Mary's immaculate conception and history

[BoyGenius]

When is it believed that Mary’s immaculate conception was first known about by man? Who was the first to be aware that her conception was different? How did they know? Is there a widely accepted answer by the Roman Catholic Church?

I have heard that the Immaculate Conception was something the Church contemplated for many years. With no given date, that I can refer to, a timeline, and the who’s and what for’s. However, I can at least give some Scriptural account/evidence there’s something in the midst of the Gospel which provides the scheme of Mary being born the Immaculate Conception. And oddly, Protestant’s. In fact, the words of many born-agains actually attest to this fact, unthinkingly.

When the Angel came onto Mary (i.e. the Annunciation) He said, “Hail. highly favored. The Lord is with you (translation: Immanuel - with her means with us - she was the represent soul of the entire human race to accept God’s Mission sending a Savior, His Son.)” Then when the Messenger Angel continued describing that she would be the mother of the son who will save His people. She replied saying, “Be it done onto me according to your will.” Then, as we later lead to the Visitation, here Elizabeth says, “How is it the mother of my Lord should come upon me?” In which through that conversation Mary continued, "God is my savior (Jesus - which the name the Angel decreed she should name him - for by Mary saying God has saved me, she is saying quite obviously God saved her.) And continues, “He has done great things for me.” And, “every generation will call me Blessed.”

There is the most interesting endeavor that born-agains have attested to Mary’s own words. Strangely enough. For, when Mary says, “God my savior.” And born-agains ask people if Jesus (God who saves) is their Lord and Savior, Mary said that since time immemorial.

But if God was already with her, how was she saved? Remember, the born-again believes you must announce/declare Jesus as your Lord and Savior to be saved. But yet Mary, whom the Angel recounted, was already “full of grace.” So then how is it if she never said “Jesus (God who saves) Christ is my lord and savior” before visiting Elizabeth, that she was already filled with grace? Thus does the Church orient in her mind and Magisterium that Mary was born the Immaculate Conception. And oddly, born-again Christians have a fall out with her. But neverthless, she recounts this to her as the Angel already declared she was “full of grace” - saved from the passage of sin.

 

[gazelam]

This from Edward O’Connor…

The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception [unlike the Bodily Assumption], was raised as a question about the year 1100, and was not settled until 750 years later. (Edward O’Connor, “Preface” in The Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ed. Edward D. O’Connor [Indiana: University of Notre Dame Press, 1958, 2016] vi; comment in square bracket added)

In order to become an official dogma of the Church a truth must have been revealed by God and handed down to the Church by the apostles, who are the foundation on which she is built. Yet many of the greatest theologians of the past were unable to discover the Immaculate Conception in the fonts of revelation, and some of them even considered it to be heretical. And not only the theologians, but even popes, when at various moments pressure was put upon them to decide the question, replied that “the Holy Spirit has not yet opened to His Church the secrets of this mystery” (Gregory XV, Epist. Ad monialem Regis catholici amitam, 4 June 1622) (Ibid., vi)

 

[rose321]

How can a person be righteous and blameless in the sight of God if they sin?

Respectfully opinion only >>good question, now leaving one to ponder on! Which lead one to the next question?

Who said Zechariah and Elizabeth sinned?

One who is righteous > is one who is blameless, correct?

How does one become Righteous in the eyes of the Lord?
How does God determine who is blameless?

Answer given about Zechariah and Elizabeth?>>Luke 1:6 " Both of them were righteous before God, living blamelessly according to all the Commandments and regulations of the Lord".

Luke speaking on John Baptist >>

Luke 1: 14 -15 " Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son and you will name him John. You will have joy an gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He must never drink wine or strong drink; even before his birth he will be filled with the Holy Spirit"

Verses that follows on>John Baptist 1 Luke 1:17 " With the Spirit and power of Elijah he will go before him…"
Ending of>1 Luke 1:18 " I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God"

Then Luke records the Prophecy given by Angel Gabriel>> to Zechariah about his son> John Baptist , titled in the Bible as " “Zechariah Prophecy” >1 Luke : 1: 67-80

Gabriel states about who John is within Zechariah Prophecy ?>1 Luke 1:76 " And you child will be called the Prophet of the Most High"

Thank you for that question! Peace

 

[gazelam]

Respectfully opinion only >>good question, now leaving one to ponder on! Which lead one to the next question?

Who said Zechariah and Elizabeth sinned?

One who is righteous > is one who is blameless, correct?

How does one become Righteous in the eyes of the Lord?
How does God determine who is blameless?

Answer given about Zechariah and Elizabeth?>>Luke 1:6 " Both of them were righteous before God, living blamelessly according to all the Commandments and regulations of the Lord".

Luke speaking on John Baptist >>

Luke 1: 14 -15 " Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son and you will name him John. You will have joy an gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He must never drink wine or strong drink; even before his birth he will be filled with the Holy Spirit"

Verses that follows on>John Baptist 1 Luke 1:17 " With the Spirit and power of Elijah he will go before him…"
Ending of>1 Luke 1:18 " I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God"

Then Luke records the Prophecy given by Angel Gabriel>> to Zechariah about his son> John Baptist , titled in the Bible as " “Zechariah Prophecy” >1 Luke : 1: 67-80

Gabriel states about who John is within Zechariah Prophecy ?>1 Luke 1:76 " And you child will be called the Prophet of the Most High"

Thank you for that question! Peace

This is all good. I believe that the Bible is correct stating that Zechariah and Elizabeth were living a righteous life at the time. However, I’m assuming that they had repented of past sins (however small the sins may have been). I believe that a previously wicked person can become clean/righteous in the eyes of God. (The apostle Paul is a wonderful example.) This thread is partly about whether Mary lived a sinless life. I say no because the bible states that all except Christ sinned. I believe that Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous at the time the angel appeared, but that the entire life of neither was sinless.

 

[rose321]

This is all good. I believe that the Bible is correct stating that Zechariah and Elizabeth were living a righteous life at the time. However, I’m assuming that they had repented of past sins (however small the sins may have been). I believe that a previously wicked person can become clean/righteous in the eyes of God.

Respectfully thank you for your kind reply.
For me I try never to assume, for the Apostle Luke seems to state other wise, that both Elizabeth and Zechariah were Righteous and blameless before the Lord. For the all knowing Lord knows all and as stated by the Apostle Luke is it not? That the child within Elizabeth womb was filled with the Holy Spirit, spoken by Gabriel.

Gabriel gives a long Prophecy to Zechariah of his son, that John Baptist will be a great Prophet of the Lord. 1 Luke 1:76.

There are many Biblical verses within His Spoken Word, telling us what got the Hebrew Israelites in trouble >>was that they added and subtracted from His Spoken Word, is there not?

1 Luke 1:6 " Both of them were righteous before God , living blamelessly according to all commandments and regulations of the Lord"

Both were Righteous>> before>> God>>?
Living blamelessly> seems to state they were judged by God and found Righteous and living blamelessly>

It is God>>speaking through His Angel Gabriel his messenger> stating both Elizabeth and Zechariah were Righteous. God finding both Elizabeth and Zechariah living blamelessly before Him?

For me only, who am I to state or assume this or that or otherwise?
Peace