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teeboy
Guest
I can clearly see Joseph’s genetic lineage in the infancy narrative.
Was Mary a descendant of David or even Jesse?
Was Mary a descendant of David or even Jesse?
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Augustine3
Guest
I remember reading somewhere regarding the Jewish custom if there was an only child in the family then that girl is required to marry her first cousin. Mary and St Joseph were first cousins thus they descended from the same tribal lineage.
Gosh I wish I remember where I read that from, possibly a bible commentary??
God bless,
Gosh I wish I remember where I read that from, possibly a bible commentary??
God bless,
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tabycat
Guest
:
:hug1:
From what I’ve read, that both Mary and Joseph were descendant from David, by different lines of descend.
:hug1:
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teeboy
Guest
Perfection
Now I know why we call it a Jesse Tree at Christmas.
I can see Joseph was a descendant of Solomon. Solomon wasn’t David’s first born.
Now I know why we call it a Jesse Tree at Christmas.
I can see Joseph was a descendant of Solomon. Solomon wasn’t David’s first born.
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tabycat
Guest
If I remember right, Joseph’s line was the legel line of decendet and Mary’s line was the bodily line. 
:harp:
:harp:
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teeboy
Guest
Legal… Does this relate to property heirship?If I remember right, Joseph’s line was the legel line of decendet and Mary’s line was the bodily line.
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thistle
Guest
Both Matthew and Luke show the genealogy of Jesus through Joseph. Neither of them show the line through Mary.
It is assumed that Mary belonged to the house of David even though the Bible does not say this.
Catholic Answers reply on this:
“Jewish genealogies followed the male line. Joseph, being Mary’s husband, was the legal father of Jesus. The legal father is on par with the real father as regards rights and duties . . . Since it was quite usual for people to marry within their clan, it can be concluded that Mary belonged to the house of David. Several early Fathers of the Church testify to this—for example, St. Ignatius, St. Irenaeus, St. Justin and Tertullian, who base their testimony on an unbroken tradition. (28-29)”
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Della
Guest
Yes, because David was the son of Jesse who is the forebear of Christ, as referred to in the prophecy quoted by St. Paul:
Rom.15[12] and further Isaiah says, “The root of Jesse shall come, he who rises to rule the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles hope.”
Kings in that time didn’t necessarily choose their firstborn as heir to the throne but rather the one he felt would make the best ruler. David’s first child by Bethsheba died soon after birth and his other son, Absolom rebelled against him and was killed. Solomon was David’s son by Bethsheba after he had taken her as his wife.
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teeboy
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Kings were annointed. The prophet took a role in Solomon’s case.
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Della
Guest
The kings of Israel were anointed, yes. I was speaking of ancient kings in general. Sorry for the confusion.
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Br.Carlo
Guest
God’s peace. While both Joseph and Mary physically descended from David, Mary was not of the royal (Solomon’s) line, but rather Nathan’s (Lk 3: 31). Christ’s kingly descent from David was through his legal sonship to Joseph. No fleshly sonship from David via Josph could have been possible, since there was a “roadblock” in the form of a curse upon the fleshly descendants of one of Solomon’s descendants–one Jeconiah or Coniah, (Jer. 22: 24-30, cf. Mt. 1: 11-12), about whom the Lord said, “no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah”. But of course, Joseph was not Jesus’ biological father. This is another of the fascinating examples of the unbelievable precision of the Holy Scriptures. No one else in history could have possibly been the Christ! Blessings, ~Br. Carlo~
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teeboy
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teeboy
Guest
I see now. Nathan is in Luke; Solomon is in Matthew.
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teeboy
Guest
Nathan had much to do with annointment of Solo mon.
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tabycat
Guest
It means line that the line that could legally claim the Kingship. It could relate to property heirship. :idea:
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teeboy
Guest
But legally he couldn’t be annointed by God. That is where Pilate came in. Crowned by Pilate.
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adrift
Guest
Where do you get the lineage of Mary? How do you know she descended from David?
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Br.Carlo
Guest
Adrift wrote: "Where do you get the lineage of Mary? How do you know she descended from David? "
Mary’s lineage is given by an interesting twist in Luke Ch. 3. Notice that in Mt. 1: 16 Joseph is given as the “son of Jacob”. But in Luke 3: 23 he is given as the “son of Heli”. What gives? Well, notice that in Luke it doesn’t use the term begat. A reasonable explanation (although not often seen in modern Catholic writings) is that Joseph was Heli’s son-in-law and that Jesus receives his connection to David though Joseph twice–once through the kingly line (Solomon, through Joseph legally) and again through the priestly line (Nathan, through Mary physically who receives her connection legally). Of the relationship between the tradional name of Joachim and Heli, as given in Luke, the Catholic Encyclopedia says: " . . . the name of Mary’s father, Heli, agrees with the name given to Our Lady’s father in a tradition founded upon the report of the Protoevangelium of James, an apocryphal Gospel which dates from the end of the second century. According to this document the parents of Mary are Joachim and Anna. Now, the name Joachim is only a variation of Heli or Eliachim, substituting one Divine name (Yahweh) for the other (Eli, Elohim)".
Mary’s lineage is given by an interesting twist in Luke Ch. 3. Notice that in Mt. 1: 16 Joseph is given as the “son of Jacob”. But in Luke 3: 23 he is given as the “son of Heli”. What gives? Well, notice that in Luke it doesn’t use the term begat. A reasonable explanation (although not often seen in modern Catholic writings) is that Joseph was Heli’s son-in-law and that Jesus receives his connection to David though Joseph twice–once through the kingly line (Solomon, through Joseph legally) and again through the priestly line (Nathan, through Mary physically who receives her connection legally). Of the relationship between the tradional name of Joachim and Heli, as given in Luke, the Catholic Encyclopedia says: " . . . the name of Mary’s father, Heli, agrees with the name given to Our Lady’s father in a tradition founded upon the report of the Protoevangelium of James, an apocryphal Gospel which dates from the end of the second century. According to this document the parents of Mary are Joachim and Anna. Now, the name Joachim is only a variation of Heli or Eliachim, substituting one Divine name (Yahweh) for the other (Eli, Elohim)".
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thistle
Guest
Did you not read post #7. Matthew and Luke show the lineage of Joseph and NOT Mary. Mary’s lineage is not in the Bible.
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Br.Carlo
Guest
Thistle, the tone of your reply to my post suggests that you think I didn’t bother to read, much less understand, what you posted earlier. Please don’t stoop to insulting me when the fact is I simply disagree with your post, understanding quite well what you said!
The fact that Jewish tradition always looks to the male line is irrelevant when you are looking for “seed”, which is precisely what Luke does in his gospel. I did not make up my “take” on Luke’s gospel, as you can see for yourself in the Catholic Encyclopedia on the subject of Mary. I admit that the interpretation of Luke’s gospel as being a genealogy of Mary is not popular today, but I know of no place where the Church has infallibly proclaimed that both Matthew’s and Luke’s genealogies are exclusively of Joseph.
What are the advantages of viewing Luke’s genealogy as that of Mary?
The fact that Jewish tradition always looks to the male line is irrelevant when you are looking for “seed”, which is precisely what Luke does in his gospel. I did not make up my “take” on Luke’s gospel, as you can see for yourself in the Catholic Encyclopedia on the subject of Mary. I admit that the interpretation of Luke’s gospel as being a genealogy of Mary is not popular today, but I know of no place where the Church has infallibly proclaimed that both Matthew’s and Luke’s genealogies are exclusively of Joseph.
What are the advantages of viewing Luke’s genealogy as that of Mary?
- This resolves the “Jacob vs. Heli” conflict. While Jacob is Joseph’s biological father, Heli is Joseph’s father-in-law, and Joseph is Heli’s son in accordance with Jewish usage (cf. 1 Sam. 24: 16).
- This provides an explanation for how someone who must be of “the seed of David” (Rom 1:23) can sit on “the throne of David” (Lk 1: 32-3) even with the cursed ancestor Jeconiah.
- This gives Scriptural support for the traditional name of Mary’s father (Joachim = Eliachim = Heli), by abbreviation after the simple substitution of one name of God (Yaweh) for another (Eli). (Thanks to the Catholic Encyclopedia for this!)
- Although Scripture expressly states in other places (cf Lk 1: 27) that Mary was of the house of David, Luke’s genealogy provides important details that “flesh out the story,” if I may be permitted a small bon mot.
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