped that all the faithful will be stirred up to a stronger piety toward their heavenly Mother, and that the souls of all those who glory in the Christian name may be moved by the desire of sharing in the unity of Jesus Christ’s Mystical Body and of increasing their love for her who shows her motherly heart to all the members of this august body. And so we may hope that those who meditate upon the glorious example Mary offers us may be more and more convinced of the value of a human life entirely devoted to carrying out the heavenly Father’s will and to bringing good to others. Thus, while the illusory teachings of materialism and the corruption of morals that follows from these teachings threaten to extinguish the light of virtue and to ruin the lives of men by exciting discord among them, in this magnificent way all may see clearly to what a lofty goal our bodies and souls are destined. Finally it is our hope that belief in Mary’s bodily Assumption into heaven will make our belief in our own resurrection stronger and render it more effective.

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-xii_apc_19501101_munificentissimus-deus_en.html

 

[tdgesq]

It does:

Hmm… You are right that it does imply resurrection in the “glorification” of her body language. Nevertheless, the only dogmatic definition is this:

“**y the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.”

It makes sense to me that it was a resurrection. I’m just not sure what the problem is with the dogma assuming that is what it is referring to.**

 

[theistgal]

Why?

Sorry, that’s a joke based on the classic BBC series “Father Ted”.

 

[Zekariya]

From the Byzantine Rite Feast of the Dormition:

Apolytikion of the Dormition
In thy birth-giving, O Theotokos, thou didst keep and preserve virginity; and in thy falling-asleep thou hast not forsaken the world; for thou wast translated into life, being the Mother of Life. Wherefore, by thine intercessions, deliver our souls from death.

Kontakion of the Dormition
Verily, the Theotokos, who is ever watchful in intercessions, who is never rejected, neither tomb nor death could control. But being the Mother of Life, He Who dwelt in her ever-Virgin womb did translate her to life.

Megalynarion of the Dormition
In thee, O spotless Virgin, the laws of nature were suspended; for thy virginity was preserved in thy child-bearing, and Life is joined with death. Thou, O Theotokos, didst remain a Virgin after child-birth, and after death thou art still alive and dost ever deliver thy heritage.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hmm… You are right that it does imply resurrection in the “glorification” of her body language. Nevertheless, the only dogmatic definition is this:

“**y the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.”

It makes sense to me that it was a resurrection. I’m just not sure what the problem is with the dogma assuming that is what it is referring to.**

Glorification in Church Father speak is the heavenly state. Since it said glorification of body, it clearly means resurrection. We call Christ’s resurrected body the “Glorified Body”.

 

[Aramis]

Glorification in Church Father speak is the heavenly state. Since it said glorification of body, it clearly means resurrection. We call Christ’s resurrected body the “Glorified Body”.

Some of the Fathers speak of reception of our glorified bodies in the Resurrection in the end times.

Many saints appear posthumously with bodies - even as their physical ones lie mouldering in a crypt elsewhere.

 

[The_Serpent]

My view is that you may believe that Mary died and was buried, her soul going to heaven. She was buried, then her body was reunited with soul ans assumed into heaven. A resurrection is implied in this as well. If you read some Catholic visionaries, they support such a view. Venerable Anne Catherine Emmerich has Mary died, buried and assumed into heaven. Venerable Mary of Agreda has the same.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Some of the Fathers speak of reception of our glorified bodies in the Resurrection in the end times.

Many saints appear posthumously with bodies - even as their physical ones lie mouldering in a crypt elsewhere.

But those are apparitions. How many of them have we been able to touch just as Christ was touched after His resurrection?

Anyone who understands the theology of the Dormition would never doubt that the Theotokos is resurrected.

 

[neokarny]

Sorry, that’s a joke based on the classic BBC series “Father Ted”.

I thought that’s what you had in mind when I read your original comment.

The priest of the parish I’m soon to be moving to is amusingly enough a Father Ted.

 

[Zekariya]

“[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones…” - St Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles, 1:4 (inter A.D. 575-593).

“As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him.” - St Modestus of Jerusalem, Encomium in dormitionnem Sanctissimae Dominae nostrae Deiparae semperque Virginis Mariae (PG 86-II,3306),(ante A.D. 634).

 

[tdgesq]

Glorification in Church Father speak is the heavenly state. Since it said glorification of body, it clearly means resurrection. We call Christ’s resurrected body the “Glorified Body”.

Please read what I wrote rather than preaching to me about what the “glorified body” means. I obviously already understand that. Why does it make any difference whatsoever whether the Assumption means resurrection or not?

“[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones…” - St Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles, 1:4 (inter A.D. 575-593).

Because she died, and then her body was assumed into heaven. Seems like everybody agrees, but perhaps we can make up a problem here. That appears to be what ConstantineTG wants to do.

 

[Zekariya]

Please read what I wrote rather than preaching to me about what the “glorified body” means. I obviously already understand that. Why does it make any difference whatsoever whether the Assumption means resurrection or not?

Because she died, and then her body was assumed into heaven. Seems like everybody agrees, but perhaps we can make up a problem here. That appears to be what ConstantineTG wants to do.

The body rejoined to the soul is a resurrection.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Please read what I wrote rather than preaching to me about what the “glorified body” means. I obviously already understand that. Why does it make any difference whatsoever whether the Assumption means resurrection or not?

Because the whole point of the Dormition is to tell us of our hope of our own resurrection. Our traditions aren’t just about fabulous stories that has nothing to do with us, everything God did and is doing is for our own salvation.

 

[mikee]

never mind. Re-read it again.